Opening up Thailand to tourists a "potential catastrophe", wait six months urges Chula doctor

[worldfun]

5 hours ago, steelepulse said:

I went ahead and posted daily deaths for you.

you want to know why no new deaths spike seen? young people traveling & not dying. very simple truth ????

[Skallywag]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

 

He said that if Thailand allows in 100,000 tourists it was likely that 500 of these would be infected with the virus. 

The economy is getting worse daily in tourist cities.  Best to open up for anyone willing and able to travel or the results could be more devastating than the virus.   Doctors can tell you how to protect yourself and if you choose not to wear a mask and keep your hands clean and social distance, yes you could get the virus.  Likely this will not change in one year or 2 years.  Viruses never "go away" quickly, polio took almost 6 years before widely and safely in use, then another 30 years before the world was rid of polio for good.

A vaccine will ameliorate infections to a degree, yet not for everyone.  Remdesivir and other anti-virals are the answer as well as taking precautions wearing masks, sanitizing, social distancing etc..

New Normal is here, time to practice it and get on with life as best we can without government restrictions. 

[lemonwaterjoe]

5 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is what happens when borders open to tourists:

 

source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

 

 

What a <deleted>. Because France is a pure holiday destination? Dubai is one and they opened 7 weeks ago:

 

 

No second wave but a tourism industry that hass been succesfully restarted. That's it!

[worldfun]

13 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

They finally have walking street all for themselves and so why Its dead now?

because it's in renovation together with the beach in order to continue to attract the 5* jetset tourists that will never arrive but who cares only dreamt up plans counts, collect your envelope & be another forgotten brainfart

[connda]

14 minutes ago, Oldie said:

I know - the most helpful would be to stop breathing completely. But the N95 masks are still more helpful than most other masks that you can buy here. And the virus often travels in small droplets and these the mask will block.

 

The 3M N95 masks with a exhale valve may decrease the viral load you receive from an infected person (good for you, good for at risk hospital staff who should have them) but if you're infected?  You exhale unfiltered viruses right out the valve (bad for everyone else). 
Most other masks are next to useless, well except for providing the wearer with a false sense of security.  My favorite choice that I use is the plastic face shield or so-called Thai Hiso-Mask <laughs>.  Totally useless but you get to check the "I'm complying with mask mandates" check-mark at your local Big-Box Hypermart, malls, and other corporate run stores as well as any other place mandated by Thai government orders and still be able to breath. 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Swimfan said:

There is usually a lag of about 4 weeks after infection rates spike for the death rate to start to increase. in case you haven't noticed after all this time.its not like people just drop like flies after infection, but usually after a sustained attempt to keep people alive in hospital.

Cases have been rising massively since the end of June in some places (France for example) where the death rate has stabilised and not risen at all.

 

That's over a period of 8 weeks.

 

Spain is similar but with a bit more death than France although nothing like the peak a few months ago.

[poloshirt]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

When the annual flu season is just kicking-off in the countries that provide most of Thailand's tourists, it's probably not the best time to start opening the borders. The shops, hotels and bars might get a decent month or so of business, but as the virus starts spreading out of control the authorities will have no choice but to impose a lockdown again. The lockdown will seriously hurt most businesses, not just those in the tourism sector. So what do you do, give the tourism industry a brief respite at possibly enormous and unnecessary cost to the non-foreign tourist sector, which makes up 85% of Thailand's GDP remember? That doesn't make any sense to me, why would you risk inflicting great damage on the largest part of your economy just to try and boost a relatively small part of it?

u r right.

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, mr mr said:

the economic disaster about to unfold will make corona look like a common cold. there will be more thai who kill themselves than the covis. 

I hope not,but it can be a strain on people with a mortgage,school fees to pay ,feed the family. But killing  oneself would be disastrous for the rest of the families.

I look after two Thai families . The one family man and wife laid off with no salary and like most Thais don't save for the rainy day. People on minimal wages don't get enough to save. But it's thunderous at the moment and an umbrella will just get blown away in the wind.  I empathise with people in this position. 

[JusticeGB]

If 65 a day slip through and the rate of death of dirty farangs is 2% then 1.3 extra deaths a day can be added to the 58 deaths a day from road accidents. Wouldn't it just be better to ban driving than ban tourists?

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, AbeNormal said:

Including me

 

why not prop up the economy and the businesses that are struggling for a further 6 months since Thailand claims to have plenty of money, then open up when it is reasonably safe to do so

 

people will not stand for more lockdowns and curfews 

If theres no lockdown what is your suggestion to it. Speak up man.

[Zikomat]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

When the annual flu season is just kicking-off in the countries that provide most of Thailand's tourists, it's probably not the best time to start opening the borders. The shops, hotels and bars might get a decent month or so of business, but as the virus starts spreading out of control the authorities will have no choice but to impose a lockdown again. The lockdown will seriously hurt most businesses, not just those in the tourism sector. So what do you do, give the tourism industry a brief respite at possibly enormous and unnecessary cost to the non-foreign tourist sector, which makes up 85% of Thailand's GDP remember? That doesn't make any sense to me, why would you risk inflicting great damage on the largest part of your economy just to try and boost a relatively small part of it?

This is why Thailand tourism industry is done. For years.

Ironically, life is almost back to normal in many countries all over the globe. Those countries that were deemed as failed in their Covid response are now recovering fast with their economies back to growth. Meanwhile, the ‘winners’ of the Covid battle,like Thailand, seem to be stuck forever without any viable option to avoid a big economic disaster. 

[Megasin1]

Yes it would be a disaster for Thailands reputation. I believe that's because they know its rife amongst the population. Perhaps its genetic, or a dietary resistance that keeps the Thais fairly immune to Covid effects but the Government possibly knows its asymptomatic rife and if they let in tourists it will destroy them faster than a herd of gazelles. ????

[Dumbastheycome]

28 minutes ago, DeepSea said:

And yet the correlation between the March and May sections of each graph suggests not so much... Or did you conveniently overlook that?

The graphs actually support my opinion in that there are approximately 14 days delay in recorded fatalities which indeed correlates  to the recorded wave of infections.

 

[DrTuner]

26 minutes ago, worldfun said:

you want to know why no new deaths spike seen? young people traveling & not dying. very simple truth ????

That might indeed be the simplest explanation. Is there an age distribution of new diagnosed cases available?

[Destiny1990]

19 minutes ago, worldfun said:

because it's in renovation together with the beach in order to continue to attract the 5* jetset tourists that will never arrive but who cares only dreamt up plans counts, collect your envelope & be another forgotten brainfart

They wont party themselves in WS because they know its a complete rip-off so now its dead. Better bulldozer the encroaching side so the cars driving through have nice seaviews.

[CALSinCM]

1 hour ago, Swimfan said:

And what drives the increase in testing ?

Fear. 

But in places like the US that fear can kill you.  You have the sniffles or a scratchy throat so you go get tested.  The test comes back positive, so suddenly you go from MSM induced fear to complete panic because you think you're going to die from the Killer Covid for sure.  So you go to the hospital complaining of sniffles or a scratchy throat, and now shortness of breath (due to your new panic).  The hospital who have stopped treating regular patients and who desperately need income revenue admit you.  Of course now you're really have shortness of breath (panic), sweaty (panic), elevated blood pressure as well as temperature (panic) and you're talked into be placed on a respirator.  Then you die.

Self-fulfilling prophesy. 

I've had a sore throat, sniffles, and cough - and I stayed home. I sure didn't go to the hospital.  Imagine a farang popping positive in Thailand?  (Panic!)  I was infected by the community of Thais around me who had the same symptoms (I don't live in a farang community and having interacted with another farang for weeks).  One of them close to me (but not a family member) went to the hospital.  The hospital didn't test them but told them it was a cold and go back home.  And voila!!! Thailand has the one of the lowest infection rates in the world. 

So why would anyone who isn't deathly sick want to get tested?
Fear.

[chilli42]

6 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is what happens when borders open to tourists:

 

source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

 

Death rates continue down in all the countries where Covid first spread.  Sticking with France, the death rate is 0.000452% of the population.  How much more time do you need to know this is a much less deadly virus than many we have had in the past?  Stop watching CNN for a while and you will be all better.

[Mung]

6 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is what happens when borders open to tourists:

 

source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

 

Well the thing with that is, many countries have opened up their borders with great success for their economy and minimal case increases, not to mention very few deaths. Yes the deaths do lag the infection rate at around 10-16 days, yet your graph shows cases increasing 6 weeks ago, and yet French deaths haven't increased yet..

We now better understand this virus and so we understand the best treatment, doses of medicine, timing and so forth. We have become a lot better at treating it than we were at the start of the pandemic.

Also, take a look at the UK cases, we opened up the borders a good 6-7 weeks ago now. Yes a very slight increase, but it is under control and our deaths are for sure under control. However our economy hasn't imploded as much as it would be if we were closed, and people can live a fairly normal life coming and going. There are not businesses going under, owners of restaurants committing suicide; or at least not to the same extent as there in LOS 



 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Mung

[utalkin2me]

2 hours ago, Swimfan said:

There is usually a lag of about 4 weeks after infection rates spike for the death rate to start to increase. in case you haven't noticed after all this time.its not like people just drop like flies after infection, but usually after a sustained attempt to keep people alive in hospital.

You mean like the lag we are currently seeing in Sweden? Better or worse than that lag?

 

Go ahead and look at Sweden's daily cases from 4 weeks ago, July 26th or so, then look at daily deaths. 

 

Let me know how that goes. 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Dr Thira Woratanarat, head of Chulalongkorn University hospital's medical faculty, said that the country should wait six months to avoid a potential catastrophe. 

He's talking sense, he has the nations health at heart, not the tourism ministers self interests.

If tourism is allowed to come back some infections will as he say's slip through the net, and when they do it's back to square one, and Thailand will be dead for sure.

Better to tell the Phuket businesses to lower prices so that Thais can afford to go there safely.

 

[Percy P]

29 minutes ago, connda said:

The 3M N95 masks with a exhale valve may decrease the viral load you receive from an infected person (good for you, good for at risk hospital staff who should have them) but if you're infected?  You exhale unfiltered viruses right out the valve (bad for everyone else). 
Most other masks are next to useless, well except for providing the wearer with a false sense of security.  My favorite choice that I use is the plastic face shield or so-called Thai Hiso-Mask <laughs>.  Totally useless but you get to check the "I'm complying with mask mandates" check-mark at your local Big-Box Hypermart, malls, and other corporate run stores as well as any other place mandated by Thai government orders and still be able to breath. 

To wear any type of mask is better then not wearing one at all. Handkerchief around the face is excellent. Can also be washed easier.

[Mung]

9 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

You mean like the lag we are currently seeing in Sweden? Better or worse than that lag?

 

Go ahead and look at Sweden's daily cases from 4 weeks ago, July 26th or so, then look at daily deaths. 

 

Let me know how that goes. 

I agree and the same has occurred here in the UK. However there is something to consider, there are many variables as to why the death rate is down but there is one major factor. I think that because we have gone through Spring and Summer, people have had their houses, apartments and whatever else ventilated with windows open. Having the air circulating means that the virus will not hang around in the air inside of rooms. It has been seen that much like with poison, the servility of infection is largely down to the viral load or 'dose' somebody gets. When the seasons change and people are again within enclosed spaces for long periods of time, it might be that death rates go back up again. Also in the Summer people are getting more vitamin D which has been shown to be a huge driver in fighting off the virus, due to it regulating immune response. 
There are many factors like with how we understand and treat infected people now, but the next few weeks and months for Europe will be telling to see how things are in the colder months. 

[CALSinCM]

2 minutes ago, Percy P said:

To wear any type of mask is better then not wearing one at all. Handkerchief around the face is excellent. Can also be washed easier.

So says the fearful.  

[dogfish180]

So what is different in 6 months compared to next month? ????

[ifeelitall]

6 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is what happens when borders open to tourists:

 

source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

 

Maybe not. The same happened in Japan after it closed its borders. Correlation ≠ causation.

[spidermike007]

Have you ever noticed that the only people who advocate for closure, economic shutdown, keeping the borders locked down and preventing foreigners from coming into the country, are people that are collecting a full salary, with major benefits?

 

A message to this doctor. Keeping the country closed another 6 months will be a complete catastrophe for millions of people who are not earning the kind of money you are earning you simple minded man. You are blind. You have no compassion, only fear and timidity. 

 

The country needs to be open tomorrow to everyone from any country, who is willing to undergo quarantine. It is zero risk for Thailand if they follow protocols, there's no need to have foreigners go to the consulate to beg for permission. Just buy a ticket get a covid test, and jump on a plane. If you are willing to pay an exorbitant amount of money to be locked up for two weeks in a hotel room. Anybody who's willing to do that should be allowed with open arms. 

 

The panic mongers should be jailed. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by spidermike007

[Jumbo1968]

Catch 22 situation damned if you do damned if you don’t open up to Tourism.

[bluejets]

They have to be nuts opening up anything until a proven vaccine is available and proof of vaccination supplied.

As it stands, Aus won't be opening up international travel anyhow until the above.

[Sumarianson]

Fear monger! If the world does not open up then many will die because of the consequence and the untested vaccine with no comeback. This was created to achieve an agenda as in the documentary with the higest viewing figures of all time despite the cronies of the NWO banning it on FB, YouTube and oyher platforms "plandemic Indoctrination" available to watch on BitChue or LondonReal for free. Essential viewing for truth seekers. All information in the documentary is independantly verifiable wiyh sources supplied. 

Trump sacked Fauchi the day before it came out on the 18th Aug. There is a also a sealed indictement for treason on Fauchi raised by Trump a few days before the release of documentary. Know whst is really going on and how you are being manipulated. 

[Globaleyes]

6 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

this is what happens when borders open to tourists:

 

source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

 

But opening the borders did not happen in isolation (no pun intended).  There were more tests conducted, and France generally started opening up more internally.