3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

My view the amnesty is not going to be extended.

The reason , their appears to have been a perception change in immigration that although visa extended they now view these as Overstay amnesty.

The reintroduction of the 30 day Embassy letters.

 

The tentative proposals to open Phuket to tourism. If Phuket is opened then the amnesty needs to end , otherwise the tourist who arrive will automatically fall within the amnesty. 

If Phuket opens and amnesty extended how is it possible to police any restrictions on incoming tourists. No restrictions are in place at present for foreigners in Thailand regarding quarantine

 

"If Phuket is opened then the amnesty needs to end , otherwise the tourist who arrive will automatically fall within the amnesty."

 

How? The amnesty is for people whose visa ran out after 26th March. I don't see any connection to new tourists coming in.

 

2 hours ago, FlyingThai said:

 

It doesn't matter what the Immigration Department thinks or decides in regards to the optics of the extensions. The decisions are made by the government on cabinet level. Immigration are just people with a desk and a few stamps carrying out orders.

 

The Phuket project is a pipedream that's no going to happen. And as far as the embassy letters are concerned, almost no IO knows about the arrangement of the elusive extension stamp until Sep 26th. Just because one embassy solicits supporting letters on their mailer doesn't mean anything.

 

 

But the guy who is ultimately the Head of immigration will be a Cabinet member so will be involved in the decision making & won't want his department to lose face after being so public about this being the last extension. 

 

Plus there's the very psychological "6 Month" mark, if they wouldn't let long term stayers go 180 days without doing a 90 day report (at CW in Person) to confirm their address, do you really think they'll give people an automatic extension to stay without at least visiting an IO office to report their details...

 

I think far more likely... 

1. Everybody who is here on a Non-O for reason of having a Thai spouse or child will be able to get a/additional 60 day extension (This is already being mentioned by a few IOs)
2. Anybody on Visa Exempt or a Tourist Visa who can show that they have Thai spouse or child will be be able to get a/additional 60 day extension
3. Everybody who is on a Non-B, Ed, etc... Visa will be able to extend for 90 days in-country  
4. Anybody on Visa Exempt or a Tourist Visa who can show that they cannot get back to the country they normally resident in will get a 30 day extension if they can get a letter from their embassy (Also think that more & more embassies will issue these) 
5. All Retirees on a Non-O / Non-OA will be expected to get a 12 month extension, hopefully there will be some flexibility on the financial requirements, maybe a requirement to prove you've got the income/deposit after 3 months or go out to get another Non-O/OA, hoping borders will be open by then.  
6. This leaves people on Visa Exempt / Tourist Visa with no ties to Thailand, I think those who can get a supporting letter from their Embassy will be able to get a 30 day extension, those who can't will either have to convert to a different Visa, leave or be on Overstay,  These guys can't really afford to wait until 15th September as the key date is to get the conversion request in by 11th September (again, Immigration have been making this clear).

I hope I'm right about the 1st 5 of these & only 1/2 right on number 6 and everybody can find a way to stay but it is really only beholden on Thailand to look after the guys with family ties here so wouldn't be surprised if that is their focus. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by Mike Teavee

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

But the guy who is ultimately the Head of immigration will be a Cabinet member so will be involved in the decision making & won't want his department to lose face after being so public about this being the last extension. 

The head of immigration is not a member of the cabinet that are all ministers. The Interior Ministry is responsible for issuing orders and notices related to stays in the country.

17 hours ago, Ganesh108 said:

...

Non-immigrant B, last entry into Thailand 13th March, so the 90 day entry stamp ended on 10th June. Visa validity ran out on 18th July, so on amnesty now. Have not gone for any extension yet.

 

Not married, all income from abroad. Age well above 50, so I guess I could go for a RV in theory, but then retired I am not. Any Google search would find me and my profession in a split second, and part of the work is done in Thailand. Not planning to retire anytime soon. I don't even use a Thai bank account, all banking is done from Singapore. 

 

I'm based in Bangkok, but don't have an IO really, as I have never extended my 90 day entry stamp, flying in and out of Thailand up to 10 times a year. As I will be in Phuket shortly, I've booked an immigration date there for next week. 

 

In short, I may be in a somewhat unusual category.

Hi Ganesh,

Yes indeed somewhat of unusual category you are in.

It looks that your only option at this moment (the situation might change as the Amnesty deadline approaches) is to apply through an Agent for a 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

Obviously there isn't enough time left for you to season the required funds for such application and not sure whether you would be able to apply for the German Embassy issued income letter as alternative to provide evidence of your finances.  So that only leaves the Fixer Agent option who could 'magically' - but for a fee - make the 800K and the 2 months seasoning requirement of those funds, disappear. 

You have time till final days of the Amnesty to actually go for that option (because in mean time alternative options might be announced by Thai Government/Immigration), but it would be recommended to already do some Agent searches/queries in case you would have to opt for that Agent solution at the last minute because of lack of other possibilities.

There are a few IO officers saying it'll be extended until the end of the year.  From what I've read.  But there were also IOs saying there would be no extension in July.  So we'll see.  Bottom line, have a plan B. If we must leave, we must.  It's not like Thailand is very exciting right now.  But for safety reasons and costs, I'd like to stay.  My feeling is it'll be extended.  Borders are closed and many countries are extending until 2021.  And from what I've seen , each country pretty much follows what others are doing.  I hope it's extended, but if not, I'll do what I need to do.  Hopefully more countries open to tourists, like Vietnam.  

28 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Ganesh,

Yes indeed somewhat of unusual category you are in.

It looks that your only option at this moment (the situation might change as the Amnesty deadline approaches) is to apply through an Agent for a 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.

Obviously there isn't enough time left for you to season the required funds for such application and not sure whether you would be able to apply for the German Embassy issued income letter as alternative to provide evidence of your finances.  So that only leaves the Fixer Agent option who could 'magically' - but for a fee - make the 800K and the 2 months seasoning requirement of those funds, disappear. 

You have time till final days of the Amnesty to actually go for that option (because in mean time alternative options might be announced by Thai Government/Immigration), but it would be recommended to already do some Agent searches/queries in case you would have to opt for that Agent solution at the last minute because of lack of other possibilities.

Thank you, Peter

 

Actually I have an appointment with Phuket immi on 8th. But as I was in Bangkok airport today morning, I got a mail from them, saying I should come over 5 days before that date to present documents. That's tomorrow. Luckily, I'm in Phuket now. I guess it's because I had to enter the name of the company I work for on the appointment application (online), but as the company is based in Germany, they have no record of them or me. As mentioned, I have no WP, the income comes entirely from Germany, and I have never extended my 90 days' stamp.

 

So I'll trundle over there tomorrow, with a company letter and other stuff in tow. Any reasonable person would see that I actually help Thailand make millions of Baht, but ... let's see, if they're reasonable. From similarly odd cases I know that they could give an "Under Consideration until ..." stamp, which could buy 3 months time or so. 

 

As for agents: I know Indians in Bangkok who are on retirement visas but are actually working. The agent's fee is 12k, down from 15k last year. Of course, the 800k in the bank don't exist but appear "by magic".  I don't want to give away more, as not to get anyone into trouble. Maybe I'll have to go the agent way, but I take it day by day.   

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by Ganesh108
correction

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

But the guy who is ultimately the Head of immigration will be a Cabinet member so will be involved in the decision making & won't want his department to lose face after being so public about this being the last extension. 

 

Plus there's the very psychological "6 Month" mark, if they wouldn't let long term stayers go 180 days without doing a 90 day report (at CW in Person) to confirm their address, do you really think they'll give people an automatic extension to stay without at least visiting an IO office to report their details...

 

I think far more likely... 

1. Everybody who is here on a Non-O for reason of having a Thai spouse or child will be able to get a/additional 60 day extension (This is already being mentioned by a few IOs)
2. Anybody on Visa Exempt or a Tourist Visa who can show that they have Thai spouse or child will be be able to get a/additional 60 day extension
3. Everybody who is on a Non-B, Ed, etc... Visa will be able to extend for 90 days in-country  
4. Anybody on Visa Exempt or a Tourist Visa who can show that they cannot get back to the country they normally resident in will get a 30 day extension if they can get a letter from their embassy (Also think that more & more embassies will issue these) 
5. All Retirees on a Non-O / Non-OA will be expected to get a 12 month extension, hopefully there will be some flexibility on the financial requirements, maybe a requirement to prove you've got the income/deposit after 3 months or go out to get another Non-O/OA, hoping borders will be open by then.  
6. This leaves people on Visa Exempt / Tourist Visa with no ties to Thailand, I think those who can get a supporting letter from their Embassy will be able to get a 30 day extension, those who can't will either have to convert to a different Visa, leave or be on Overstay,  These guys can't really afford to wait until 15th September as the key date is to get the conversion request in by 11th September (again, Immigration have been making this clear).

I hope I'm right about the 1st 5 of these & only 1/2 right on number 6 and everybody can find a way to stay but it is really only beholden on Thailand to look after the guys with family ties here so wouldn't be surprised if that is their focus. 

 

 

 

 

Taiwan also had the 180 day  rule but as far as I know they just extended there's,they also previously said there would be no more extensions but that changed.

6 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

There's an indication in this article that it really might happen:

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/open-letter-from-long-stay-tourist-in-phuket-spurs-action-from-prime-minister-77181.php

 

“We are seeking a way to help the German man, and similar cases, to stay in Thailand and extend their visas. We want them to stay,” he added.

Actually, ignore this. He's 68 so would be entitled to a retirement visa. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion - sorry.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by edwardandtubs

9 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Actually, ignore this. He's 68 so would be entitled to a retirement visa.

I am not sure entitled is the correct word to use. He would still have to meet the financial requirements and first apply for a non immigrant visa to apply for a one year extension of stay.

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not sure entitled is the correct word to use. He would still have to meet the financial requirements and first apply for a non immigrant visa to apply for a one year extension of stay.

It's unlikely in the extreme that the Thai government is going to step in to help low income old foreigners.

I think the German's open letter will help a lot to extend the amnesty.  The PM even read it and now has his attention and they're looking into it.  I hope I can stay.  I just want to stay in one place and be safe.  

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by JacksSmirkingRevenge

12 minutes ago, JacksSmirkingRevenge said:

I think the German's open letter will help a lot to extend the amnesty.  The PM even read it and now has his attention and they're looking into it.  I hope I can stay.  I just want to stay in one place and be safe.  

Do you really think Prayuth wants foreigners who are too skint to meet the retirement visa requirements staying in Thailand? If anything the German's story is going to make him realise the urgency of clearing these people out so they don't become a burden.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by edwardandtubs

4 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Do you really think Prayuth wants foreigners who are too skint to meet the retirement visa requirements staying in Thailand? If anything the German's story is going to make him realise the urgency of clearing these people out so they don't become a burden.

 

Why should someone who maybe wants to spend 3-4 months per year in Thailand put 800k Baht in a Thai bank? Current circumstances are unprecedented, so maybe he might spend 6 months here. What harm does a person do who maybe "only" spends 800-1000 Baht/day in Thailand? (above the average Thai income). I don't think he steals his neighbour's chickens or plucks his pak boong.

      

2 hours ago, Daithi85 said:

Taiwan also had the 180 day  rule but as far as I know they just extended there's,they also previously said there would be no more extensions but that changed.

Does Taiwan make you do a 90 day report or similar (genuine question)... 

 

Thailand is the only country I know that makes you do this but I've only lived for any period of time in Singapore where we had to report address changes within 1 week otherwise no need to inform them of anything. 

 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The head of immigration is not a member of the cabinet that are all ministers. The Interior Ministry is responsible for issuing orders and notices related to stays in the country.

So Thailand Immigration exists completely out of the scope of any of the Ministers? 

 

I find that hard to believe, one of the Ministers will have a responsibility for Immigration, it's that person who's "Ultimately" Head of Immigration not the person who has that as their job title, they are the person that has that job title's boss.

 

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by Mike Teavee

18 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

So Thailand Immigration exists completely out of the scope of any of the Ministers? 

The Immigration Bureau is under the Royal Thai Police and they are currently under a deputy PM.

The BOI won't be happy about this....
 

 

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

But the guy who is ultimately the Head of immigration will be a Cabinet member so will be involved in the decision making & won't want his department to lose face after being so public about this being the last extension. 

 

Plus there's the very psychological "6 Month" mark, if they wouldn't let long term stayers go 180 days without doing a 90 day report (at CW in Person) to confirm their address, do you really think they'll give people an automatic extension to stay without at least visiting an IO office to report their details...

That's incorrect. The Immigration Chief isn't a minister and therefore not part of the cabinet.

 

As far as the report of address goes remember that tourists usually stay at a hotel, resort or guest house and as such they report the foreigners whereabouts frequently via TM.30 form.

25 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

That's incorrect. The Immigration Chief isn't a minister and therefore not part of the cabinet.

 

As far as the report of address goes remember that tourists usually stay at a hotel, resort or guest house and as such they report the foreigners whereabouts frequently via TM.30 form.

In the posts immediately above, Joe has established that Immigration is a division of the Thai Police force which is part of the Deputy PM's portfolio of responsibilities so it will be he who is representing them there. 

 

Hotels report your whereabouts on check-in & that's the end of it, it's logically no different to my landlord reporting when I moved into my condo so why do I need to do a 90 day report... And besides, there are lots of long term stayers who live in hotels, resorts, guest houses etc... that still need to do their 90 day reports. 

 

The fact is that existing laws don't allow Tourists to continuously stay for more than 90 days* so Tourists do not need to report, nothing to do with Hotels having already reported them etc... We are in unprecedented times hence long term stayers were sort of given an amnesty on not doing reports (and got a stamp in their passport saying they were late but not fined for the privilege) but they were insistent that we do not miss another one so I wouldn't be surprised if they expect everybody who's staying to report to immigration in some capacity.

 

 

*NB Technically Thailand Elite is a tourist visa that allows you to stay more than 90 days, but TE members need to do a 90 day report if they do so.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by Mike Teavee

4 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

It's unlikely in the extreme that the Thai government is going to step in to help low income old foreigners.

This guy is a 68 year old from Germany. Even in the worst case he's drawing a pension of ~ 1200 EUR a month which is more than enough to get by confortably in Thailand. Hardly qualifies as low income.

 

We're not talking about a retirement visa here. He doesn't want to retire in this country. Thailand wants, let alone urgently needs revenue. Insisting on complicated visa rules is just silly in this context. You can either have revenue and keep some citizens fed or point to the law and shrug shoulders.

 

Judging by your posts you sound very unhappy. Could it be that you're just grumpy that you had to jump through hoops and now hate to see Thailand being lenient on others in order to keep some revenue stream going?

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

In the posts immediately above, Joe has established that Immigration is a division of the Thai Police force which is part of the Deputy PM's portfolio of responsibilities so it will be he who is representing them there. 

 

Hotels report your whereabouts on check-in & that's the end of it, it's logically no different to my landlord reporting when I moved into my condo so why do I need to do a 90 day report... And besides, there are lots of long term stayers who live in hotels, resorts, guest houses etc... that still need to do their 90 day reports.

The Deputy PM is a lapdog of Gen. Prayuth and doesn't care what the Police Generals think.

 

You're talking about red tape. I'm talking about practicality and national security. Fact is that tourists staying at hotels are regularly being reported and that's all what a government needs from a public policy perspective. It's a non-issue except for some expat foreigners with a bruised ego who are now disgruntled because others have to deal with less of said red tape than they had or have to do.

1 hour ago, FlyingThai said:

The Deputy PM is a lapdog of Gen. Prayuth and doesn't care what the Police Generals think.

 

You're talking about red tape. I'm talking about practicality and national security. Fact is that tourists staying at hotels are regularly being reported and that's all what a government needs from a public policy perspective. It's a non-issue except for some expat foreigners with a bruised ego who are now disgruntled because others have to deal with less of said red tape than they had or have to do.

All of the ministers will take into consideration what Immigration, RTP, TAT, Budget/Finance etc... have to say & will make a balanced decision based on all of these...  In fact I'd be shocked if the heads of these haven't presented their cases to the cabinet in order for them to make that decision.

 

2nd Point, I'm talking about fact, not red tape... There is absolutely no difference between a tourist staying in a hotel & a long term visa holder staying there... The Hotel registers them on the TM30 system when they check in & that's it, if they don't register in the next place they're still registered there even after they've checked out, it's the responsibility of the next place to register them there... 

 

My extension took a total of 4-5 hours this year (including the trip to/from CW), my agent deals with all the red tape, I just paid them 7,000 THB & spent 30 minutes going through the various stages at CW.  I would be very surprised if many people could (100% legitimately) get through the extension process with less red tape / quicker than that but good luck to them if they can, no bruised ego here, I'm very happy with how things went this year.   

 

 

Back to my point, just because immigration does not have the final say doesn't mean that their views won't be heard & taken into consideration, Immigration have made their views clear so if it were me I wouldn't rely on the fact that the final decision is not theirs but look at what other options I had (Which everybody not on PR or a Citizen should regularly do anyway as you never know when it will be you in a similar situation).  

 

Here's to everybody getting speedy & successful extensions, I hope (am confident) that the vast majority of people who want to stay will find a way, especially people with lives/families here or who work in a 3rd Country so have no real option to return to their home country... But I don't think comments along the lines of "Don't worry, it's not immigration's decision so ignore what they say, I can guarantee there will be another automatic extension" particularly help.

 

Oh & here's to international travel getting to some kind of "Normal" soon, I know most guys reading this thread are looking at how they can stay but some of us are stuck here in a different kind of way (can't get back in if we leave) & haven't seen our families in our home country for a long time (a year next month) but that's the subject for other threads so will say no more here.

 

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by Mike Teavee

If it is up to immigration, there is a 0% chance of the amnesty being extended. Since it is up to the cabinet and NOT immigration, I give it a 50-50 chance of being extended.

Again Thailand would look very bad if there is a panic exit on 26 sept.

It already look like bad business, scare people to go the agent way...

 

Again Farangs here are covid free ; they spend money ; no outside tourist anytime soon... What's the  problem to allow everybody already here to stay without hassle until at least end of year ???

 

It looks like bad business already. They could just annonce long amnesty, pay money direct to immigration (2000 per month would be a good deal for both part), period.

 

My guess though is they will not want to abandon the agent / money under table way, so they will make it complicated, last minute and immigration too (as since a few years). Not great business.

But if they apply the 26 exit, wow, image will be seriously damaged. Not human, only country to do that, and stupid business... no, Thailand does not do that... I mean old Thailand ???? 

 

Just do good business : 2000 bahts per month, pay direct x months, max 6 months or 1 year. Everybody win. Thailand looks great.

Could be very important to send email as proposed.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/open-letter-from-long-stay-tourist-in-phuket-spurs-action-from-prime-minister-77181.php

 

"

To gain clear feedback directly from other long-stay tourists wanting to stay in Thailand, the officer at the PDMU invited such tourists to email a clear description of their situation. By arrangement, such tourists can send their emails to [email protected]. The Phuket News will forward all relevant emails directly to the PDMU. Emails must include contact details and the Subject line must say, “Please let me stay”.

People were urged to send their emails as soon as practically possible.

“We have no deadline for receiving these emails, but the PDMU will report its findings directly to the Prime Minister, and this will need to be done soon,” the officer said."

 

 

6 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Could be very important to send email as proposed.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/open-letter-from-long-stay-tourist-in-phuket-spurs-action-from-prime-minister-77181.php

 

"

To gain clear feedback directly from other long-stay tourists wanting to stay in Thailand, the officer at the PDMU invited such tourists to email a clear description of their situation. By arrangement, such tourists can send their emails to [email protected]. The Phuket News will forward all relevant emails directly to the PDMU. Emails must include contact details and the Subject line must say, “Please let me stay”.

People were urged to send their emails as soon as practically possible.

“We have no deadline for receiving these emails, but the PDMU will report its findings directly to the Prime Minister, and this will need to be done soon,” the officer said."

 

 

We want them to stay says the pdmu,that's good enough for me.id say a decision to extend has been probably been made already.

8 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Again Thailand would look very bad if there is a panic exit on 26 sept.

It already look like bad business, scare people to go the agent way...

 

Again Farangs here are covid free ; they spend money ; no outside tourist anytime soon... What's the  problem to allow everybody already here to stay without hassle until at least end of year ???

Agreed on the solution but as far as the optics are concerned I disagree.

 

I heard many times over the years that "Thailand looks bad because it does this and that to curtail foreigners". In the end Thailand has been teflon to all of this. Nobody cares, people are still flocking to the Kingdom in droves. And they will return as soon as the opportunity arises. Is it bad business? Absolutely by the merits of it. Is it a PR nightmare? Absolutely not, this will be forgotten about quickly especially since every other country implements their own insane laws these days.

 

Those who wish to live or stay short term in Asia and especially South East Asia find no way around Thailand for a variety of reasons. There's simply no alternative that tops TH with it's mix of affordability/infrastructure/entertainment/attractions/multiculturalism (and those who constantly bring up Vietnam, Philippines, Laos and Cambodia... please! There is no comparison as infrastructure in all of these countries sucks throughout the bank).

 

There is no need for a mass panic/exit on the 26th SEP. People don't need to wait to leave on the very last day and have over three weeks to plan and initiate a return option as of today. However: IMHO Thailand should just decide NOW to extend the stay permits until January 15 2021 (DEC31 is impractical because traveling over the holidays isn't very attractive and a way to cash in on seasonal travel). These last second extensions 10-14 days before the deadline expires aren't practical. If there is any obligation to pay for an extension that would be fine but having everyone once again trek to immigration for this is another logistical disaster in this whole rubber stamp system.

Edited September 2, 20205 yr by FlyingThai
Typo

15 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Does Taiwan make you do a 90 day report or similar (genuine question)... 

 

Thailand is the only country I know that makes you do this but I've only lived for any period of time in Singapore where we had to report address changes within 1 week otherwise no need to inform them of anything. 

 

Last year in Vietnam, a law was passed requiring tourists to get an extension from Immigration every 30 days via an agent. The law went into effect July 2020. So someone in Vietnam on a 90 day tourist visa would have to report to Immigration twice. (See video).  There is no retirement visa scheme in Vietnam so people had lived there for years on tourist visas.  I have second-hand information that under Covid, tourist visa costs that were once $300 to $400/year are now $1500/year.

The Philippines allows tourists to stay in country for 36 months without leaving. Tourists must go to Immigration every 1, 2, or 6 months for an extension.  The 6 month extension can only be done twice, so most report to Immigration every 2 months.

 

The Philippines has a retirement scheme, but most retire there under tourist visas.  Under Covid, those approaching 36 months of stay on tourist visas are leaving the Philippines, terrified to be on overstay with Duterte in power.

 

https://youtu.be/xVKZRQAHXgU

54 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

The Philippines has a retirement scheme, but most retire there under tourist visas.

Actually, I think most get married and then get a free one year stay on arrival, and then just travel home or abroad on vacation once a year.  No 90 day reporting or anything like that.  Much easier than Thailand.

12 hours ago, Sambotte said:

Could be very important to send email as proposed.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/open-letter-from-long-stay-tourist-in-phuket-spurs-action-from-prime-minister-77181.php

 

"

To gain clear feedback directly from other long-stay tourists wanting to stay in Thailand, the officer at the PDMU invited such tourists to email a clear description of their situation. By arrangement, such tourists can send their emails to [email protected]. The Phuket News will forward all relevant emails directly to the PDMU. Emails must include contact details and the Subject line must say, “Please let me stay”.

People were urged to send their emails as soon as practically possible.

“We have no deadline for receiving these emails, but the PDMU will report its findings directly to the Prime Minister, and this will need to be done soon,” the officer said."

 

 

I think we should all send emails.  Be sincere and honest.  I think we have valid points to stay.  No matter what, we are here already and contributing to a country with no tourists coming anytime soon.  I don't see why they would want us out by September 26.  So I plan to send an email and by respectful and honest and sincere.  The more people, the better.