UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

Does Shetland want independence?

The Movement took part in the 1989 Scottish Constitutional Convention. A movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

Yeah it says autonomy not independence.

And the only way the Shetlands or Orkney will get anywhere near greater autonomy is if they vote for an independent Scotland.

Are you starting to see how flawed your argument is yet?

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

Does Shetland want independence?

The Movement took part in the 1989 Scottish Constitutional Convention. A movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

Good on them, because clearly they are not satisfied with the current arrangements, as are most Scots, but this is probably an amplification of that dissatisfaction. 

I would like to see it expanded to some sort of federation of the isles, including the outer and inner Hebrides, plus also a lot more decision making made at local levels across all of Scotland. 

 

As has been pointed out many times, independence is about self determination, not about adopting the SNP as our future. If we cannot spell out now the shape of a new, better, more fair Scotland, when is the right time? The Shetlanders simply recognise that change is coming fast - the time is right to flex the muscles and let it be known that they won't simply be swept along with the decisions made in the central belt. 

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

Does Shetland want independence?

The Movement took part in the 1989 Scottish Constitutional Convention. A movement called Wir Shetland was launched in October 2015 to secede from the rest of Scotland in favour of becoming either a Crown Dependency or a British Overseas Territory, as a means of achieving greater autonomy for the Shetland Isles.

2015, indyref1 recently dead in the water, clearly the prospect of the status quo was not palatable, especially as the promises made by London to stay increasingly were revealed to be lies. The perfect time to start to explore better than their present arrangements with the UK. Hopefully a sensible Scottish government will recognise what London arrogance failed to address.

[izod10]

So full marks to the Shetland Islanders for taking the gloves off. Unwilling to surrender their oil, their gas and their fisheries to a Bolshevist government run from the distant lowlands by a crew of Red Clydesiders and republicans, councillors have voted by 18 to 2 to explore becoming a Channel Islands-style Crown Dependency. They may be a numerically small part of the present Scottish population, but losing their profitable natural resources would inflict another, possibly unsustainable, hole in an independent Scotland’s capability to survive.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

So full marks to the Shetland Islanders for taking the gloves off. Unwilling to surrender their oil, their gas and their fisheries to a Bolshevist government run from the distant lowlands by a crew of Red Clydesiders and republicans, councillors have voted by 18 to 2 to explore becoming a Channel Islands-style Crown Dependency. They may be a numerically small part of the present Scottish population, but losing their profitable natural resources would inflict another, possibly unsustainable, hole in an independent Scotland’s capability to survive.

 So you support the right of the Shetland Islanders to determine their own future?

 

How do you reconcile that with your desire to deny that right to the rest of Scotland!

[izod10]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 So you support the right of the Shetland Islanders to determine their own future?

 

How do you reconcile that with your desire to deny that right to the rest of Scotland!

Ah! the man itself.

  Who is denying anything, Boris is stalling he has to give them the vote,has to,even the English are in full,full agreement,in fact they demand it

[bendejo]

I'm not informed on this situation, so I'm asking in curiosity: if Scotland were to secede from UK, is there any sort of guarantee there would be a successful agreement for EU membership?  A newly independent nation is going to need "friends."

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

I'm not informed on this situation, so I'm asking in curiosity: if Scotland were to secede from UK, is there any sort of guarantee there would be a successful agreement for EU membership?  A newly independent nation is going to need "friends."

 

 

no, there is no guarantee

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

I'm not informed on this situation, so I'm asking in curiosity: if Scotland were to secede from UK, is there any sort of guarantee there would be a successful agreement for EU membership?  A newly independent nation is going to need "friends."

 

 

No guarantee at all, but the mood music from the eu to date has been encouraging. Also, although not actually a member in its own right, Scotland has been a participating part of the eu for decades so it already meets standards and obligations. 

 

However, one thing to bear in mind is whether Scotland wants to return to the fold, or how they should approach future membership should they decide to return. 

[nemo38]

The Orkneys and Shetlands have killed any chance for Scottish independence saying they would want independence from an independent Scotland. That would make Scotland non-viable financially, if it wasn't already.

 

Given how much the Covid crisis sucked out of the world economy it won't matter anyway. Our real problems will eclipse luxury concepts.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1334720/nicola-sturgeon-orkney-independence-referendum-vote-scotland-shetland-islands-snp-scottis

 

 

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed. 

 

[RuamRudy]

I am sure we will all raise a glass of rum punch today to wish our Barbadian friends well as they choose to become sever ties with the UK and become a republic.

 

Barbados to become Republic, remove Queen as Head of State in 2021

 

"Barbados has announced its intention to become a republic and remove Britain’s Queen Elizabeth as head of state by November next year.

"[Governor-General] said the administration of Prime Minister Mia Mottley, will take the “next logical step” to make Barbados into a republic in time for the country’s 55th anniversary of independence in November 2021."

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I am sure we will all raise a glass of rum punch today to wish our Barbadian friends well as they choose to become sever ties with the UK and become a republic.

 

Barbados to become Republic, remove Queen as Head of State in 2021

 

"Barbados has announced its intention to become a republic and remove Britain’s Queen Elizabeth as head of state by November next year.

"[Governor-General] said the administration of Prime Minister Mia Mottley, will take the “next logical step” to make Barbados into a republic in time for the country’s 55th anniversary of independence in November 2021."

and a one party dictatorship by 2023 doubtless.

[Rookiescot]

On 9/14/2020 at 5:11 PM, nemo38 said:

The Orkneys and Shetlands have killed any chance for Scottish independence saying they would want independence from an independent Scotland. That would make Scotland non-viable financially, if it wasn't already.

 

Given how much the Covid crisis sucked out of the world economy it won't matter anyway. Our real problems will eclipse luxury concepts.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1334720/nicola-sturgeon-orkney-independence-referendum-vote-scotland-shetland-islands-snp-scottis

 

 

Try getting your information from a source other than the Express. First of all because of reading that rag you ended up voting for Brexit.

Second of all it knows absolutely nothing about what is happening in Scotland.

Third of all Orkney and Shetland are looking to get more autonomy not independence. 

Fourth Even if they were to become independent they would be considered an enclave within Scottish territorial waters and therefor would only control the oil/gas/fishing within a 12 mile limit of their coastline.

How much oil and gas is included in their territorial waters?

Zero.

None.

Zilch.

Happy to have helped increase your knowledge on all things Scottish. 

[7by7]

49 minutes ago, kingdong said:

and a one party dictatorship by 2023 doubtless.

You mean like the former colony now republic; Ireland?

 

Which of the 31 Commonwealth countries which are republics are one party dictatorships? (Remember, Google is your friend!)

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You mean like the former colony now republic; Ireland?

 

Which of the 31 Commonwealth countries which are republics are one party dictatorships? (Remember, Google is your friend!)

 

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You mean like the former colony now republic; Ireland?

 

Which of the 31 Commonwealth countries which are republics are one party dictatorships? (Remember, Google is your friend!)

zimbabwe for one.

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, kingdong said:

 

zimbabwe for one.

 

Zimbabwe is not in the Commonwealth.

 

After it's membership was suspended for human rights abuses and other violations of the Harare declaration, Mugabe's government withdrew from the organisation in 2003. Jumping before he was pushed.

 

Do try and keep up with current events if you are going to participate in a current affairs discussion!

[Rookiescot]

49 minutes ago, kingdong said:

 

zimbabwe for one.

You jumped on that without checking didnt you?

 

I did a bit of checking and I found this.

 

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You jumped on that without checking didnt you?

 

I did a bit of checking and I found this.

 

after i left in 1980,coudn,t really give a tinkers cuss to what happened out there,only thing i did was help mates out.

[izod10]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Try getting your information from a source other than the Express. First of all because of reading that rag you ended up voting for Brexit.

Second of all it knows absolutely nothing about what is happening in Scotland.

Third of all Orkney and Shetland are looking to get more autonomy not independence. 

Fourth Even if they were to become independent they would be considered an enclave within Scottish territorial waters and therefor would only control the oil/gas/fishing within a 12 mile limit of their coastline.

How much oil and gas is included in their territorial waters?

Zero.

None.

Zilch.

Happy to have helped increase your knowledge on all things Scottish. 

Wrong

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

Wrong

Be specific - this lack of detail is what leads to disasters like Brexit, Johnson and other illogical and damaging occurrences. 

[izod10]

200 nautical miles

 

The Falklands claim an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) extending 200 nautical miles (370 km) from its coastal baselines, based on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea; this zone overlaps with the EEZ of Argentina.

   for example   and Shetland wants shut of scotland     18 votes to 2

[CG1 Blue]

On 9/16/2020 at 4:08 AM, RuamRudy said:

I am sure we will all raise a glass of rum punch today to wish our Barbadian friends well as they choose to become sever ties with the UK and become a republic.

 

Barbados to become Republic, remove Queen as Head of State in 2021

 

"Barbados has announced its intention to become a republic and remove Britain’s Queen Elizabeth as head of state by November next year.

"[Governor-General] said the administration of Prime Minister Mia Mottley, will take the “next logical step” to make Barbados into a republic in time for the country’s 55th anniversary of independence in November 2021."

It baffles me (and most I'm sure) why Barbados still had the Queen as HoS after all these years of independence. That's just weird IMO. 

 

Not sure what this has to do with Scottish independence though. Unless you're suggesting Scotland was colonised by the British ????

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

200 nautical miles

 

The Falklands claim an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) extending 200 nautical miles (370 km) from its coastal baselines, based on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea; this zone overlaps with the EEZ of Argentina.

   for example   and Shetland wants shut of scotland     18 votes to 2

This ongoing grasping at the thinnest of straws is genuinely amusing. 

 

When are you going to rehash the story that the RAF will bomb Scottish airports to prevent Russian bombers landing there? 

 

There is also the story that we will be more vulnerable to alien invasion. 

 

Or that we won't be allowed to watch Strictly Come Dancing! 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

It baffles me (and most I'm sure) why Barbados still had the Queen as HoS after all these years of independence. That's just weird IMO. 

 

Not sure what this has to do with Scottish independence though. Unless you're suggesting Scotland was colonised by the British ????

By the British? So colonised by ourselves? Or did you mean 'colonised by the English'? 

 

I posted that to highlight that the relinquishment of ties to the UK need not be a traumatic or tumultuous affair, but can be accomplished without rancour or bitterness. 

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

By the British? So colonised by ourselves? Or did you mean 'colonised by the English'? 

 

I posted that to highlight that the relinquishment of ties to the UK need not be a traumatic or tumultuous affair, but can be accomplished without rancour or bitterness. 

That's why I pointed it out - colonised by yourselves wouldn't make much sense. 

 

And removing Queenie as head of state is slightly less complicated than exiting a full political and financial union. Not much of a comparison whatever way you look at it. 

Unless you mean the original act of independence for Barbados, which again was much less complex than Scottish independence would be. 

 

Not that I'm against independence for Scotland if that's what the people want. 

[RuamRudy]

21 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

That's why I pointed it out - colonised by yourselves wouldn't make much sense. 

 

And removing Queenie as head of state is slightly less complicated than exiting a full political and financial union. Not much of a comparison whatever way you look at it. 

Unless you mean the original act of independence for Barbados, which again was much less complex than Scottish independence would be. 

 

Not that I'm against independence for Scotland if that's what the people want. 

If a certain level of difficulty was considered a reason not to do something, the human race would still be living in the trees. 

 

But Scotland has its own legal system, its own NHS, education system, much of the functions of any country are already devolved. I am not diminishing the challenges we will face but I don't think any are insurmountable. 

[izod10]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

This ongoing grasping at the thinnest of straws is genuinely amusing. 

 

When are you going to rehash the story that the RAF will bomb Scottish airports to prevent Russian bombers landing there? 

 

There is also the story that we will be more vulnerable to alien invasion. 

 

Or that we won't be allowed to watch Strictly Come Dancing! 

scotland want to leave the union on its own conditions,just leave,take snapshot Gallup poll..that will do,now p.iss off, here are your cards  go now...please

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

scotland want to leave the union on its own conditions,just leave,take snapshot Gallup poll..that will do,now p.iss off, here are your cards  go now...please

They want to leave one Union of 4 countries and join another of 27. Independence? Don't make me laugh.

 

The SNP should rename themselves to the Stay Haggard In The EU. The would make a fitting acronym ????.