UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[RuamRudy]

Just now, evadgib said:

England is surely Scotland's biggest trading partner too but that hasn't stopped you banging the drum.

But nobody is making statements suggesting Scotland would refuse to trade with England. To suggest that independence means an iron curtain across which no trade will occur is ludicrous. Besides, what will you do for power, gas, water... 

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Ah yes, Lend - Lease. Signed into law by the President of The United States on March 11 1941. By which time the immediate threat of invasion had rather subsided.

 

If you are going to argue "robblok" you could at least try to do so from some basis of factual knowledge!

You forget a lot of US help before, like the Destroyers for Bases Agreement, and a LOT of supply of weapons, and other needed material to fight the Germans.  In a fact an act of war of the US against Germany starting in 1939.

[david555]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

You do have the ability to make Scotland sound like a cheap whore..............................

Say the U.K. Pimp...……...…..............????

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

But nobody is making statements suggesting Scotland would refuse to trade with England. To suggest that independence means an iron curtain across which no trade will occur is ludicrous. Besides, what will you do for power, gas, water... 

I'm not arguing RR, I'm just pointing out that you seem to be milking yet another dead-horse ???????????????????????????? thread.

Has anyone seen 49?

[david555]

Just now, evadgib said:

I'm not arguing RR, I'm just pointing out that you seem to be milking yet another dead-horse ???????????????????????????? thread.

Has anyone seen 49?

"Has anyone seen 49?"

 

No....., but Have you seen Mark François lately …..????

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'm not arguing RR, I'm just pointing out that you seem to be milking yet another dead-horse ???????????????????????????? thread.

Has anyone seen 49?

Is the whole point of TVF World News not to discuss topical issues? Should I sit this one out? 

[evadgib]

23 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Is the whole point of TVF World News not to discuss topical issues? Should I sit this one out? 

Not at all, if anything the repetitive monotony makes me wish I had.

[DaveCW]

Was going to make a comment of this - but its pointless - Beliefs are to well engrained in folk - I believe that Scotland had its chance in the 70, when oil prices and exploration were in its favour and the massive amount of revenue would have secured a solid future - I don't believe this is now the case, I don't think we even have the silicon valley (or is it Glen?) that we used to have. As for Brexit, well time will tell - you can bury your head in the sand, or move forward, although given the trouble in the EU now, Im not so confident its the place to be in the future, as I say time, and a confidence in our own (UK) destiny will tell (I'm looking at this objectively as opposed to belonging to any particular camp).

 

I'm will leaving Scotland and therefore the UK soon enough (Hopefully). I will always be interested in the country, but as its my choice to leave - I will refrain from future votes - I don't believe that my view has a bearing on those who have to live with a voting outcome whether General/Local elections or referendums. If it was that important to me, I would not leave, and if I had, then I would return. simple

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, DaveCW said:

Was going to make a comment of this - but its pointless - Beliefs are to well engrained in folk - I believe that Scotland had its chance in the 70, when oil prices and exploration were in its favour and the massive amount of revenue would have secured a solid future - I don't believe this is now the case, I don't think we even have the silicon valley (or is it Glen?) that we used to have. As for Brexit, well time will tell - you can bury your head in the sand, or move forward, although given the trouble in the EU now, Im not so confident its the place to be in the future, as I say time, and a confidence in our own (UK) destiny will tell (I'm looking at this objectively as opposed to belonging to any particular camp).

 

I'm will leaving Scotland and therefore the UK soon enough (Hopefully). I will always be interested in the country, but as its my choice to leave - I will refrain from future votes - I don't believe that my view has a bearing on those who have to live with a voting outcome whether General/Local elections or referendums. If it was that important to me, I would not leave, and if I had, then I would return. simple

All fair and above bored. Nice change really.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Not at all, if anything the repetitive monotony makes me wish I had.

Never mind, Eva. Fill your card with Katy. You won't be bored. 

 

https://www.thetabernaclechoir.org/videos/i-could-have-danced-all-night-katherine-jenkins.html

[pacovl46]

19 hours ago, kingdong said:

and if you do get your wish and your independence,don,t come whingeing back when the eu wants handouts from you like they did from the uk,you kak your bed and you lay in it.and by the way its sown not sewn.

No problem! The sooner the better! 

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

No problem! The sooner the better! 

och aye the noo

[pacovl46]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

och aye the noo

Is that English?

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

I know what you wrote and I know what I wrote - they are different. But can you prove that in 2014 the number in favour of Scottish independence was much higher than the result of the referendum? Really? I would have thought that a genuine desire for permanent independence would override any dislike of a temporary leader like Salmond. Some things just don't add up, do they?

"I would have thought that a genuine desire for permanent independence would override any dislike of a temporary leader like Salmond."

 

Quite obviously you never heard his speeches as a student activist. There is an old saying about leopards and spots, the older Scots had not forgotten.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, nauseus said:

He didn't win Brexit. You are way ahead of yourself as usual.

Remind me, who was PM when the UK left the EU.

[JonnyF]

13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But nobody is making statements suggesting Scotland would refuse to trade with England. To suggest that independence means an iron curtain across which no trade will occur is ludicrous. Besides, what will you do for power, gas, water... 

And yet Remainers are suggesting that the UK's trade with the EU will collapse if we move to WTO. 

 

As I've been saying for ages, a trade deal is helpful but it's not the 'be all and end all'. Trade will continue. In the UK's case, tariffs collected on EU goods imported to the UK could be used to subsidize UK businesses/industries that suffer from EU tariffs being placed on UK goods. And we import much more from the EU than we export to the EU, so the UK government is going to be collecting an awful lot of money. Ever wonder why the UK doesn't want to sign up to EU rules on state subsidies? Ever wonder why the EU are so desperate to keep us in the straitjacket that is the level playing field (which actually leans 45 degrees in the EU's favour)?

 

The trouble is, SNP Remainers like to use one argument for the UK leaving the EU (stupid English nationalists, all hell will break loose) and use another argument for Scotland leaving the UK (intelligent Scottish nationalists, no problems whatsoever). Their hubris about the importance of their little country reminds me a lot of the Thais hubris about Thailand actually. Many similarities.

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

And yet Remainers are suggesting that the UK's trade with the EU will collapse if we move to WTO. 

Nobody ever said that, but it will be significantly reduced. Of course the US trade deal will be the silver bullet to counter all argument.

I traded with Europe before the single market came into being, how easy do you think that was?

The single market made is so much easier for the small business and many will cease to export and downsize rather than go back to the way things were.

[nauseus]

59 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Remind me, who was PM when the UK left the EU.

Who was PM when the UK voted to leave the EU?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

"I would have thought that a genuine desire for permanent independence would override any dislike of a temporary leader like Salmond."

 

Quite obviously you never heard his speeches as a student activist. There is an old saying about leopards and spots, the older Scots had not forgotten.

Correct, I didn't. But if that is true, would that not hamper his SNP winning a majority of parliamentary seats more than affecting an independence referendum?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Is that English?

Aye!

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

And yet Remainers are suggesting that the UK's trade with the EU will collapse if we move to WTO. 

 

As I've been saying for ages, a trade deal is helpful but it's not the 'be all and end all'. Trade will continue. In the UK's case, tariffs collected on EU goods imported to the UK could be used to subsidize UK businesses/industries that suffer from EU tariffs being placed on UK goods. And we import much more from the EU than we export to the EU, so the UK government is going to be collecting an awful lot of money. Ever wonder why the UK doesn't want to sign up to EU rules on state subsidies? Ever wonder why the EU are so desperate to keep us in the straitjacket that is the level playing field (which actually leans 45 degrees in the EU's favour)?

 

The trouble is, SNP Remainers like to use one argument for the UK leaving the EU (stupid English nationalists, all hell will break loose) and use another argument for Scotland leaving the UK (intelligent Scottish nationalists, no problems whatsoever). 

No, the trouble is that Brexiteers fail to understand that the UK's place in Europe is not comparable to that of Scotland's place in the UK. 

 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Their hubris about the importance of their little country reminds me a lot of the Thais hubris about Thailand actually. Many similarities.

I presume you wrote this in some childish attempt to insult or offend? If that is the level of debate, then I see independence as guaranteed. 

[evadgib]

31 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

No, the trouble is that Brexiteers fail to understand that the UK's place in Europe is not comparable to that of Scotland's place in the UK. 

 

I presume you wrote this in some childish attempt to insult or offend? If that is the level of debate, then I see independence as guaranteed. 

Using Brexiteers as a derogatory term somewhat backfires when you realize that the entire Kingdom is leaving the ???????? therefore it applies to everyone.

[RuamRudy]

23 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Using Brexiteers as a derogatory term somewhat backfires when you realize that the entire Kingdom is leaving the ???????? therefore it applies to everyone.

I am unclear as to how you can assume I was using the term Brexiteer in a derogatory manner. My statement was in direct response to a statement referring to 'SNP Remainers'. I have no issue being labelled thus - what is the preferred term for a group of anti-EU voters?

 

But to suggest we are all Brexiteers is a bit like suggesting we are all Tories - thankfully brainwashing and forced conformity are not part of the Nasty Party manifesto - yet.

 

 

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am unclear as to how you can assume I was using the term Brexiteer in a derogatory manner. My statement was in direct response to a statement referring to 'SNP Remainers'. I have no issue being labelled thus - what is the preferred term for a group of anti-EU voters?

 

But to suggest we are all Brexiteers is a bit like suggesting we are all Tories - thankfully brainwashing and forced conformity are not part of the Nasty Party manifesto - yet.

 

 

Fair comment - just call us heroes then.

[androokery]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:51 AM, evadgib said:

???????? and ????????????????????????????? 

Hey the Union Jack would have to be changed. 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Who was PM when the UK voted to leave the EU?

Are you trying to say that PM actually took the UK out of the EU, must have missed that bit.

Of course you are perfectly free to believe that the referendum result was a legal and binding contract with the EU.

The pigs are refueled, AF'd, BF'd and ready to fly.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Correct, I didn't. But if that is true, would that not hamper his SNP winning a majority of parliamentary seats more than affecting an independence referendum?

Do you really think that voting would be split the same way on a yes/no answer as in electing candidates.

Like many you cannot seem to separate out the difference between the right to choose and making the choice.

There is no moral argument that can deny Scotland the right to determine it's own future. When the time comes to make that choice it would be up to the people of Scotland to assess the Scottish government proposal and make their own mind up.

In 2014 a 650 page white paper was published prior to the vote, remind me what did the UK government publish, nothing, made it up as they went along. 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Are you trying to say that PM actually took the UK out of the EU, must have missed that bit.

Of course you are perfectly free to believe that the referendum result was a legal and binding contract with the EU.

The pigs are refueled, AF'd, BF'd and ready to fly.

You said that Bojo won brexit. He didn't. He was just PM when we actually left.

 

The referendum was just as legal as the one in 1975 and so was the result. Nothing to do with any  contract with the EU.

 

Have a good flight.

 

[nauseus]

59 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Do you really think that voting would be split the same way on a yes/no answer as in electing candidates.

Like many you cannot seem to separate out the difference between the right to choose and making the choice.

There is no moral argument that can deny Scotland the right to determine it's own future. When the time comes to make that choice it would be up to the people of Scotland to assess the Scottish government proposal and make their own mind up.

In 2014 a 650 page white paper was published prior to the vote, remind me what did the UK government publish, nothing, made it up as they went along. 

 

What I really think is that you are veering off track so far you are about to overtake yourself. Why not stick to the point at hand and answer the question?

[transam]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I am unclear as to how you can assume I was using the term Brexiteer in a derogatory manner. My statement was in direct response to a statement referring to 'SNP Remainers'. I have no issue being labelled thus - what is the preferred term for a group of anti-EU voters?

 

But to suggest we are all Brexiteers is a bit like suggesting we are all Tories - thankfully brainwashing and forced conformity are not part of the Nasty Party manifesto - yet.

 

 

Nasty Party, I thought you were an SNP bloke........????