Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

22 hours ago, fishtank said:

As Sheryl said, Non O Imm Visas are not designed so that people can live here full time.

If you want to live here full time get the correct Visa/Extension instead of finding loopholes.

Some of the requirements for these visas are unfair, so people have to find "loopholes", so the ones who are genuine and contributing to the Thai economy, good luck to them.

 

In addition to which, this situation has crippled the local economy. Businesses are dying. 

Some are having to close their businesses, they can’t meet the savings requirement, no longer meet the work permit requirement yet have been here for years working hard making ends meet. These same people are now stuck with no option but to either leave their families or find a loophole. 

Taking their family home with them (for some nationalities) is not an option as there are minimum income / savings requirements too (i.e. UK). 

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, david555 said:

Good news ! …. so it is only a money thing I suppose ….or negligence by waiting last moment for another amnesty?

It's not that simple.

 

Many had to prove the equivalent of 400THB in their foreign bank accounts to obtain the Non Imm O ME Visa from Thai Embassies. The likes of those to young to retire, still working or having some ties still to their homeland who spend their time between their home Country and visiting Thai family.

Because of the current unprecedented situation, through no fault of their own, they find it almost impossible to leave Thailand, or more to the point almost impossible to return to Thailand due to the entry requirements imposed by the Thai authorities.

[DrJack54]

Just now, WorriedNoodle said:

It could be for some who are 'trapped' here at the moment with Thai families to support and unable to go on international travel to earn a living as they might normally do pre COVID.

And they can't put under 13k usd into a Thai bank for 2 months? That's sad.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Then again, its easier for Westerners to come and live in Thailand, than it is for Thais to live in the West

It's not easier to get PR or citizenship for foreigners in Thailand, than it is for your counterpart living in the western Countries.

[david555]

13 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

I’m hoping you stop interjecting, but I’m prepared to put up with it

That's the spirit …. never give up .

[Bender Rodriguez]

On 9/3/2020 at 11:32 AM, GeorgeCross said:

you are preaching to the converted here mate, maybe try to get some media exposure?

write some emails to news sites, government, etc

i heard some german guy got Prayut to listen to him so maybe things will change

good luck

I wrote in English & Thai to all newspapers in Thailand and in my native home language ... ZERO newspapers were interested in publishing when I spoke about no other choice than to leave my child behind with ZERO other people taking care of the child, after immigration DENIED my extension based of ...  with money in the bank, all papers in order, except one impossible to get LANDLORD document...  none were interested...

 

same goes for NGO's ... only interested in COLLECTION OF MONEY

[david555]

23 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not that simple.

 

Many had to prove the equivalent of 400THB in their foreign bank accounts to obtain the Non Imm O ME Visa from Thai Embassies. The likes of those to young to retire, still working or having some ties still to their homeland who spend their time between their home Country and visiting Thai family.

Because of the current unprecedented situation, through no fault of their own, they find it almost impossible to leave Thailand, or more to the point almost impossible to return to Thailand due to the entry requirements imposed by the Thai authorities.

About the last part ….I am one of those who could not leave for a visit home country …. more would not leave anymore , as I expected i might not be allowed in to Thailand again  , so sometimes some people take risks when even a mark is already on the wall 

 

On my floor a compatriot travelled anyway in March ….. still not back , bought very recently that condo …… can see it all around now this happening 

[john terry1001]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Immigration Bureau order 327/2557 (2014)

Section 2.22

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date:

 

Order 35/2561 (Jan 2019) then amended that section to the following.

(4) Al least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,000

But Tanoshi, please read what we're discussing. What you've posted is referring to the rules regarding the required annual money in the bank method for a retirement extension. That's not what we're discussing is it! 

 

WE are discussing the method that some people think is available whereby, on an initial application for a marriage extension, they only need to deposit two monthly transfers of at least 40k baht instead of the required twelve monthly transfers of at least 40k baht every month.

 

Some posters have reported obtaining an initial extension by transferring just two monthly amounts of 40k baht, while others have been refused an extension because that option is not part of the rules and have been told they must deposit 400k in a Thai bank account.

 

Jack Thomson insists however insists that, for an initial application, the option of supplying just two monthly transfers of 40k+ instead of twelve monthly transfers of 40k+ is available, while I don't think that option exists and I have simply asked him to show where it says that in the order.

[Bender Rodriguez]

15 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not easier to get PR or citizenship for foreigners in Thailand, than it is for your counterpart living in the western Countries.

exactly ... ex wife got 5 YEAR permission of stay after marriage in home country, with no money in the bank

 

she could work from day 1 and buy property in her name

 

after 3 years, she got NATIONALITY ... no job, no language skills, no nothing

 

so please don't compare...

[Tanoshi]

23 minutes ago, ravip said:

But yes, that is much more achievable in the UK than Thailand.

Today, it is seen that the 'Refugee' status is the easiest method to get PR in the West! And 99% are 'Economic Refugees', who manipulate systems with the help of relevant 'experts'. 

There is no such thing as 'economic refugees'

There are 'refugees' and economic migrants'.

As different as chalk and cheese.

[luckyluke]

36 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

Which ways, please expand

Please read the topic in it all. 

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, mighty said:

In the UK its same. If your visa runs out you have to leave (if you cannot renew in country)

They can jump on a dinghy and return, then get put in a 4 star hotel, plus benefits. ????

[vandeventer]

2 hours ago, Brickbat said:

I still see many farangs bribing their way through Immigration agents. About 30,000 Thb buys you a 1 year visa. 
 

You can’t stop corruption in Thailand. Any talk of that by authorities is just spin. 

There's not much talk about this but there are a lot of Fanangs doing this.Most agents

take 20,000 or less to have funds in your account for 1 year. Corruption is one thing,

but using their power to belittle us is another thing. 

 

[Myran]

I'm sure Thailand will cry itself to sleep over farangs who can't live up to the financial requirements for a yearly extension... I'm not rich myself, but I made tons of sacrifices to amass the 400k in the bank so I could live here properly long-term. The fact of the matter is that the Non-O ME isn't meant to be used for long, continuous stays.

 

Now, you can argue that there aren't any rules in place to prevent people from doing just that, which is fair enough. But don't come complaining when this very "loophole" comes back to bite you in the rear in situations such as these. There are pros and cons of everything, and up until now, you've mostly enjoyed the pros of the Non-O ME.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

exactly ... ex wife got 5 YEAR permission of stay after marriage in home country, with no money in the bank

 

she could work from day 1 and buy property in her name

 

after 3 years, she got NATIONALITY ... no job, no language skills, no nothing

 

so please don't compare...

And the difference being most western Countries offer a Visa or route to 'settlement' for your foreign spouse. Thailand doesn't offer that option to foreigners.

 

I think you misunderstood my post, we are actually in agreement.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

That's true but could change in the future. I wouldn't guarantee they'll continue to be so generous indefinitely. 

Only two things are certain, death and taxes.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

Yes but the big downside is that you'd have to live in the Philippines.  

 

Just because the Philippines has no income requirements doesn't mean that every other country has to follow suit.

It is more a question of what's fair and what isn't, and I believe that a lot more people will side with the Philipines on this one.

[vandeventer]

20 minutes ago, Myran said:

I'm sure Thailand will cry itself to sleep over farangs who can't live up to the financial requirements for a yearly extension... I'm not rich myself, but I made tons of sacrifices to amass the 400k in the bank so I could live here properly long-term. The fact of the matter is that the Non-O ME isn't meant to be used for long, continuous stays.

 

Now, you can argue that there aren't any rules in place to prevent people from doing just that, which is fair enough. But don't come complaining when this very "loophole" comes back to bite you in the rear in situations such as these. There are pros and cons of everything, and up until now, you've mostly enjoyed the pros of the Non-O ME.

So where is the loophole,the visa can be had in Laos or Vietnam and people have been doing

this for over 30 years. When the virus is gone are they still be going to issue this loophole visa?

[david555]

Just now, vandeventer said:

So where is the loophole,the visa can be had in Laos or Vietnam and people have been doing

this for over 30 years. When the virus is gone are they still be going to issue this loophole visa?

Yes i guess that 8 on 10 guy's go just do what they did before and maybe …. maybe I say... 2 shall learn their lesson out of this and play on safe and make their situation in order as expected by Thai immigration 

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

WE are discussing the method that some people think is available whereby, on an initial application for a marriage extension, they only need to deposit two monthly transfers of at least 40k baht instead of the required twelve monthly transfers of at least 40k baht every month.

 

Some posters have reported obtaining an initial extension by transferring just two monthly amounts of 40k baht, while others have been refused an extension because that option is not part of the rules and have been told they must deposit 400k in a Thai bank account.

 

Jack Thomson insists however insists that, for an initial application, the option of supplying just two monthly transfers of 40k+ instead of twelve monthly transfers of 40k+ is available, while I don't think that option exists and I have simply asked him to show where it says that in the order.

Police order 327/2557 (2014).

Section 2.18. In the case of being a family member
of a Thai national (applicable only to
parents, spouse, children, adopted
children, or spouse’s children):

 

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a
bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

 

Although this doesn't specifically state only 2 x 40K transfers for the very first extension application, Immigration follow the same criteria as for retirement as many will testify.

Usually if your intention was to apply to 'stay' with Thai family, you would initially enter on a 90 day single entry Non O Visa, permitting a stay of 90 days.

Within that 90 days, it wouldn't be possible to open a Thai bank account and make more than 2 x monthly overseas transfers if electing to use the income method.

 

I assume your a UK, US or Australian national who can no longer obtain an Embassy Income letter and are on a Non Imm O ME Visa which has expired?

 

The problem is under these rather confusing times, certain Immigration offices are refusing the Income method, whilst others are requesting proof of 12 x monthly overseas transfers, which I suspect is due to the fact you held a 1 year valid Non O ME Visa.

The cabinet announced amnesty, followed by their own Infographic information conflict, leaving many offices in disarray and not following the rules as laid down.

 

What exactly is your predicament?

Send PM if it's personal.

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

So where is the loophole,the visa can be had in Laos or Vietnam and people have been doing

this for over 30 years. When the virus is gone are they still be going to issue this loophole visa?

That remains to be seen. The number of consulates issuing the multiple entry Non O visa has been steadily dropping, especially locations that do not ask for financial proof. Some of the more obnoxious land crossings had started preventing in/out border runs with those visas. There have been rumblings about Immigration sometimes stating that the visas were intended for visiting Thailand, not living here. That said, those consulates that still issued multiple Non O without financial proof might resume doing so, and tolerance of their use might even improve. We will need to see.

 

Regardless of the current exceptional circumstances,  a 90-day permission to stay means a 90-day permission to stay. The assumption is that you intended spending time outside Thailand. Most in immigration will take the view that difficulties in meeting the requirements for your next visit does not justify a complete overhaul of the Thai immigration system. You can agree or disagree with this, but would be wise to recognise reality.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

except one impossible to get LANDLORD document...  none were interested...

Obvious question, but why is it impossible to obtain documents from your landlord.

 

Second less obvious question, but after living in Thailand for so many years and submitting previous extension applications, were you not aware the landlords documents were required if renting and if so, why did you rent without first ensuring the documents were at hand.

[The Theory]

23 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

no income or proof of money requirement if you are married to a filipina

Is the living cost as low as Thailand? Or Annual visa fees are lower than Thai? Safety ? 
I don't think so. 

[ChaiyaTH]

People are well aware of the situation as well that agents exist. So those who wanted to stay here, and didn't start an agent process, risk it on their own. Not feeling sorry for them at all. 

 

Having said that, I came across more people who just want to leave because it is boring here and they are done with all nonsense too.

[hotchilli]

On 9/3/2020 at 11:20 AM, finnsk said:

Many farang are living here on non O ME, which means they had to make a border run every 3 month and do not need to meet financial requirements.

They are now caught in the covid restrictions, they can not make border runs and many of them can not change to meet the financial requirements with 400/800 kbaht in bank or pension/income at 40/65 kbaht pr month.

What you really mean is they've used a loop-hole before to stay here long-term by doing border runs every 3 months instead of getting a real visa and ability to stay in the country doing a 90 day report within Thailand.

Yes your long holiday is now becoming more difficult... 

[bangkokbonecollector]

1 hour ago, Myran said:

I'm sure Thailand will cry itself to sleep over farangs who can't live up to the financial requirements for a yearly extension... I'm not rich myself, but I made tons of sacrifices to amass the 400k in the bank so I could live here properly long-term. The fact of the matter is that the Non-O ME isn't meant to be used for long, continuous stays.

 

Now, you can argue that there aren't any rules in place to prevent people from doing just that, which is fair enough. But don't come complaining when this very "loophole" comes back to bite you in the rear in situations such as these. There are pros and cons of everything, and up until now, you've mostly enjoyed the pros of the Non-O ME.

It's not a loophole, please show me where it explicitly says on the IO website that this visa must not be used to gain 90day stamps on border runs. You cant because it doesnt say that. There are a million and one valid and legal reasons why getting this visa and only using it for the 90day stamps (+60day extensions if you want). They cancelled the multi entry from most embassies because they figured hey we can make 80US$ every 90days or 150days instead of just making whatever it was for a multiple visa once a year. They didnt cancel the multi because they didnt like people using it as just a 90day stamp thing. Again, it's not a loophole and its within the bounds of the visa and its rules, please show me where it says it's not. 

[bangkokbonecollector]

20 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

What you really mean is they've used a loop-hole before to stay here long-term by doing border runs every 3 months instead of getting a real visa and ability to stay in the country doing a 90 day report within Thailand.

Yes your long holiday is now becoming more difficult... 

It's not a loophole, really it's not and never has been.

[Myran]

6 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

It's not a loophole, please show me where it explicitly says on the IO website that this visa must not be used to gain 90day stamps on border runs. You cant because it doesnt say that. There are a million and one valid and legal reasons why getting this visa and only using it for the 90day stamps (+60day extensions if you want). They cancelled the multi entry from most embassies because they figured hey we can make 80US$ every 90days or 150days instead of just making whatever it was for a multiple visa once a year. They didnt cancel the multi because they didnt like people using it as just a 90day stamp thing. Again, it's not a loophole and its within the bounds of the visa and its rules, please show me where it says it's not. 

What? I specifically state: "you can argue that there aren't any rules in place to prevent people from doing just that, which is fair enough" And i specifically put "loopholes" in quotation marks to indicate that they aren't really loopholes. Please make sure to read what you're responding to properly before answering.

 

Way too many people on Thaivisa just read what they want to read so that they can respond what they want, and it's really tiring.

[Myran]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

So where is the loophole,the visa can be had in Laos or Vietnam and people have been doing

this for over 30 years. When the virus is gone are they still be going to issue this loophole visa?

Holy <deleted>, are people really this bad at reading comprehension? No, it's not a loophole in the literal sense, which is why I put it in "quotation marks". Furthermore, I specifically stated in my post that "there aren't any rules in place to prevent people from doing just that, which is fair enough".

 

Do you understand what that means? It means, "It's completely fine for people to use this visa to stay long-term in Thailand, because there aren't any rules that say they can't". Isn't it funny how that completely contradicts what you're trying to claim that I said?

 

The point was that this is a visa that is meant for entering multiple times during a year, and it comes with the benefit of not having to show any money. But, it's not all sunshine and puppies, because it also comes with the requirement to leave the country in order to make a new entry and be able to stay longer. People complaining now seem to want all the pros of having this type of visa, but none of the cons. Everything comes with pros and cons, and when you accept the pros, you have to accept the cons as well.

[bangkokbonecollector]

Its either a confused emoji or a laughing emoji but they are the universal signal for someone who has no substance to his argument. Show me where it says that visa is not to be used to gain 90day back to back stamps or shut up. Confused emoji 5555 pls