Thailand needs to go electric!

[spidermike007]

Electric, and hybrid vehicles are getting more efficient all the time. Battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds. They are the polar opposite of a super toxic diesel vehicle, from an environmental point of view. It is just a matter of time before electric vehicles replace nearly all gas guzzling vehicles. Ten years? Maybe 15, I predict nearly all gas, and the horrendous diesel vehicles will be obsolete.

 

Thailand would be very smart to support this trend, and even smarter, if they could get out in front of a growing trend, for a change. They have a history of being extremely regressive. Especially with the army in charge. Let us hope they can figure out a way to get in front of this, at least once. 

 

Many are predicting electric vehicles with a lifespan of 500,000 to one million miles. And required maintenance every 100,000 miles, or 162,500 kilometers. Hard to beat that. It is only a matter of time. An earlier study by Duke University underscored the health costs: each gallon of gasoline purchased at the gas station carries with it up to $3.80 in health and environmental costs. The diesel in big rigs and farm equipment is worse, with an additional $4.80 in social costs to our health and climate per gallon.

 

https://earthjustice.org/features/electric-vehicles-explainer

 

Electric cars are the future, and each year we've seen automakers add more EVs to their lineup. Everything including existing manufacturer EVs along with some new names such as Byton, Lordstown, and Rivian will be produced. We've compiled a list of every electric vehicle, from concept to starting production, that isn't available yet but will be soon.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/ev/

 

The decline is mathematical. With one-fifth the number of powertrain parts and an almost total elimination of oil (a), the typical automotive dealer will suffer 35% declines in maintenance and service revenue, or roughly $1,300, for an EV versus an internal combustion engine vehicle over a five-year period. But this disruption is not even. Two of the top three maintenance items — oil changes and brake service (24% and 5%, respectively, of all maintenance transactions in the U.S. market) — are reduced or eliminated entirely by the move to EVs. 

 

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/electric-vehicles-are-changing-the-future-of-auto-maintenance/

[xtrnuno41]

It's not working, batteries will stop at one moment, then you need to buy a new package and that will COST YOU a lot.

3 years and you have to change. This is born from climate change and just a big new business. A new opportunity for car makers  to have the money big time. They dont care about climate. And indeed how green is the car if you see what they have to do to find lithium? Guess thats why they are busy on going to mars. I believe they are already selling mars, pieces of "land". However to whom mars belong? Or for that matter , the moon?

 

It would be different if the electric motor, it is already there, would only need a pulse to start and then can keep on running by itself. A perpetuum mobile. It is there, but not yet strong enough.  The inventor already had to run for his life. It was in the Netherlands in an university, dont know where it is now, maybe on a shelf.

There are many inventions on a shelf, just bought as they were destructive for companies. They just buy the octrooi and then leave it. 

Another invention was by an USA university. They were looking for something else, but find a way to convert CO2 into methanol. It would be a cheap way, it has to be developed to industrial scale. Maybe they are working on it, or...... maybe it's moved to a shelf. Never hear of it a yet again.

And that s the way the world turns, money in my pocket and out of yours.

[digger70]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand needs to go electric!

Big Scam Biggest Rip off yet.

How are the Power stations going to keep up with all the power using vehicles? 

Make More Dirty electric power? More Dirty Power stations 

Who's going to benefit ? Power Station Moguls. Car Factories 

Price of Electricity will go Sky high. 

Nothing is cheaper and Cleaner  than a Combustion engine running on Hydrogen Gas . The Government should get a program going for Hydrogen Fuel cells to cut out the Fuel Companies .

Edited September 4, 2020 by digger70

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

The Government should get a program going for Hydrogen Fuel cells to cut out the Fuel Companies .

 

Hydrogen either in an IC engine or fuel cell is very clean (only water as the exhaust).

 

A simple question. Where does the hydrogen come from?

 

[digger70]

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Hydrogen either in an IC engine or fuel cell is very clean (only water as the exhaust).

 

A simple question. Where does the hydrogen come from?

 

Electrolysis: An electric current splits water into hydrogen and oxygen can make it at home .

 

 I made it with some  4" PVC pipe and some stainless steel plates a couple wires and a battery and added some salt to the water in the PVC pipe . Clean Power .The Trick to make it on the go in your car is tricky. the Fuel cell uses a lot off power . There are Many different Fuel cells on the Net but I made my own .

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

Electrolysis: An electric current splits water into hydrogen and oxygen can make it at home .

 

 I made it with some  4" PVC pipe and some stainless steel plates a couple wires and a battery and added some salt to the water in the PVC pipe . Clean Power .The Trick to make it on the go in your car is tricky. the Fuel cell uses a lot off power . There are Many different Fuel cells on the Net but I made my own .

 

And the electricity comes from where exactly?

 

How does adding an extra stage to the process reduce pollution? Why not use the electricity directly to power the vehicle?

 

[chilli42]

I must be missing something.  Can someone tell me again why EV manufacturers would choose Thailand to build new supply chain connections?  Vietnam maybe, but Thailand?  It’s best days for manufacturing are well behind it.   

[3NUMBAS]

electic bikes and scooters in the meantime to clear the filthy air

[scammed]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Electric

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Zk11vI-7czE&feature=emb_logo

 

[jacob29]

13 hours ago, uncleP said:

Impossible to go electric  for more than short journeys due to heavy traffic and the need to use air con. When we get solid state batteries things may well change

Estimates of AC runtime are in the ballpark of 100 hours. If by short journey you meant days stuck in heavy traffic, then sure we're not there yet.

 

11 hours ago, Brunolem said:

While I am all for clean energy, EVs are not the answer since their carbon footprint, once everything taken into account, is probably larger than the one of a regular car.

Source? They have lower maintenance costs, simpler to produce, greater longevity, which aside from the battery results in a necessarily lower footprint. The power generation is more efficient when done at scale, even at a dirty coal plant, than combustion to drive motion.

 

The battery is the only wildcard, so focus on that - but even that can find a second life at a residential installation. The next battery is supposed to yield 1 million miles, lasting 16 years (we will find out in two weeks), which should handily put those concerns to rest.

 

7 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

It's not working, batteries will stop at one moment, then you need to buy a new package and that will COST YOU a lot.

3 years and you have to change.

Tesla battery has an 8 year warranty.  Where did you get 3 years from?

 

It's good to be critical, but people should be researching these claims before repeating them. Don't you pause to think how these bogus claims began circulating? That there isn't a vested interest to slow down the transition? I know there are vested interests on both sides, but come on, you don't get much bigger than big oil.

Edited September 4, 2020 by jacob29

[Blumpie]

Sorry what does this have to do with COVID 19?  

LOL.

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, jacob29 said:

 

Source? 

There is the documentary produced by Michael Moore (link provided above by another member).

 

Then you might want to watch The Dark Side of Green Energy next Monday at 7 PM on Aljazeera

 

[digger70]

10 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

And the electricity comes from where exactly?

 

How does adding an extra stage to the process reduce pollution? Why not use the electricity directly to power the vehicle?

 

There's No pollution from making the Hydrogen Gas .One is using the The Cars Charging circuit for Power source  to run the Cell.

Making Electricity power for the Grid That's pollution and then the Car Manufactures and the Power Companies Making Billions . 

Keep it Simple, cut out the Expensive Electric cars and the Mass making,soon Very Expensive Dirty Electricity. .

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

Of course, the goal of electrification is not only to stay competitive – this is a must! – it also opens new opportunities for deepening the value chain.

Only if it's hydrogen. Batteries are a dead end, IMO. Polluting to make and polluting to dispose of.

Hydrogen solves most of the problems.

 

Anyway, where do they think the power to charge all those millions of batteries is going to come from? It's a nonsense, IMO.

Anyone that thinks Thailand can replace millions and millions of cars in a short time is IMO deluded. The only way is by replacement over time and that could take over 40 years.

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, digger70 said:

There's No pollution from making the Hydrogen Gas .One is using the The Cars Charging circuit for Power source  to run the Cell.

 

Really? And the power to run the charging circuit comes from where exactly?

 

Which stage is over 100% efficient? Are you saying that it uses less energy to split the water to HHO then you recover from re-combining it back to water?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, jacob29 said:

Estimates of AC runtime are in the ballpark of 100 hours. If by short journey you meant days stuck in heavy traffic, then sure we're not there yet.

 

Source? They have lower maintenance costs, simpler to produce, greater longevity, which aside from the battery results in a necessarily lower footprint. The power generation is more efficient when done at scale, even at a dirty coal plant, than combustion to drive motion.

 

The battery is the only wildcard, so focus on that - but even that can find a second life at a residential installation. The next battery is supposed to yield 1 million miles, lasting 16 years (we will find out in two weeks), which should handily put those concerns to rest.

 

Tesla battery has an 8 year warranty.  Where did you get 3 years from?

 

It's good to be critical, but people should be researching these claims before repeating them. Don't you pause to think how these bogus claims began circulating? That there isn't a vested interest to slow down the transition? I know there are vested interests on both sides, but come on, you don't get much bigger than big oil.

Not interested in anything that can't drive 7 hours with a 5 minute refill/ recharge.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, digger70 said:

Electrolysis: An electric current splits water into hydrogen and oxygen can make it at home .

 

 I made it with some  4" PVC pipe and some stainless steel plates a couple wires and a battery and added some salt to the water in the PVC pipe . Clean Power .The Trick to make it on the go in your car is tricky. the Fuel cell uses a lot off power . There are Many different Fuel cells on the Net but I made my own .

Submarines use electrolysis to make oxygen, with hydrogen as a by product. If they can do it simple enough to make hydrogen as the main product. Not even complicated technology. No shortage of water, is there?

 

The battery thing is a con, IMO by those that want to sell polluting batteries, and power companies.

 

Electric cars- ABSOLUTELY, but powered by fuel cell. Can even use hydrogen in a combusting motor, just like using LPG.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Electric, and hybrid vehicles are getting more efficient all the time. Battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds. They are the polar opposite of a super toxic diesel vehicle, from an environmental point of view. It is just a matter of time before electric vehicles replace nearly all gas guzzling vehicles. Ten years? Maybe 15, I predict nearly all gas, and the horrendous diesel vehicles will be obsolete.

 

Thailand would be very smart to support this trend, and even smarter, if they could get out in front of a growing trend, for a change. They have a history of being extremely regressive. Especially with the army in charge. Let us hope they can figure out a way to get in front of this, at least once. 

 

Many are predicting electric vehicles with a lifespan of 500,000 to one million miles. And required maintenance every 100,000 miles, or 162,500 kilometers. Hard to beat that. It is only a matter of time. An earlier study by Duke University underscored the health costs: each gallon of gasoline purchased at the gas station carries with it up to $3.80 in health and environmental costs. The diesel in big rigs and farm equipment is worse, with an additional $4.80 in social costs to our health and climate per gallon.

 

https://earthjustice.org/features/electric-vehicles-explainer

 

Electric cars are the future, and each year we've seen automakers add more EVs to their lineup. Everything including existing manufacturer EVs along with some new names such as Byton, Lordstown, and Rivian will be produced. We've compiled a list of every electric vehicle, from concept to starting production, that isn't available yet but will be soon.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/ev/

 

The decline is mathematical. With one-fifth the number of powertrain parts and an almost total elimination of oil (a), the typical automotive dealer will suffer 35% declines in maintenance and service revenue, or roughly $1,300, for an EV versus an internal combustion engine vehicle over a five-year period. But this disruption is not even. Two of the top three maintenance items — oil changes and brake service (24% and 5%, respectively, of all maintenance transactions in the U.S. market) — are reduced or eliminated entirely by the move to EVs. 

 

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/electric-vehicles-are-changing-the-future-of-auto-maintenance/

Agree that electric is the way, but not using batteries. Hydrogen either fuel cell or direct combustion is the way ahead, IMO.

 

BTW the technology to convert existing cars to electric propulsion has existed for years. No need to buy a super expensive Musk mobile.

[hotchilli]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

At the same time, Thai cities are seeking better air quality and lower noise levels for the health and the well-being of their residents.

Seeking but never finding the solution.... CM and other cities are an annual case in point.

[ramrod711]

15 hours ago, Thunder26 said:

It's all just talk but no action. If the people in charge really cared about pollution and climate change, then why the electric cars are still sold at exorbitant prices? If they want a positive change then there should be stimuli for people to purchase greener cars.

To trigger such development, Thailand needs a sound government strategy. Well that isn't going to happen. 5555

[Wullie Mercer]

16 hours ago, Brunolem said:

While I am all for clean energy, EVs are not the answer since their carbon footprint, once everything taken into account, is probably larger than the one of a regular car.

 

The first issue, of course, is: how is the electricity used to power the cars produced?

 

With coal (in Thailand)...thank you very much!

 

Then there is the massive pollution generated by the making of the batteries (extraction of lithium or other rare element) and their discarding.

 

As far as transportation is concerned, a better plan would be to facilitate and encourage as much as possible the use of public transport (metro, train, bus...) and hybrid cars.

Hydrogen load cells are the way forward for me.

[RocketDog]

20 hours ago, Susco said:

Don't think they run any power over telephone and internet wires

Well, not on purpose anyway. 

[RocketDog]

It will only happen here if cheap electronics are available to make even the tiniest vehicle sound like a throaty 10 ton diesel engine straining a heavy load uphill. Lots of flashing lights of various colors would also be persuasive. 

Cost savings could be realized however by making brakes, headlights, taillights, turn signals, horns, mirrors, seat belts, bumpers, and windshields optional. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by RocketDog
Addition

[Grumpy John]

14 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Hydrogen either in an IC engine or fuel cell is very clean (only water as the exhaust).

 

A simple question. Where does the hydrogen come from?

 

Hydrogen yes, fuel cells no.  On board hydrogen production using conversion kits are available now. Some are basic and benzine is still used in small quantities and some are able to start and run on hydrogen. Plenty of info about it on the net.  The big advantage is you convert an existing petrol/diesel powered vehicle that already has paid the environmental cost at yesterday price.  And what fuel is needed?  Clean water.  ????

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Grumpy John said:

Hydrogen yes, fuel cells no.  On board hydrogen production using conversion kits are available now. Some are basic and benzine is still used in small quantities and some are able to start and run on hydrogen. Plenty of info about it on the net.  The big advantage is you convert an existing petrol/diesel powered vehicle that already has paid the environmental cost at yesterday price.  And what fuel is needed?  Clean water.  ????

 

But you cannot run the vehicle on hydrogen generated on the vehicle. To do so would require at least one of the processes to be more than 100% efficient.

 

Hydrogen as a fuel is awkward stuff, it's difficult to store in any sensible quantity and has a nasty habit of blowing up in the event of a containment failure. I would not want to be anywhere near a re-fuelling station.

 

[DLock]

47 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Cost savings could be realized however by making brakes, headlights, taillights, turn signals, horns, mirrors, seat belts, bumpers, and windshields optional. 

 

They are in Thailand already...

[Grumpy John]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

But you cannot run the vehicle on hydrogen generated on the vehicle. To do so would require at least one of the processes to be more than 100% efficient.

 

Hydrogen as a fuel is awkward stuff, it's difficult to store in any sensible quantity and has a nasty habit of blowing up in the event of a containment failure. I would not want to be anywhere near a re-fuelling station.

 

It's do able.  Back in the early 2000 I did a graduate diploma course at Swinburne Uni in Hawthorn, Victoria, Au.  Electrotechnology-Renewable Energy.  As a field trip we went to a company in Clayton, Victoria to see a working prototype of a hydrogen system.  We each had to sign a document  of "None disclosure".  On the day we got to see a lot of the companies historic achievements (not common knowledge as they were applying for patents) in the development of hydrogen fuel cells and storage containers.  At the end we all got invited to be taken for a drive in their company cars (Hydrogen powered) for a several km trip.  Just like driving in a normal Holden Commodore!  One of the cars was a benzine/hydrogen powered unit.  I don't know what happened to the company but they may have been bought out by another company....like Shell or BP or Caltex or Esso.  It's happen many times in history so I think it's plausible.

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

But you cannot run the vehicle on hydrogen generated on the vehicle. To do so would require at least one of the processes to be more than 100% efficient.

 

Hydrogen as a fuel is awkward stuff, it's difficult to store in any sensible quantity and has a nasty habit of blowing up in the event of a containment failure. I would not want to be anywhere near a re-fuelling station.

 

If hydrogen is such a nasty stuff, then why are reputable companies including BMW and Toyota developing hydrogen fuel cell cars?

 

There are also US companies which build semi trailer trucks on hydrogen

Edited September 5, 2020 by Susco

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

If hydrogen is such a nasty stuff, then why are reputable companies including BMW and Toyota developing hydrogen fuel cell cars?

There is also a US companies which build semi trailer trucks on hydrogen

 

But there are many, many more working on improving battery technology.

 

I would rather be sat on a lithium battery than a 10,150psi gas tank in the event of a collision. 

https://www.designnews.com/batteryenergy-storage/first-details-bmw-i-hydrogen-next-fuel-cell-vehicle

But that's just me.

 

Compared to hydrogen there is a much more developed distribution system for electric power already in place. I could charge my EV at home over night, can you do that with a hydrogen vehicle?

 

Range isn't an issue for me (how far does the BMW go on the 6kg of H₂ it can store?).

 

EDIT Elsewhere on the BMW site it suggests that a FCEV will go about 100km per kg of H₂. So 600km range on the 6kg.

 

[Thomas J]

1. There is almost nothing dirtier than the mining and production of batteries. 

2. Lithium is so toxic that in the event of a car crash with an electric vehicle they send out the Hazardous Materials Unit to the scene of the crash in the USA

3. In the USA 40% of power comes from coal, 40% from natural gas, 10% from nuclear and 10% from wind/solar/hydro

So burning petroleum is bad, but burning coal, natural gas, and nuclear material to produce the electricity for cars is "good" 

Cant wait for the articles to start to appear in 20 years about the bio hazard from the disposal of auto batteries and the environmental disaster caused by the mining of lithium to produce car batteries.