UK PM Johnson appeals to party for support over controversial bill

[robblok]

Just now, transam said:

Proud of my country 75years back, yes, seems something you cannot understand..Sadly.

 

I think you have just shown your anti-British flag again....

 

As I said, the UK was unprepared but came to your aid, please stop digging yourself a bigger hole.

Trans I grant you this one you are right, i misread. About the unprepared thing.

[robblok]

Yea I can't understand nationalism. I feel its a stupid dangerous thing. It starts wars. 

 

I can understand people who themselves accomplish things and are proud of it. I just never saw the point to be proud about what others did while i had no hand in it. Same like i feel no shame about what my country did in the past. I was not involved so why should i feel bad about it.

 

I do find it strange how nationalism works one way, i mean proud for what you did 75 years ago but not for all the bad things your (and my country) did in the past. 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Herfiehandbag brought it up, i think he is a Brexiteer. Just follow the topic.

 

He made some comments about there being anti English people and i thought he refered to me. That is how this whole thing started. You should keep up.

You are responsible for what words you use and nobody else!

[transam]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yea I can't understand nationalism. I feel its a stupid dangerous thing. It starts wars. 

 

I can understand people who themselves accomplish things and are proud of it. I just never saw the point to be proud about what others did while i had no hand in it. Same like i feel no shame about what my country did in the past. I was not involved so why should i feel bad about it.

 

I do find it strange how nationalism works one way, i mean proud for what you did 75 years ago but not for all the bad things your (and my country) did in the past. 

I think you have made your own "personal" point very clear, you don't give a toss..........????

[robblok]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You are responsible for what words you use and nobody else!

I am, but i was not the one who brought it up. I guess your too lazy to read and follow the topic.

[robblok]

Just now, transam said:

I think you have made your own "personal" point very clear, you don't give a toss..........????

Indeed unlike you I don't need to steal honor of others to feel good. 

 

[vogie]

Just now, robblok said:

I am, but i was not the one who brought it up. I guess your too lazy to read and follow the topic.

Losing the arguement rob, now having to revert to insults, bye bye anti English man.

[transam]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Indeed unlike you I don't need to steal honor of others to feel good. 

 

Where have I done that..?

 

I think you should calm down and think before you post. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I, for one, don't. I have seen one fly-by poster post some anti-English comments on a previous thread but his was a fleeting visitation and he left with a flea in his ear, roundly condemned by all. Other than that, I know of nobody who posts 'anti English sentiment'. But if you do know, and the other poster remains too cowardly to put up, maybe you could enlighten us?

 

@vogie

 

Here is talk about anti English before i even mentioned it. So again I did not start it.

 

Not losing the argument

[robblok]

Just now, transam said:

Where have I done that..?

 

I think you should calm down and think before you post. 

Your proud about a war you did not participate in... that is stealing honor to make yourself feel good. Maybe you should think about nationalism a bit more what it it is.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

the appointment of the two top jobs in the EU, President of The European Commission (Ursula Von Der Leyen - Germany) and President of The European central Bank (Christine Lagarde - France) was shall we say "managed" recently?

President of the European Council is a Belgian. 

President of the European 

Parliament is an Italian. 

Of course what a top job is, is open to discussion. 

A fact however all "important" jobs have different nationalities. 

 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your proud about a war you did not participate in... that is stealing honor to make yourself feel good. Maybe you should think about nationalism a bit more what it it is.

You have a real comprehension problem that is digging a big hole, I am proud of my country, I will say again, I am proud of my country, your "stealing honour" comment is uncalled-for.

 

Retract it...

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

@vogie

 

Here is talk about anti English before i even mentioned it. So again I did not start it.

 

Not losing the argument

Being very selective in your choice of posts you are portraying as evidence, this is the post where you put your big foot in it.

The sheer arrogance of refuting something you have written only a while ago is truly unbelievable and totally astounding. Not only did you admit to being anti English, but you wrote that you hoped that the "EU would punish the English" call me old fashioned if you like but that is very nasty rob.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

To be completely honest, I do hope the EU does punish the English for this (so yea call me anti English) and I do hope the Scots break free because of this and other reasons. If that makes me anti English because i want the leaver to see how stupid their decision was then yes I am anti English.

 

I have no such problems with the ones that wanted to stay. Say maybe i am partly anti English ????

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I have no doubt that your English is of a commendably high standard - but please do not lead me into discussion of "American English" - on that too my views are partial!

 

Now of course my views on the negotiations are partial - I am firmly on one side of the divide which they are seeking, and failing, to bridge. I offer my interpretation of why. 

 

I am certainly not anti European. I speak French and German and have in my "previous life" (not in the Buddhist sense I hasten to add) lived and worked with people from both countries - as well as with the Dutch and the Danes. I am anti EU, certainly in it's present form and the path which it is taking. My point on the Franco-German hegemony (which I presume is where you discern anti European sentiment) is rather born out by the way in which the appointment of the two top jobs in the EU, President of The European Commission (Ursula Von Der Leyen - Germany) and President of The European central Bank (Christine Lagarde - France) was shall we say "managed" recently?

 

As for anti UK sentiment well, I could (but will not) name at least half a dozen regular posters here who virtually never post without including such sentiments - or perhaps more specifically anti English sentiments.

 

I also do appreciate our discussion on this BTW, it is honest and without the usual vitriol. But what is the point I wonder, see the 2 + pages of vitriol after your post. See how people react to posts with which they disagree.

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, Loiner said:

The EU made a threat to omit UK from a list of 'importers' to NI, calculated to force UK acceptance of their deal.

How do you "import to" a country ? One has to "import from" a country or "export to" a country, no?

Edited September 13, 2020 by NanLaew

[crobe]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

You have a real comprehension problem that is digging a big hole, I am proud of my country, I will say again, I am proud of my country, your "stealing honour" comment is uncalled-for.

 

Retract it...

I don't think he needs to retract it - everyone in Thailand is sick of the barstool Brits who claim to have served their country in the SAS/SBS and don't know the difference between a regiment and a corps.

You are obviously one of those

I hope you don't run across any real members when you are stealing honour - there is a way of dealing with that.

But picking and choosing which bit of history serves the purpose is difficult - seeing as we are in a time when we are re-evaluating history and countries involved in areas such as the slave trade

We can all be proud of our fathers serving, so did mine, but in Kenya for the Mau-Mau uprising - maybe not such an auspicious time.

Brexitters seem to think that only they are allowed to wrap themselves in the flag

 

 

[NanLaew]

33 minutes ago, transam said:

You have a real comprehension problem that is digging a big hole, I am proud of my country, I will say again, I am proud of my country, your "stealing honour" comment is uncalled-for.

 

Retract it...

!!! handbag alert  !!!

[izod10]

19 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Wow you come across as an angry man.

Buyers remorse perhaps?

Look you guys won. We are leaving the EU. However the EU IS a far bigger entity than little old UK. Its a fact mate. Get used to it. Being the first to flounce out does not mean anyone else will follow. Especial when they look at the UK's drama strewn departure. Its been a joke so far worthy of a Christmas panto.

So when it comes to negotiations between a huge trading group and an insignificant other party then guess who holds all the cards?

Yes its the other guys. The bigger boys.

Hey you voted for it. Enjoy what you have won and lets celebrate.

Bulgaria calls

[transam]

51 minutes ago, robblok said:

Indeed unlike you I don't need to steal honor of others to feel good. 

 

Perhaps you have none.....

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Its just crazy, anyway its a done thing let them leave. Then please give the Scots their chance too. Its a bit sad for those who did not want leave that they have to suffer all the economic problems because of those leavers.

 

Why I dislike it is just that it also damages the EU its economy (not as much as the UK economy) but still. I look at things from an economic point of view.

if the English have the right to brake the law then so do the Scotish, they should force the referendum & leave, it should work both ways or braking the law it's only acceptable if you are English

[evadgib]

22 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if the English have the right to brake the law then so do the Scotish, they should force the referendum & leave, it should work both ways or braking the law it's only acceptable if you are English

Methinks you've mixed your crotchets with your quavers...

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

You should direct your post in the right direction, Brexiteers didn't bring up the subject of being "anti English" 

I believe it was Herfiehandbag who brought up the subject of anti Englishness.

The other thread which has become derailed onto the same subject by Brexiteers is this one. 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1180660-uk-minister-surprised-by-scottish-independence-referendum-move/

 

Now excuse me but I'm seeing a trend here. When losing the argument on a thread you Brexiteers move it onto ground you are more comfortable with. Namely the victim status of the poor repressed English who it seems everyone hates.

I call this phenomenon the Calimero syndrome.

 

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, crobe said:

And there has not been a major war in Europe for 75 years, the Berlin wall has come down, the Balkans are now more peaceful than they have ever been and the Baltic states have been freed from Russian hegemony.

 

In all these the EU has been a major contributor, both in hard power and in diplomacy and the institution of the rule of law.

While it does not need the UK to do this, it has been strengthened by having the UK as a member during these times.

 

Lest we forget..

 

Lest we forget? You are talking cobblers. The Balkan issue was completely messed up by the EU and had to be sorted by the US and the UK.  

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

God man that old cow.. it has been eons ago that that happend. Had other countries not joined the war you lot would be speaking German too. You act like you won the war while in reality you played a minor part.

 

Having said that you did not even do anything, your quite old but not that old. Why bring something up like that. I think a lot Brits are living in the past. All that pounding on your chest for something you did not even play any part in. Its hilarious to be honest. People who havent done anything with their lives often become nationalistic. Your a great example.  WW2 ended 75 !!!!! years ago. You act like its still relevant.

If the result had been reversed, would it have not been relevant in that case?

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

How do you "import to" a country ? One has to "import from" a country or "export to" a country, no?

Crazy isn't it, but that's effectively what the EU would have us do. Between UK mainland GB and Northern Island it should not be possible to export and import, simply 'transport'. You can give your own definition if you like, but those are the words they are using.

 

However, if the EU does not list the UK on its' Third Country list, the EU would attempt to enforce its own rules and tariffs between two parts of the UK. Nobody would normally believe the EU threat to blockade movement of UK foodstuffs around the UK, but we are now hearing that unless we agree to the EU’s terms, the EU will use an extreme interpretation of the Northern Ireland protocol to impose a full-scale trade border down the Irish sea. Some might even think that the EU is trying to carve up the UK. Would Irish republicans be involved in this somewhere along the line, possibly with the connivance of scotch separatists too? Always possible in these torrid times.

 

Boris says "I have to say that we never seriously believed that the EU would be willing to use a Treaty, negotiated in good faith, to blockade one part of the UK, to cut it off; or that they would actually threaten to destroy the economic and territorial integrity of the UK." 

No wonder the Internal Market Bill is absolutely necessary to protect our Union and to override the EU's trickery after agreement of the WA.

[bannork]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Crazy isn't it, but that's effectively what the EU would have us do. Between UK mainland GB and Northern Island it should not be possible to export and import, simply 'transport'. You can give your own definition if you like, but those are the words they are using.

 

However, if the EU does not list the UK on its' Third Country list, the EU would attempt to enforce its own rules and tariffs between two parts of the UK. Nobody would normally believe the EU threat to blockade movement of UK foodstuffs around the UK, but we are now hearing that unless we agree to the EU’s terms, the EU will use an extreme interpretation of the Northern Ireland protocol to impose a full-scale trade border down the Irish sea. Some might even think that the EU is trying to carve up the UK. Would Irish republicans be involved in this somewhere along the line, possibly with the connivance of scotch separatists too? Always possible in these torrid times.

 

Boris says "I have to say that we never seriously believed that the EU would be willing to use a Treaty, negotiated in good faith, to blockade one part of the UK, to cut it off; or that they would actually threaten to destroy the economic and territorial integrity of the UK." 

No wonder the Internal Market Bill is absolutely necessary to protect our Union and to override the EU's trickery after agreement of the WA.

The WA says the UK is responsible for organising the border checks between NI and the rest of the UK. The EU are only to observe, i.e. have an office somewhere in NI 

[Loiner]

25 minutes ago, bannork said:

The WA says the UK is responsible for organising the border checks between NI and the rest of the UK. The EU are only to observe, i.e. have an office somewhere in NI 

So have they changed their minds and are not keeping to the WA? Looks like it. Cue Remainers and Euros outrage? I think not.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Crazy isn't it, but that's effectively what the EU would have us do. Between UK mainland GB and Northern Island it should not be possible to export and import, simply 'transport'. You can give your own definition if you like, but those are the words they are using.

 

However, if the EU does not list the UK on its' Third Country list, the EU would attempt to enforce its own rules and tariffs between two parts of the UK. Nobody would normally believe the EU threat to blockade movement of UK foodstuffs around the UK, but we are now hearing that unless we agree to the EU’s terms, the EU will use an extreme interpretation of the Northern Ireland protocol to impose a full-scale trade border down the Irish sea. Some might even think that the EU is trying to carve up the UK. Would Irish republicans be involved in this somewhere along the line, possibly with the connivance of scotch separatists too? Always possible in these torrid times.

 

Boris says "I have to say that we never seriously believed that the EU would be willing to use a Treaty, negotiated in good faith, to blockade one part of the UK, to cut it off; or that they would actually threaten to destroy the economic and territorial integrity of the UK." 

No wonder the Internal Market Bill is absolutely necessary to protect our Union and to override the EU's trickery after agreement of the WA.

How is transport between mainland Europe and Ireland with overland transport via England treated? Export and import or transport?

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Methinks you've mixed your crotchets with your quavers...

really ??? instead of your non sense why don't you proof me wrong, just answer yes or no nothing else, can you do that?

in regards to the UK intention to amended the EU agreement bill, is England trying to brake the law   YES or NO

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

really ??? instead of your non sense why don't you proof me wrong, just answer yes or no nothing else, can you do that?

in regards to the UK intention to amended the EU agreement bill, is England trying to brake the law   YES or NO

How can anyone answer that Mavideol, none of us are lawyers, but even lawyers are finding it a moot subject, no two lawyers say the same thing. That said, the UK is sick and tired of Barniers threats, he is certainly not negotiating in good faith, nor has he ever. He has to realise that the UK has left the EU and if he cannot accept that we do not want to be tied to EU regs and regulations, he has a very big problem. However he did concede that UK waters were sovereign but we didn't have a say who fishes them, the man is either a big bully or a fool, take your pick.

Boris is doing what is best for the UK and that is why the Euros and remainers don't like it, and by Boris standing up to the bullies it gives him more power to his elbow.