UK PM Johnson appeals to party for support over controversial bill

[Opl]

12 hours ago, candide said:

Happy memories! ????

 

'Fantastic moment': Boris Johnson signs Brexit withdrawal deal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/24/sombre-eu-leaders-sign-brexit-withdrawal-agreement

in January,

but one month later, February 23

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-team-seeks-to-evade-irish-sea-checks-on-goods-mv3pqjkcm

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

in January,

but one month later, February 23

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-team-seeks-to-evade-irish-sea-checks-on-goods-mv3pqjkcm

Seems like Boris quite quickly realized he signed something he didn’t have a clue about and decided he would have to break international law to “fix” what his incompetence causes. What a clown. 

[vogie]

Next step for the EU is to replace Mr Barnier with someone more competent and able.

Edited September 15, 2020 by vogie

[welovesundaysatspace]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Next step for the EU has to replace Mr Barnier with someone more competent and able.

You wish. 

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

It looks like this to me 

1) Boris touts the original agreement as a triumph.

2) Boris wants to change the agreement and asks for support for his new move which will apparently be good for all the UK.

 

WAS HE RIGHT FIRST TIME OR SECOND TIME?

WAS HE LYING THEN OR NOW?

 

Any one with even the tiniest brain can realise that there is a contradiction here. That is what you have been asking Brexiteers to address, and they have put huge effort into avoiding commenting on it. Why was it so wonderful then, and so bad now? Can't Boris and his chums read what they are signing?

Boris is simply clearing up a contradiction in the WA, not creating one. Sheesh, so much drama from the poor losers.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/11/the-eu-cant-handle-british-independence/

 

 

The EU shouldn't have threatened to ban all food imports from Britain to NI. When you run your mouth and threaten the integrity of a sovereign nation there can be consequences. Once again the EU tries to play dirty and ends up crying after a swift kick in the balls.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, englishoak said:

Its passed the first stage easily... 360 to 263.

 

What none of the MSM mentions is the DUP are 100% behind this change and for good reason.. NI is part of the UK and any possibility of tariffs to any UK region from another is totally unacceptable and tbh deplorable it should even be mentioned in passing by the EU let alone agreed to in the beginning by the UK gov, but i guess it was move forward and rehash later at the time, that time is now since Barnier brought up the threat in negotiations.. more fool him.  

 

It will pass and that will be that...despite the yapping and pearl clutching..  the EU can still have a deal if they change their tune of dummy out the pram throwing or not... No deal is acceptable to most now in the UK and no surprise should it happen.. thanks to Barnier and Co.

 

 

 

 

Yeah it will get through the democratically elected house of Commons but the wholly undemocratic, pro EU, Remainer House of Lords will no doubt cause problems and delays.

 

And no doubt the Remainers on here will be cheering the unDemocratic Lords again, they are always very quick to abandon their democratic principles if it means a chance of getting their own way.

 

Of course, they'll lose again. As they always do after delaying the process and embarrassing themselves and the nation.

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Boris is simply clearing up a contradiction in the WA, not creating one. Sheesh, so much drama from the poor losers.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/11/the-eu-cant-handle-british-independence/

 

 

The EU shouldn't have threatened to ban all food imports from Britain to NI. When you run your mouth and threaten the integrity of a sovereign nation there can be consequences. Once again the EU tries to play dirty and ends up crying after a swift kick in the balls.

Where has the EU said its going to ban all food imports from Britain to NI?

[vogie]

26 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You wish. 

And you don't? of course we would like to see the UK get a good deal from the EU, if the EU doesn't want to get a good deal from the UK can I suggest there is something lacking in their approach to these 'negotiations'. Barnier is not looking for a deal, he sees this as a perfect opportunity to hurt the UK and indeed split up the UK and is quite prepared to cut his own nose off to spite his face. If that doesn't warrant a change in leaders, what does?

 

[GeorgeCross]

the bill just passed.

 

bully boy tactics from the EU with an appropriate response.

 

don't ever try to blackmail us again.

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Yeah it will get through the democratically elected house of Commons but the wholly undemocratic, pro EU, Remainer House of Lords will no doubt cause problems and delays.

 

And no doubt the Remainers on here will be cheering the unDemocratic Lords again, they are always very quick to abandon their democratic principles if it means a chance of getting their own way.

 

Of course, they'll lose again. As they always do after delaying the process and embarrassing themselves and the nation.

The EU should just say enough is enough.

There is no deal and there will be a hard border in Ireland because the UK is no longer in the EU.

Bye bye UK. Enjoy your fish.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Where has the EU said its going to ban all food imports from Britain to NI?

Multiple reports all over the press and the UK's chief negotiator himself confirmed it as shown below. Obviously you won't believe him and will take the EU's word instead (although I haven't seen any official denial from the EU that they made the threat which you would absolutely expect if Frost was making it up).

 

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The EU should just say enough is enough.

There is no deal and there will be a hard border in Ireland because the UK is no longer in the EU.

Bye bye UK. Enjoy your fish.

Why would they do that when they could just agree a simple, mutually beneficial Canada style trade deal?

 

All these problems disappear instantly if the EU takes a reasonable stance. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture without your Blue and Gold glasses on. It's the logical solution.

[Opl]

26 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Why would they do that when they could just agree a simple, mutually beneficial Canada style trade deal?

 

All these problems disappear instantly if the EU takes a reasonable stance. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture without your Blue and Gold glasses on. It's the logical solution.

The bigger frame:  the UK is demanding a trade deal agreement without the obligation to respect it.

The bigger picture:  due to COVID, a no-deal would be just a little extra pain to cope with

The reasonable stance for the EU is to never let the Single Market borders under control of the UK.

The logical solution : let's see what a no-deal brings that is "mutually beneficial"

Edited September 15, 2020 by Opl

[JonnyF]

44 minutes ago, vogie said:

And you don't? of course we would like to see the UK get a good deal from the EU, if the EU doesn't want to get a good deal from the UK can I suggest there is something lacking in their approach to these 'negotiations'. Barnier is not looking for a deal, he sees this as a perfect opportunity to hurt the UK and indeed split up the UK and is quite prepared to cut his own nose off to spite his face. If that doesn't warrant a change in leaders, what does?

 

Absolutely. 4 and a half years to get a deal and he gets nothing. That is a failure, and the EU states and industries that suffer as a result will be under no illusions as to who is responsible on the EU side. I believe his position will become untenable.

 

Ironically, given his spectacular failure he'll probably be in line for the top job next time it's up for election selection.

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, Opl said:

The bigger frame:  the UK is demanding a trade deal agreement without the obligation to respect it.

The bigger picture:  due to COVID, a no-deal would be just a little extra pain to cope with

The reasonable stance for the EU is to never let the Single Market borders under control of the UK.

The logical solution : let's see what a no-deal brings

I'd agree that a No Deal is absolutely NOT a massive issue. I've been saying that for years, with or without C19.

 

An FTA is desirable but not essential. The EU does a Billion Euros a day with China with no FTA. The UK already has the same standards and regulatory alignment with the EU and is right on the doorstep so if it works with China it can work with the UK. I'm glad Remainers are finally realizing this.

 

The EU must build and manage it's own borders if they are so paranoid about the integrity of the single market. Let them erect their hard border between the north and the south and let them take responsibility for any issues that arise. If a few uncollected tariffs are more important to them than the peace process, let them take full responsibility for that stance.

Edited September 15, 2020 by JonnyF

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Where has the EU said its going to ban all food imports from Britain to NI?

Within the negotiations, the details of which are not available as far as I know. I think David Frost raised the alarm.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

The EU should just say enough is enough.

There is no deal and there will be a hard border in Ireland because the UK is no longer in the EU.

Bye bye UK. Enjoy your fish.

Then how great would the EU look if that happened? It may be what you want but you won't get it.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Why would they do that when they could just agree a simple, mutually beneficial Canada style trade deal?

 

All these problems disappear instantly if the EU takes a reasonable stance. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture without your Blue and Gold glasses on. It's the logical solution.

Yes, good faith, I think it's called.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

It looks like this to me 

1) Boris touts the original agreement as a triumph.

2) Boris wants to change the agreement and asks for support for his new move which will apparently be good for all the UK.

 

WAS HE RIGHT FIRST TIME OR SECOND TIME?

WAS HE LYING THEN OR NOW?

 

Any one with even the tiniest brain can realise that there is a contradiction here. That is what you have been asking Brexiteers to address, and they have put huge effort into avoiding commenting on it. Why was it so wonderful then, and so bad now? Can't Boris and his chums read what they are signing?

I didn't avoid it but it took some effort. ???? 

[MarcelV]

Crikey! This has turned out to be a real mess we got ourselves in.

Look y'all, I ain't sayin that us Brits should take everythin the EU throw at us, you know. But we ain't no chums or bogans, aight, and should respect international law. We may be an amazing country, but look at what this whole Brexit thing got us into, you know what I'm sayin?

This ain't no laughing matter innit?

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

The EU should just say enough is enough.

There is no deal and there will be a hard border in Ireland because the UK is no longer in the EU.

Bye bye UK. Enjoy your fish.

The words of a British citizen....????.....

Thank you for confirming your stance on the UK that you belong too...Deplorable, even treacherous.....????

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Why would they do that when they could just agree a simple, mutually beneficial Canada style trade deal?

 

All these problems disappear instantly if the EU takes a reasonable stance. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture without your Blue and Gold glasses on. It's the logical solution.

What now you want a deal?

Before you were demanding WTO terms.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

And you don't?

Not necessarily because...

 

Quote

Barnier is not looking for a deal,

...his mandate is to protect the single market, which is worth much more than the 7-8% UK market. 
 

Quote

he sees this as a perfect opportunity to hurt the UK and indeed split up the UK and is quite prepared to cut his own nose off to spite his face. If that doesn't warrant a change in leaders, what does?
 

He’s just the frontman representing the 27 nations, so they can focus on the real issues — Russia, China, Covid, etc. 

 

This FT article is quite on point: Germany has more pressing concerns than Brexit: Viewed from Berlin, it would be dangerous and self-defeating to agree a Brexit deal that undermines the single market. As the Germans see it, allowing the UK tariff and quota-free access to that market — while exempting the country from the EU’s state-aid regulations and border controls — would pose an unacceptable threat to Europe’s legal order, prosperity and unity.”

 

And “if you want to hear British-style understatement these days, you need to go to Germany. The political atmosphere in London is hysterical and insular. It is the Germans who are thinking globally and whose maxim now seems to be: “keep calm and carry on”.

 

(https://www.ft.com/content/e9b7b193-47d4-4887-abe1-2c12f344922a)

Edited September 15, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Multiple reports all over the press and the UK's chief negotiator himself confirmed it as shown below. Obviously you won't believe him and will take the EU's word instead (although I haven't seen any official denial from the EU that they made the threat which you would absolutely expect if Frost was making it up).

 

Like I would believe Frost.

But even if this is true then its even more reason for an immediate end to the talks and a no deal Brexit.

Job done.

[Rookiescot]

38 minutes ago, transam said:

The words of a British citizen....????.....

Thank you for confirming your stance on the UK that you belong too...Deplorable, even treacherous.....????

You voted for it.

This is Brexit.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Then how great would the EU look if that happened? It may be what you want but you won't get it.

This is hilarious. Now when faced with Brexit you guys are demanding a deal.

What happened to WTO is what we want?

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

He’s just the frontman representing the 27 nations, so they can focus on the real issues — Russia, China, Covid, etc. 

How can he be representing the 27 nations when there will be 10s of thousand job losses all across europe, an estimated 100,000 jobs will go in Ireland alone, he is cutting his nose off to spite his face. His plan to split up the UK as been foiled, he is a failure, Merkal herself as said that she will want to negotiate to the very last minute of this so called EU fiasco.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

This is hilarious. Now when faced with Brexit you guys are demanding a deal.

What happened to WTO is what we want?

Tie one on last night, Rookie?

[transam]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You voted for it.

This is Brexit.

No, the UK voted for it, but Brits like you want the UK to fail because you didn't get what you voted for.

Once again, thank you for showing your true colours, which are not, red, white and blue...

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

31 minutes ago, vogie said:

How can he be representing the 27 nations when there will be 10s of thousand job losses all across europe, an estimated 100,000 jobs will go in Ireland alone, he is cutting his nose off to spite his face.

Maybe you should explain how the one negates the other, especially in light of the explanation I provided in my post before. 

 

31 minutes ago, vogie said:

His plan to split up the UK as been foiled, he is a failure, Merkal herself as said that she will want to negotiate to the very last minute of this so called EU fiasco.

You’re really still hoping for Merkel and the German auto industry to come to your last-minute rescue on a white horse? Again, please refer to my previous reply to understand why that won’t happen, and why there won’t be a trade deal that goes against the single market. Just accept it and move on; the positions have been incompatible from the very beginning and we are just wasting time here.