Retirement visa denied -Bank balance below 800k within 3 months of receiving visa

[JaneM]

On 9/12/2020 at 11:04 AM, Onrai said:

Phuket immigration denied my retirement visa renewal for not maintaining an 800,000 baht bank balance 3 months following my first visa. All other visa requirements are in order- residency, 800,000 in bank prior to applying etc. Immigration official’s only suggestion is leave the country and reapply. I don’t see this as a viable option or a reasonable solution. The only other option is to pay an immigration service 25,000 baht to get the visa. Does anyone have experience with this issue and another solution? Thanks for the help.

Had the same problem, wasn't aware of the new rule that wants you to maintain the 800.000 for 3 months after renewing your visa. They basically told me the same thing, leave the country come back on a 30 day visa and start over. With borders closed that's no option. I paid 10.000 to a Pattaya Visa agent and I was good to go within 48 hours.

[checkered flag]

2 minutes ago, JaneM said:

Had the same problem, wasn't aware of the new rule that wants you to maintain the 800.000 for 3 months after renewing your visa. They basically told me the same thing, leave the country come back on a 30 day visa and start over. With borders closed that's no option. I paid 10.000 to a Pattaya Visa agent and I was good to go within 48 hours.

So your error in judgement cost you 10K, plus some grief. I guess they didn't check last year.

[stouricks]

38 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

no need to blame the guy

 

farangs do not need to be a member of TV when living in thailand

 

immigration should have made him sign a paper that 800k should remain for 3 months

The OP has been a member for over 12 months so should have read one of the many threads regarding the 800k in that time.

Even if not a member of TV, it is up to the person applying for the extension, retirement or marriage, to know EXACTLY what the requirements are, when they change, and to comply. Otherwise it's no extension! They make the rules so if we want to stay here, we stick to their rules.

[checkered flag]

44 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

no need to blame the guy

 

farangs do not need to be a member of TV when living in thailand

 

immigration should have made him sign a paper that 800k should remain for 3 months

Sorry, it's called personal responsibility. I agree that there is no need to read or be amember of TVF, but putting the responsibility of the TI officer is wrong. 

He probably got away with it last year and got burned this year.

[surfinglife]

This requirement has been in force for a while but this is the first time I've heard of it being enforced. I dig into my 800k immediately after getting my renewal at Jomtien, so do other people I know. A bit of a worry if that's going to be more frequently enforced.

[Mike Teavee]

17 minutes ago, surfinglife said:

This requirement has been in force for a while but this is the first time I've heard of it being enforced. I dig into my 800k immediately after getting my renewal at Jomtien, so do other people I know. A bit of a worry if that's going to be more frequently enforced.

So you knowingly break the rules around your extension?

 

That's crazy... especially at Jomtien where they expect you to turn up after 90 days to prove the 800K is still there.... Presumably you won't be going back after 90 days to show them this. 

 

Does anybody know if there is any penalty for not reporting back after 90 days & if you did report and couldn't show the 800K was still there would your extension be cancelled (presumably replaced with a 7-day to get out of the country stamp) or would you still be OK for the remainder of the extension but won't be able to extend next time. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[ubonjoe]

38 minutes ago, surfinglife said:

This requirement has been in force for a while but this is the first time I've heard of it being enforced.

Not sure I would consider March 1st of 2019 as being in force for a while.

It certainly has been a requirement and has been enforced for those that applied for extension of stay based upon retirement after that day.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Does anybody know if there is any penalty for not reporting back after 90 days & if you did report and couldn't show the 800K was still there would your extension be cancelled (presumably replaced with a 7-day to get out of the country stamp) or would you still be OK for the remainder of the extension but won't be able to extend next time. 

 

I don't recall any reports of the 800k baht and then 400k baht being enforced until a person went to apply for their new extension this year.

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't recall any reports of the 800k baht and then 400k baht being enforced until a person went to apply for their new extension this year.

My friend was asked this year, at his 90 day report. He doesn't touch his 800K so was fine. It's the first time they asked. 

I prove 65K+ monthly transfers and wasn't asked, but why would they. 

[Grusa]

So, given all these scams, why  not:-

1. pay the agent and get the visa/extension/whatever,

2. photograph/record and document the process, secretly,

3. dob the whole corrupt lot of them in, in return for immunity for prosecution.

 

I dream again, it could never happen. Don't even think about it, suicide is painless.

[scubascuba3]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:39 PM, zzzzz said:

actually if you already have a non o, it will cost ya 14,000 for a 1 year extension.

Been there.... done that  ????

 

Actually 12,500 + reentry, some agents charge more for nothing 

[BritTim]

30 minutes ago, Grusa said:

Don't even think about it, suicide is painless.

Are you stating this from personal experience?

[JackThompson]

38 minutes ago, Grusa said:

...
3. dob the whole corrupt lot of them in, in return for immunity for prosecution.

As The Hague would likely not take the case, and no one in the chain who is not in on the operation - one could leave Thailand forever, and put the evidence on You Tube. 

 

If I am ever given x-mo to live, that's near the top of my bucket-list - with a connected "lawyer" and his "district level" IO in the sting - the ones who break up families for their money.

[CANSIAM]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:00 AM, ukrules said:

You've been treated very badly and they simply don't care at all.

 

In fact I think it makes them happy when something like this happens, this rule was introduced for one reason only - to discourage and deter people from staying in Thailand.

 

When there's nobody left it will be mission accomplished, they're getting there much quicker than I had anticipated due to COVID.

 

Sadly all IO prefer to see you there with an agent. You are there alone trying to wrap up another year for 1900 - 5000 baht chances are it may go wrong......

[Grusa]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Are you stating this from personal experience?

Hardly likely, don't you think? T V forum is not a ouija board.......not that one could tell.

[ubonjoe]

43 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

Sadly all IO prefer to see you there with an agent.

What about the majority of about 80 immigration offices that are located where agents are not available. I would guess less than 10 have agents working with them.

[473geo]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

What about the majority of about 80 immigration offices that are located where agents are not available. I would guess less than 10 have agents working with them.

Maybe a job creation effort is in order, must be frustrating for the IO to have a subject sit in front of him, struggling with both the language and incomplete paperwork, then getting the hump because he has failed to fulfil his obligations

[Tchooptip]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:36 PM, Onrai said:

As I said-We (thai girlfriend and me) spent a lot of time with the immigration officer, taking notes and making sure we understood the renewal guidelines. Unfortunately, they didn’t include the 3 months after in their written guidelines. As for not knowing because it was posted so many times thai visa forum-I generally get some snarky, unhelpful comment, like your comment, which makes me want to steer clear of asking any questions or reading tv.

"Unfortunately, they didn’t include the 3 months after in their written guidelines" 

Bad luck really!

 

But if anyone here asks a question about anything concerning the visas, 99,9% of the time, among many answers by some members you'll find an answer of the moderator ubonjoe his answers are precise and correct 100% of the time, I am sorry for what happened to you, unfortunately I guess you did not know.  

[scotsman]

I am sure the OP has fixed this problem by changing to marriage extension, but If he had used the visa Agent to fix it, then he would have been stuck with a visa Agent the next time if the borders are not open by then.  My reasoning for this is that you get a retirement extension only from using the visa Agent you don't have to go back in 3 or 4 months to prove you have the 400k left or anything like that. But come the next year's extension and you try to do it by yourself they will also refuse you as you can't show the money was in your bank for the one you got from the visa Agent the year before, that will go for the Marriage one as well.  As they will want to see the money did not dip below the 800k and you had 400k at that time. 

So you would have to always use a Visa Agent until the Borders are open again to go and get a new Category O from outside Thailand to start again.    

Correct me if my thinking is wrong.

regards 

Scotsman 

[patient37]

9 minutes ago, scotsman said:

I am sure the OP has fixed this problem by changing to marriage extension, but If he had used the visa Agent to fix it, then he would have been stuck with a visa Agent the next time if the borders are not open by then.  My reasoning for this is that you get a retirement extension only from using the visa Agent you don't have to go back in 3 or 4 months to prove you have the 400k left or anything like that. But come the next year's extension and you try to do it by yourself they will also refuse you as you can't show the money was in your bank for the one you got from the visa Agent the year before, that will go for the Marriage one as well.  As they will want to see the money did not dip below the 800k and you had 400k at that time. 

So you would have to always use a Visa Agent until the Borders are open again to go and get a new Category O from outside Thailand to start again.    

Correct me if my thinking is wrong.

regards 

Scotsman 

That's correct..

But if you are using an agent like TVC its only 14,000 THB we are talking about.

This is much cheaper than having to leave the country, and reentering on whatever the new conditions will be (insurance, quarantine...).

[CANSIAM]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What about the majority of about 80 immigration offices that are located where agents are not available. I would guess less than 10 have agents working with them.

I'm sure most don't have any issues at all like yourself. I do believe an agent makes the process more smooth for a few dollars more,  even if one has all his documents in order and required funds.   

[checkered flag]

5 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

I'm sure most don't have any issues at all like yourself. I do believe an agent makes the process more smooth for a few dollars more,  even if one has all his documents in order and required funds.   

Visa agent are a legitimate way to go for those who can't understand the rules and the agent can take the time to make sure everything is properly done. The fact that the OP stated that he and the GF took copious notes tells a lot. For me the process has always been very simple and I have no need to make a lot of notes. Sounds to me the OP isn't well organized or is making a story to gain sympathy/attention. 

Maybe not having access to the 800K deposit for 5-6 months,the OP was having money problems. Anyway I fell sorry for the guy and hope he can solve his problem.

This is also a good heads up to others on Non O retirement visa who use the 800K in the bank for financials. 

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, scotsman said:

I am sure the OP has fixed this problem by changing to marriage extension, but If he had used the visa Agent to fix it, then he would have been stuck with a visa Agent the next time if the borders are not open by then.  My reasoning for this is that you get a retirement extension only from using the visa Agent you don't have to go back in 3 or 4 months to prove you have the 400k left or anything like that. But come the next year's extension and you try to do it by yourself they will also refuse you as you can't show the money was in your bank for the one you got from the visa Agent the year before, that will go for the Marriage one as well.  As they will want to see the money did not dip below the 800k and you had 400k at that time. 

So you would have to always use a Visa Agent until the Borders are open again to go and get a new Category O from outside Thailand to start again.    

Correct me if my thinking is wrong.

regards 

Scotsman 

If skipping the money in the bank during the last year for retirement - yes, agent-only the next year.

 

Marriage - only have to prove 2-mo with 400k pre-application, so no agent the next year.

Retirement - if he has 800K when applying, then 800K for 3 more months, then 400K until the 800K top-up 2-mo before next time, would be OK.
 

This would only change, if the IOs started demanding TWO years of bank-statements for every new application, in which case it would take two years of agent + correct bank-balance to escape the agent-money payoff cycle.

Edited September 14, 2020 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

Visa agent are a legitimate way to go for those who can't understand the rules and the agent can take the time to make sure everything is properly done. The fact that the OP stated that he and the GF took copious notes tells a lot. For me the process has always been very simple and I have no need to make a lot of notes. Sounds to me the OP isn't well organized or is making a story to gain sympathy/attention. 

...

From experience, the IOs will not provide any information in printed form at some offices.  That way, IOs can keep changing the rules at each attempt to apply.  Others provide a list, but it is often different than the "official" list (Saumi's medical, Jomtien's landlord-docs, etc). 

 

IOs would be visibly angry when my wife would read-back their "new rules" list - which had been presented rapidly and unclearly - and ask if it was complete. 

 

Granted, my experiences (multiple-offices) were for Thai-family based, for which more "official" and made-up rules are used to block an application.  Retirement-based extensions are made much easier, for some unknown reason - including MUCH lower IO-Agent-Partner fees, if going that route.

Edited September 14, 2020 by JackThompson

[checkered flag]

7 hours ago, scotsman said:

I am sure the OP has fixed this problem by changing to marriage extension, but If he had used the visa Agent to fix it, then he would have been stuck with a visa Agent the next time if the borders are not open by then.  My reasoning for this is that you get a retirement extension only from using the visa Agent you don't have to go back in 3 or 4 months to prove you have the 400k left or anything like that. But come the next year's extension and you try to do it by yourself they will also refuse you as you can't show the money was in your bank for the one you got from the visa Agent the year before, that will go for the Marriage one as well.  As they will want to see the money did not dip below the 800k and you had 400k at that time. 

So you would have to always use a Visa Agent until the Borders are open again to go and get a new Category O from outside Thailand to start again.    

Correct me if my thinking is wrong.

regards 

Scotsman 

The starting over with a new Non O from outside the country was a way to avoid the financial requirement for Thai bank deposits for those who couldn't or for whatever reason refused to but the required deposits in a Thai bank.

For those with limited resources the Non O marriage would seem better because, I don't believe, the money needs to stay in the account after the visa is approved (by HQs). That said Non O marriage is more complex and approval needs to be sent to HQs for final approval and usually requires a second trip to the immigration office after a month or so. 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If skipping the money in the bank during the last year for retirement - yes, agent-only the next year.

...

When borders are open again, there is also the option of doing a border-run and either

- returning Visa exempt and re-apply for a new 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement;

- applying at the Thai consulate in Savannakhet for a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, and apply for the 1-year extension of stay from that one.  Note that the ME Non Imm O retirement Visa would skip the need for parking/transferring funds on a Thai bank-account, with NO need to visit IO during the 15 months it can provide you.

>> The first option (returning Visa Exempt) is actually often suggested by IO to those whose application is refused because not fully meeting the financial requirements (e.g. a blooper they made and slipping below the 800K/400K treshold). 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Peter Denis

[checkered flag]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When borders are open again, there is also the option of doing a border-run and either

- returning Visa exempt and re-apply for a new 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement;

- applying at the Thai consulate in Savannakhet for a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, and apply for the 1-year extension of stay from that one.  Note that the ME Non Imm O retirement Visa would skip the need for parking/transferring funds on a Thai bank-account, with NO need to visit IO during the 15 months it can provide you.

>> The above is actually often suggested by IO to those whose application is refused because not fully meeting the financial requirements (e.g. a blooper they made and slipping below the 800K/400K treshold). 

OK I get it that you're a fan of border runs and not keeping money in a Thai bank, but what do you do now that the borders are closed. Are you going home and wait for things to change?

Since some Thai consulates have stricter rules, I would be willing to guess those with relaxed rules will be told to tighten up their practices. If this happens then the practice of yearly border runs for new visa might be over. They've already done this with Non O Ed visas. 

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

... the practice of yearly border runs for new visa might be over. They've already done this with Non O Ed visas. 

You mean the "get a new passport" rule, for some Visa applications?  The staff there will tell you to do exactly that.  And the rule is 1-year for ED at Vientiane - no more than 1 per 12 months, last report I read.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

OK I get it that you're a fan of border runs and not keeping money in a Thai bank, but what do you do now that the borders are closed. Are you going home and wait for things to change?

Since some Thai consulates have stricter rules, I would be willing to guess those with relaxed rules will be told to tighten up their practices. If this happens then the practice of yearly border runs for new visa might be over. They've already done this with Non O Ed visas. 

No, wrong assumptions.

1 - I started my post with 'When borders are open again'

2 - My post was an addition to @JackThompson to highlight that there are also other simple options besides an Agent when not being able to meet the financial requirements for your retirement extension.  Obviously these options are not feasible now < see 1 >.

 

Note: And I am not 'a fan' of border-runs, although it is relatively easy for me living very close to the cambodian border. 

Presently living in Thailand on a Non Imm O-A Visa (which I will renew every 1-2 years, so no need to EVER visit an IO, nor the need to park/transfer money to a Thai bank-account).

[Almer]

On 9/12/2020 at 11:15 AM, petermik said:

Your stuffed sorry...bite the bullet and pay the 25,000

Agreed