Advice on moving to another province for retirement visa and proof of income

[mikem20]

Hi
Can anybody advice me what is the correct way to move to another province, and IO jurisdiction, that is absolutely above reproach by any IO? I am now on a TR and covered by the amnesty. I like to move, for real, to girlfriend's province and see if the IO there is any friendlier than in the big towns.

Is it only a matter of filing a TM.30 at the local IO and then I can proceed with applying for 30 days extension there and then a long term visa? Are there any more forms to fill to be properly registered in the new province/IO?

 

I am seeking a visa on the basis of retirement for +50 for the first time, not an extension.

Aren't embassy/consulate income letters supposed to be accepted at face value at all IOs? As per the Thai immigration's document for +50 retirement non-O that is so often posted here when someone asks what they need. 
I have a letter from my consulate proving monthly pension of more than 65.000 baht, together with all the reference documents showing the source of the income. My IO wont even look at them.
In my attempts at my local IO I have on one occasion been told that I need to take the letter to the Department of Consular Affairs in Bangkok to have it verified and stamped. On another I was told I would ALSO need to prove income by showing income of 65.000 baht a month into a Thai bank account. I was also told the same at CW when I went to inquire there, I would need to show bank transfers. I have shown visa agents that I have all the documents in order and they've even called their contacts in IO but it doesn't matter. All they want is a less than truthful statement from a Thai bank.

This contradicts everything I've been reading on this forum about prove of income. I've never seen it mentioned that with a embassy/consulate letter of income you need to show monthly transfers of 65.000 baht to a Thai bank too. Then there is no purpose to the letter. Is this some new rule or just a new blocking tactic to push towards agent money? Can anyone advice on this?

 

How about the rental receipts for past three months when just moved? For the last three months I would have been paying rent in another province and for starters I am only planning on renting a cheap room by the month in the new town. Would that complicate things? Are you required to stay in the same place for three months prior to applying for a retirement visa? And what if register in family's home with no rental agreement or receipts?

 

Thanks if anyone can help.

[BritTim]

You have my sympathy. Certainly, the normal practice until recently has been to accept embassy letters. At most, Immigration normally only wants to see proof that the declared income is genuine.

[glegolo]

 

mikem20

I am seeking a visa on the basis of retirement for +50 for the first time, not an extension.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay...

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

I have seen reports of some offices wanting the signature of the consular offices signature on a proof of income document from a embassy verified at the Department of Consular Affairs. It can be easily gotten in person or by mail.

I don't recall any reports of Chaeng Wattana not accepting proof of income from a embassy. They could ask for proof you had transferred some funds into the country but that is not normally done.

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, glegolo said:

To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay...

Many people have a applied for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration needed to apply for a one year extension of stay based upon retirement.

[Puchaiyank]

You sure make the Thai visa process sound complicated and difficult.  Have you tried going to the new immigration office and asking what they require and accept.  

 

There seems to be one thing they accept.

[glegolo]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Many people have a applied for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration needed to apply for a one year extension of stay based upon retirement.

Yes and that is what I suggested and wrote, as you saw... But the guy specificly said he wanted a VISA not an extension, and that is what I anwered to.

 

glegolo

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, glegolo said:

Yes and that is what I suggested and wrote, as you saw... But the guy specificly said he wanted a VISA not an extension, and that is what I anwered to.

 

glegolo

He will be obtaining a non O based on retirement (it's a visa) and can do that inside Thailand at immigration 90 day visa. He at some point will then apply for annual extension

Edited September 13, 2020 by DrJack54

[mikem20]

6 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Yes and that is what I suggested and wrote, as you saw... But the guy specificly said he wanted a VISA not an extension, and that is what I anwered to.

 

glegolo

Yes I'm aware of I need to change to 90 days non-o with a TM.86 and then extend one year. That's why all the agents tell me I'll get 15 months. But for brevity's sake I just said retirement visa.

[Keyser Soze666]

I'm dragged into the extension visa now after always being on a non o.

 

Ok, so I'm 50 and going onto a retirement visa. I'm going to be using an agent. 

 

I plan to get this visa in Nov, but by April/May I could well be moving province. I assume I should tell the agent this. will it effect things in any way? I understand the agent also does the 90 day report (whatever that is) will it matter to the agent if I am no longer in the same area as the agent? Assume I would post it to the agent for this??

 

Thanks for any help.  A lot of hassle for living in a country where I don't even want to be any longer!

[mikem20]

34 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

You sure make the Thai visa process sound complicated and difficult.  Have you tried going to the new immigration office and asking what they require and accept.  

 

There seems to be one thing they accept.

I'm asking the girlfriend to call them next week to check if they have the same 'pay agent or get out of the country' attitude.  I was hoping they weren't as bent but it remains to be seen. I don't know if there are any visa agents in the more rural areas where there aren't many foreigners.

Edited September 13, 2020 by mikem20

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, mikem20 said:

I was also told the same at CW when I went to inquire there, I would need to show bank transfers. I

This is not true for an embassy-letter case, unless they have changed their policy.  Perhaps too many could not be forced enough to agents under covid-conditions, so they have changed the rules, again.   But maybe the agents are not provding your options, because they want their cut of the action on your extension.

I would try in-person at CW with Embasy-Letter AND your proof-of-source ("all the reference documents showing the source of the income").    They will then ask for proof of where you live in the Bankgkok/CW service-area.  Say you need to get that from your "Apartment Manager," but have a 3-mo contract extendable per-month thereafter.  If they are OK with that, you are set to return and get it done. 

 

If All Good - THEN, rent an Apartment.  If you rent a "condo," a "Chanote" (purchase-agreement of owner), "Landlord's Blue Book," etc (bull) comes into it - AVOID, unless you find one where the Owner will provide those.   With an apartment, you should only need apt-manager signed copies of the rental-contract and his ID card - but verify the "landlord docs" at CW on your initial-visit, so you don't get (bleeped).

 

Make sure the rental-contract is the "only other thing" they need - get a list if they have extras.   If they want an MFA stamp on your embassy-letter - that's a 2 day thing max (can be one-day, if submitted early enough) - but that dirty-trick is usually a "small office" back-stab (Jomtien used to do this for "change of visa" - last report I read they only accepted bank-money / agent). 

 

BUT - you WOULD need to Stay In Bangkok about 2 months, to finish the process - 90-day Non-O (they may visit your apartment), then 2 mo later apply for 1-year extension.

Aside: your title is fairly-correct - you need a "90-Day VISA," obtained at immigration, before you can apply for a "1 year extension" some months later.  More verbose would be "Non-O 90-Day Visa Based on Retirement" - but, close enough. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by JackThompson

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, mikem20 said:

Yes I'm aware of I need to change to 90 days non-o with a TM.86 and then extend one year. That's why all the agents tell me I'll get 15 months. But for brevity's sake I just said retirement visa.

Yes you said clearly "Retirement-VISA and NOT an extension".... didn´t you???

 

glegolo

[Jackson B]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

 

mikem20

I am seeking a visa on the basis of retirement for +50 for the first time, not an extension.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay...

 

glegolo

Nope. That's not true. I am doing it too for the first time. 800k + evidence baht "came from" abroad + rental receipts + map + lease + home visit by immigration officers + TM 30 declaration. Costs 2000 bt.

 

In the first instance, the application is for a NEW visa: Non-O (retirement) 90 days. After 90 days an extension of the visa is required (12 months).

[patient37]

1 hour ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

I'm dragged into the extension visa now after always being on a non o.

 

Ok, so I'm 50 and going onto a retirement visa. I'm going to be using an agent. 

 

I plan to get this visa in Nov, but by April/May I could well be moving province. I assume I should tell the agent this. will it effect things in any way? I understand the agent also does the 90 day report (whatever that is) will it matter to the agent if I am no longer in the same area as the agent? Assume I would post it to the agent for this??

 

Thanks for any help.  A lot of hassle for living in a country where I don't even want to be any longer!

You should ask the agent this, not all operate the same.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

He will be obtaining a non O based on retirement (it's a visa) and can do that inside Thailand at immigration 90 day visa. He at some point will then apply for annual extension

Yes same answer exactly to you as well....

 

glegolo

[glegolo]

7 minutes ago, Jackson B said:

Nope. That's not true. I am doing it too for the first time. 800k + evidence baht "came from" abroad + rental receipts + map + lease + home visit by immigration officers + TM 30 declaration. Costs 2000 bt.

 

In the first instance, the application is for a NEW visa: Non-O (retirement) 90 days. After 90 days an extension of the visa is required (12 months).

Yes it is true what I did write,  you did just describe an conversion...

 

glegolo

[Jackson B]

8 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Yes it is true what I did write,  you did just describe an conversion...

 

glegolo

Actually, what you said was "To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay..."

 

So, I'm saying yes you can apply within Thailand. No need to go outside.

 

The application is for a new visa (90 days O), and not a "conversion" and you cannot get an extension to a visa until you get the visa first. You have to get the 90-day first.

[mikem20]

23 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Yes you said clearly "Retirement-VISA and NOT an extension".... didn´t you???

 

glegolo

Yes I did. What I wanted was to differentiate me from other posters who are extending for another year on retirement visa, not for the first time.  Maybe inaccurately worded, let's chalk it up to inexperience. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

I plan to get this visa in Nov, but by April/May I could well be moving province. I assume I should tell the agent this. will it effect things in any way? I understand the agent also does the 90 day report (whatever that is) will it matter to the agent if I am no longer in the same area as the agent? Assume I would post it to the agent for this??

Get the Non O or the extension in November?

The amnesty ends Sept 26th, so on what basis are you staying between Sept - November.

 

The agents usually do the 90 day reports on your behalf because the extensions are often obtained at a different Immigration office to the Province you live in.

If you move Province, file a TM30 and submit the 90 day reports yourself at the new office.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Tanoshi

[glegolo]

56 minutes ago, Jackson B said:

Actually, what you said was "To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay..."

 

So, I'm saying yes you can apply within Thailand. No need to go outside.

 

The application is for a new visa (90 days O), and not a "conversion" and you cannot get an extension to a visa until you get the visa first. You have to get the 90-day first.

To my understanding (not obviously yours) is that you can NOT get that VISA, if it is not a part of the process called conversion to extension of stay in the end.. OK???? Do you understand now??

 

glegolo

[Keyser Soze666]

51 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Get the Non O or the extension in November?

The amnesty ends Sept 26th, so on what basis are you staying between Sept - November.

 

The agents usually do the 90 day reports on your behalf because the extensions are often obtained at a different Immigration office to the Province you live in.

If you move Province, file a TM30 and submit the 90 day reports yourself at the new office.

I still have a 60 day extension in the tank. Actual O visa ends in Nov some time.

 

Yea, I'll have to learn the ropes a bit, all this is new to me.

[Peter Denis]

On 9/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, glegolo said:

To my understanding (not obviously yours) is that you can NOT get that VISA, if it is not a part of the process called conversion to extension of stay in the end.. OK???? Do you understand now??

 

glegolo

Glegolo,

You wrote 'To my understanding...' > well, your understanding is incorrect.

And your insistance on trying to prove you are right, while you are not, is downright embarassing.

 

When having entered Thailand Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa, and wanting to stay long-term you FIRST need to apply at your local IO for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa, and once you have that you can then subsequently in the last month of those 90 days apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on that Non Imm O Visa.

 

The process to apply for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa, is referred to on the Immigration website as a 'Change of Visa'.  And that is correct because your are changing your original Visa Exempt entry or Tourist Visa into a 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

It is the ONLY case where local IO can provide you with a VISA.   Apart from that exception, local IOs can only issue extensions of stay.  Such extension of stay refers to the permission to stay, which was provided on the basis of the original Visa on which you entered Thailand.

 

[Peter Denis]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:24 PM, mikem20 said:

Can anybody advice me what is the correct way to move to another province, and IO jurisdiction, that is absolutely above reproach by any IO? I am now on a TR and covered by the amnesty. I like to move, for real, to girlfriend's province and see if the IO there is any friendlier than in the big towns.

Is it only a matter of filing a TM.30 at the local IO and then I can proceed with applying for 30 days extension there and then a long term visa? Are there any more forms to fill to be properly registered in the new province/IO?

Yes, that is fully correct.  And since you are on a Tourist Visa, and do not need to have a 'fixed' residence in Thailand, there is hardly any admin involved.

The local IO where you would apply for the 30-day extension of stay (which your tourist Visa entitles you to, and which you didn't use yet), would probably request a TM-30 being filed from the premisses where you - a foreigner - are staying.

If you checked in at a Hotel/Guesthouse the night before doing the application, the Hotel is required by Thai law to file a TM-30 that you are staying there.  Just ask for a copy of the TM-30 notification they filed and bring that with you when applying for the 30-day extension of stay.

You are not 'relocating', you are just staying in that province and are applying for your 30-day extension at the local IO. 

When applying for the subsequent 90-day Non Imm O Visa then you would need to have a 'fixed residence'.  E.g. when you would be staying at your girlfriends place, or renting a place, then a TM-30 has to be filed that you are staying there and that it is your 'fixed residence'.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:24 PM, mikem20 said:

Aren't embassy/consulate income letters supposed to be accepted at face value at all IOs? As per the Thai immigration's document for +50 retirement non-O that is so often posted here when someone asks what they need. 
I have a letter from my consulate proving monthly pension of more than 65.000 baht, together with all the reference documents showing the source of the income. My IO wont even look at them.
In my attempts at my local IO I have on one occasion been told that I need to take the letter to the Department of Consular Affairs in Bangkok to have it verified and stamped. On another I was told I would ALSO need to prove income by showing income of 65.000 baht a month into a Thai bank account. I was also told the same at CW when I went to inquire there, I would need to show bank transfers. I have shown visa agents that I have all the documents in order and they've even called their contacts in IO but it doesn't matter. All they want is a less than truthful statement from a Thai bank.

Once again, you are fully correct that when you have an Embassy issued income-letter confirming that your monthly foreign income exceeds 65K, that this is normally accepted 'no further questions asked' as proof that you meet the financial requirements for your 90-day Non Imm O Visa application (as well as for the subsequent 1-year extension of stay).

The Immigration Officer handling your application can also request you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income.  But that is basically the same as the evidence you showed the Embassy staff when they issued the income letter.  In your case that is the pension statement issued by your pension provider.

Some officers also want to see some evidence of 'how your survive in Thailand', your bank-book or ATM-slips would be sufficient proof for that.

>> So in short, your local IO should accept your application.  And if the local officer handling your application is not willing to do so, you should politely ask to talk to the officer in charge to plead your case.  There would be little 'pleading' necessary as it is crystal-clear that you fully meet the requirements and that there is no reason to deny your application.

[Peter Denis]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:24 PM, mikem20 said:

How about the rental receipts for past three months when just moved? For the last three months I would have been paying rent in another province and for starters I am only planning on renting a cheap room by the month in the new town. Would that complicate things? Are you required to stay in the same place for three months prior to applying for a retirement visa? And what if register in family's home with no rental agreement or receipts?

Those rental receipts are ONLY asked when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa in the Bangkok area, and when you are renting a condo/appartment. 

When renting and applying at an up-country IO the rental agreement is sufficient.

ALSO > The intent of that requirement is to prove that your rental agreement is genuine, hence they want you to provide evidence that you paid 3 months IN ADVANCE (confirming your intent to stay there longer term).

The 'past 3 month rental receipts' is just clumsy incorrect wording, because when having entered the country Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa which only provides  30-day and a 60-day permission to stay how can they ever expect you to have paid rent for your place before even having entered the Country.

Once again, when confronted with a dim-witted Imm officer making a problem of this, politely request to talk to the officer in charge, or alternatively call the Immigration Helpline 1178 who will confirm that it refers to 3-months of rent paid in advance.

[Max69xl]

On 9/13/2020 at 5:45 PM, glegolo said:

 

mikem20

I am seeking a visa on the basis of retirement for +50 for the first time, not an extension.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can howevr apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay...

 

glegolo

He can change visa from tourist to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement,then apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement. That's the correct terminology. 

[Seeall]

On 9/13/2020 at 5:57 PM, Puchaiyank said:

You sure make the Thai visa process sound complicated and difficult.  Have you tried going to the new immigration office and asking what they require and accept.  

 

There seems to be one thing they accept.

Cash?

[glegolo]

29 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

He can change visa from tourist to a 90 days Non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement,then apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement. That's the correct terminology. 

Why do you even quote me????? I did mention conversation already in my original post... 

3rd time now I write a similar answer, read plse!!!!

glegolo

[glegolo]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

 On 9/13/2020 at 8:50 PM, glegolo said:

To my understanding (not obviously yours) is that you can NOT get that VISA, if it is not a part of the process called conversion to extension of stay in the end.. OK???? Do you understand now??

 

glegolo

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said;

Glegolo,

You wrote 'To my understanding...' > well, your understanding is incorrect.

And your insistance on trying to prove you are right, while you are not, is downright embarassing.

Sorry if yOU find it embarassing!! I am a firm believer that I am correct 100%.. I have been informed here in this forum, over and over again over the years, that you can not seek a Non Imm O-VISA inside Thailand, and leave it there... You MUST continue with the purpose of a 1 year extension, if they are going to give you that Non Immigrant O......

 

So you say I am wrong. I really would kindly ask UbonJoe to give his opinion, because I believe him, and I am more than willing to stand corrected if I am wrong, but certainly not YOU, who think that you can force your opinion here by bombarding the forum with your posts....

 

I also fresh up the history of the post I made from the beginning of this thread:

 

quote

mikem20

I am seeking a visa on the basis of retirement for +50 for the first time, not an extension.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To my knowledge you can not apply for a retirement-VISA inside Thailand. That has to be done outside Thailand. You can however apply for a conversion to a 1 year retirement extension of stay...

unquote

 

glegolo