Perfectly legal but can't return: Retiree expat voices frustrations to Thaivisa

[bkkcanuck8]

10 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

Try all 3 at once and you will swifly learn the difference.????

All at the same time, same house ????

[from the home of CC]

if he wants to p***ed at someone how his own country who through incompetence has allowed this pox to run amok, no country in their right mind should want visitors from there..

[from the home of CC]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:22 AM, Bluce said:

I share your frustrations. I worked in Thailand for five years and then converted my visa for my family to a retirement visa. My wife is from Hong Kong we have 2 1/2-year-old twins we considered Thailand are home. In June we needed to come back to Hong Kong and are now unwelcome in Thailand. I had to cancel the lease that we were paying to our thai landlord and move our stuff into a smaller apt Iown.  We were paying for schools eating out golfing and traveling around Thailand. We were very good for the Thai economy  I would say....  I find it amazing they are making moves to allow tourists back in while completely disrespecting good residents who were on retirement visas Sad really....  We are now considering moving to Bali. 

have at er'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53900565

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

 

Offensive posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[bkkcanuck8]

15 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

have at er'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53900565

They keep on using the word tourism, but that is ONLY because they are trying to spin it as 'yay' tourism will start to recover - but what it really is -- is effectively the same thing as 'Snow Birds' (i.e. 6 to 9 months of the year).  So why do they keep on using the word tourism?  Probably because that equates to a chunk of the economy far greater than 'expat retirees' (which after settling down tend to have a much power daily/weekly/monthly spend - and not in the pockets of the important families that own the major resort chains etc.   

 

You will notice that the numbers are insignificant (expat retirees are also fairly insignificant overall) and the numbers are very small.   Also every single one of these plans have been put off/delayed - and will likely continue to be delayed... and probably won't get implemented until there is a viable vaccine... 

 

The Thai population is not that much different than anywhere else in the world where they have controlled the virus... they don't want outsiders coming in at this time (from hotspots especially - which pretty much covers pretty much all of Europe and North America)....  In fact even in countries that are hotspots, you will find rural areas where they are not as affected also DO NOT WANT outsiders (like in Canadian Maritimes [New Brunswick, PEI, and Nova Scotia] who don't want CFAs [Come from Away/Afar] from the rest of Canada while their is a greater risk of infection and loss of control. 

 

Yes, the loss of tourism hurts the economy, but going back to the lockdowns etc. is much much worse and affects way more people. 

 

The world will continue to be a gated community for a while - and if you are not a permanent resident or citizen - those gates will be locked and they won't welcome visitors.   Personally, I am in Thailand -- I did not risk going back -- for the reason that I had a good idea that this would be the situation... and am quite happy and lucky to be here... and don't want the resumption of tourism at this point.  If they do allow foreigners back in and the virus gets another foothold and there is another lockdown - I suspect the foreign population will notice an increase in xenophobia towards them...

 

So if you chose to leave and cannot get back in... I am sorry, but you will have to wait outside these locked gates until the situation improves in your home countries and the threat of the pandemic subsides.

[from the home of CC]

19 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

They keep on using the word tourism, but that is ONLY because they are trying to spin it as 'yay' tourism will start to recover - but what it really is -- is effectively the same thing as 'Snow Birds' (i.e. 6 to 9 months of the year).  So why do they keep on using the word tourism?  Probably because that equates to a chunk of the economy far greater than 'expat retirees' (which after settling down tend to have a much power daily/weekly/monthly spend - and not in the pockets of the important families that own the major resort chains etc.   

 

You will notice that the numbers are insignificant (expat retirees are also fairly insignificant overall) and the numbers are very small.   Also every single one of these plans have been put off/delayed - and will likely continue to be delayed... and probably won't get implemented until there is a viable vaccine... 

 

The Thai population is not that much different than anywhere else in the world where they have controlled the virus... they don't want outsiders coming in at this time (from hotspots especially - which pretty much covers pretty much all of Europe and North America)....  In fact even in countries that are hotspots, you will find rural areas where they are not as affected also DO NOT WANT outsiders (like in Canadian Maritimes [New Brunswick, PEI, and Nova Scotia] who don't want CFAs [Come from Away/Afar] from the rest of Canada while their is a greater risk of infection and loss of control. 

 

Yes, the loss of tourism hurts the economy, but going back to the lockdowns etc. is much much worse and affects way more people. 

 

The world will continue to be a gated community for a while - and if you are not a permanent resident or citizen - those gates will be locked and they won't welcome visitors.   Personally, I am in Thailand -- I did not risk going back -- for the reason that I had a good idea that this would be the situation... and am quite happy and lucky to be here... and don't want the resumption of tourism at this point.  If they do allow foreigners back in and the virus gets another foothold and there is another lockdown - I suspect the foreign population will notice an increase in xenophobia towards them...

 

So if you chose to leave and cannot get back in... I am sorry, but you will have to wait outside these locked gates until the situation improves in your home countries and the threat of the pandemic subsides.

you notice that many of the folks that are banging the pots for the return of tourism are those from countries where this virus has basically taken over? These are also countries where large swaths of the population don't even believe there's a problem except that their liberties are being curtailed. Hopefully these folks are going to be the last ones allowed to travel here..

[paulikens]

3 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You don't need to be a fortune teller to figure out things have a good chance of shutting down.  You have 2+ months of warning that a pandemic was coming.  You have the Chinese government shutting down areas to get control of the situation... and proving that it may be hard but can be done... maybe not to the same extent but you should easily have been able to foreshadow it (I was warning friends and family back home that this pandemic was coming and to prepare -- and I am no fortune teller or someone with great skills in this area)...  Oh, and home governments were already warning about flying home 'while you can' and other countries had already closed their borders.  (and it was also widely known that a vaccine would take at least 18 months to develop - best case scenario).  And pretty much everyone knows the dirty secret that one of the weaknesses when it comes to contagions in the modern era is our flying petri dish system...  hhhmmm... but then there were lots of people that stuck their heads in the sand and started to hum...

@bkkcanuck8 ok mystic meg!!

[yellowboat]

On 10/8/2020 at 12:21 PM, robblok said:

See now you start about buying and selling that is work.. no doubt about it. Of course its not pettiness its work and for work you need a workpermit. Those are the rules always been the rules and the people who want to do that are such a tiny minority that you making a fuzz about it is crazy.  These rules were in the book under the nom military goverment too.

 

There are far more online workers who would want to do what they want not taking away jobs. If there is something more important it would be that. But its also not legal.

 

Aha so you bend every topic into a anti military topic.. i see message gotten. Unfortunately you wont be gone soon (by that i dont mean i have something against you but would like to see the military government gone).

 

However to think that a civilian government would make things easier for expats is crazy. It was Thaksin who introduced the 90 day reporting. Now the idiots in the military added a tm30. Its never getting easier. Not anywhere in the world all countries are anti immigrants.

 

As for comparing Thailand to Vietnam. I think you never lived there.

 

 

Sorry for the late reply.  I was making something in SAIGON.  You need a work permit to do anything in Thailand.  You and many Thais are brainwashed in thinking that is how things are done.   Hence Thailand's attractiveness.

 

Let's look at some examples that flaunt your love of Thai law wisdom. When the Thai military could not get that coach and those poor boys out of the tunnel, what did those farangs do?   They made the government sign an authorization letter allowing them to work.

 

Say if I sell a piece of equipment to a Thai company and it breaks.   If I go there to fix it, is that legal?  Under Thai law, I believe it is not.  That's crazy

 

I was living in a Hotel in Hong Kong in the early 90's.   These two salesmen from Canada were there trying to open up the Chinese market.   They told immigration what they were doing.   HK immigration said as long you are not drawing a salary locally you are fine. 

 

Other than Thailand, most countries do not care what you do, as long as you do not take away from the locals.  

 

Purchasing trips need a work permit under Thai law.   To exhibit at non government trade show, I believe you still need a work permit.  That is petty.  You are making the perfect case for working people to not live there if they want to work.   Thai law hampers trade and keeps certain people poor.  

 

You bring up another marvelous point.   Digi nomads could teach Thais how to program.  In Shenzhen, I worked at a place that had Python Lady's night.  We would take turns teaching for free.  Nobody cares in China if you build a boat or teach Programming.  Why does Thailand make such big deal out of anything where a foreigner puts out a bit of effort.   China offered 10 year two month stay visas to certain countries.  That is a lot of time taking pictures.  

 

There are tons of us who have left Thailand for opportunities in Vietnam.   Coming here during the virus was just plane luck.  

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, paulikens said:

@bkkcanuck8 ok mystic meg!!

People that don't bury their head in the sand -- often look like mystics (or witches) to those that do bury their head in the sand (or elsewhere)...  I know I am taking a risk of being burned at the stake ... or drowned... but I think the number of witches this time is great enough to be fairly safe ????

[Kadilo]

12 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

you notice that many of the folks that are banging the pots for the return of tourism are those from countries where this virus has basically taken over? These are also countries where large swaths of the population don't even believe there's a problem except that their liberties are being curtailed. Hopefully these folks are going to be the last ones allowed to travel here..

I assume you are talking about the UK as one of those where it has “basically taken over”

There is nowhere where it has “taken over”. There are areas in the North seeing a spike primarily it is believed by the universities going back and young people mixing.  

 

“Large swaths don’t even believe there is a problem” 

 

You do love an exaggeration. Do you work for the MSM? 

 

Most people when asked still don’t know anyone who has had it or anyone who knows anyone who has had it, so you can understand people’s scepticism to a degree. 

 

“Hopefully these are gong to be the last ones allowed to travel here” 

 

Well whether they are or not will have nothing to do with the likes of you and others who somehow believe what they think has any bearing on the decision making. 

 

Personally i hope that those wallowing in others uncertainties receive their own bad news soon but the likelihood is neither of us will get our wish. 

 

[from the home of CC]

8 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

I assume you are talking about the UK as one of those where it has “basically taken over”

There is nowhere where it has “taken over”. There are areas in the North seeing a spike primarily it is believed by the universities going back and young people mixing.  

 

“Large swaths don’t even believe there is a problem” 

 

You do love an exaggeration. Do you work for the MSM? 

 

Most people when asked still don’t know anyone who has had it or anyone who knows anyone who has had it, so you can understand people’s scepticism to a degree. 

 

“Hopefully these are gong to be the last ones allowed to travel here” 

 

Well whether they are or not will have nothing to do with the likes of you and others who somehow believe what they think has any bearing on the decision making. 

 

Personally i hope that those wallowing in others uncertainties receive their own bad news soon but the likelihood is neither of us will get our wish. 

 

actually wasn't looking at the UK, but you're right, they're a right mess. Luckily the government here won't be swayed by all those who figure the world owes them something.. 

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Say if I sell a piece of equipment to a Thai company and it breaks.   If I go there to fix it, is that legal?  Under Thai law, I believe it is not.  That's crazy

 

I was living in a Hotel in Hong Kong in the early 90's.   These two salesmen from Canada were there trying to open up the Chinese market.   They told immigration what they were doing.   HK immigration said as long you are not drawing a salary locally you are fine.

Only partially true, if the equipment is not specialized (where there is no locally trained people that can do the repairs -- but then you are getting into very specialized equipment).   Usually, if you are doing that you will have to get permission and the appropriate visa for it (and be sponsored)...  Don't know many countries that allow you to enter on something like a tourist visa to do that legally. 

 

On things like looking for business, meetings, or even searching for a job - immigration worldwide tends to be fairly lenient with regards to being able to do that... though I do know some of situations where you were at the mercy of different immigration officers (interpreted differently depending on port of entry or office is not limited to just Thailand).   In one case we have some German's entering the US from Canada with resumes while going to for an interview in Chicago (if they got the job, the company would do it legally).  The immigration officer stopped them - found the resumes and barred them from entry for reasons of employment... it took months of working through the appeals process to clear it up...  So yes, you can travel on tourism and do an interview or two or a meeting or two - but you are always at the whim of the local immigration officers.   [I have worked as a consultant for companies in UK, Canada and US - and always had to have the company apply to get the proper paperwork in place...].

 

 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and replies have been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

actually wasn't looking at the UK, but you're right, they're a right mess. Luckily the government here won't be swayed by all those who figure the world owes them something.. 

Or foreigners who think they are Thai and have a say in any decision making. 

[Enzian]

Tonight I was in line to pay for a couple of food items in the Tops market at Suk 17 under Robinsons, and there is this farang paying (for flowers!) without a mask on. The Thai lady in front of me said something to a manager-looking guy and he asked the farang to put on a mask. The guy said he forgot one and then ignored the manager, who did nothing. I couldn't tell from his accent what nationality he might be, but honestly he looked like a thug, with his shirt open down his chest.  On my way out the lady was complaining to another manager, and I was feeling angry myself but happy that I hadn't been too close to the guy to give him hell. 

The point is that that lady is a microcosm of the fact that the Thai middle class do not want people like him and I believe they will sacrifice those below them on the social ladder to ensure we don't have them. Get ready for a quiet "high" season.

[bkkcanuck8]

12 minutes ago, Enzian said:

Tonight I was in line to pay for a couple of food items in the Tops market at Suk 17 under Robinsons, and there is this farang paying (for flowers!) without a mask on. The Thai lady in front of me said something to a manager-looking guy and he asked the farang to put on a mask. The guy said he forgot one and then ignored the manager, who did nothing. I couldn't tell from his accent what nationality he might be, but honestly he looked like a thug, with his shirt open down his chest.  On my way out the lady was complaining to another manager, and I was feeling angry myself but happy that I hadn't been too close to the guy to give him hell. 

The point is that that lady is a microcosm of the fact that the Thai middle class do not want people like him and I believe they will sacrifice those below them on the social ladder to ensure we don't have them. Get ready for a quiet "high" season.

And that is the rub.  If you are here and not on a resort island on holiday -- you should be trying to fit in with the accepted social norms that are expected (I am not saying trying to behave like a Thai but yourself but with accommodation for the societal norms).   During good times your behaviour (on a resort island etc.) might be excused as you are just a foreigner, but when the society is under stress -- behaving like that -- you stand out in a bad way and it comes across as obnoxiously 'too good' (words are failing me on here) to act as what is expected of normal Thai citizens.  Now if you are a Thai your obnoxious behaviour would only reflect you, but when you are a foreigner in this type of stressed situation - you become a stupid foreigner as representative of foreign attitudes. 

 

 

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, Enzian said:

 On my way out the lady was complaining to another manager, and I was feeling angry myself but happy that I hadn't been too close to the guy to give him hell. 

 

You mean you bottled it and thought you would become a keyboard warrior to moan about him instead.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Kadilo

[Jumbo1968]

48 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

You mean you bottled it and thought you would become a keyboard warrior to moan about him instead.

No different from the U.K., in general everyone in the supermarkets I go wear masks but loads don’t cleanse their hands or trolleys/baskets at the cleansing stations at the entrances. A female member of staff is positioned next to the cleaning station but doesn’t say anything for the fear of getting abuse. If the supermarkets really want to stick by the rules they should be employing Security Guards enforcing the rules but of course it’s down to cost.

[brianthainess]

On 10/7/2020 at 5:21 PM, sammieuk1 said:

I left at the death of my father wasn't asking for trouble but got a shed load ????

Sorry for your loss, but that is not a holiday.

[BobinBKK]

On 10/7/2020 at 3:32 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

They were in complete denial about the stupidity of their own actions on here shortly after the lockdown commenced. Blaming everyone except themselves for their own bad decisions.

 

It was obvious that a lockdown could happen as early as end of Feb so anyone travelling subsequent to that period took a massive risk.

 

Well, it's not really your home is it? Or are you still in denial about your status here? 

 

Some people will never learn I guess.

Soooooo you are saying where you are born is your home? Unless of course you are Thai and no matter where you are born Thailand is your home. I can think of one Thai person that was born in America, where is that person's home? 

[BobinBKK]

On 10/7/2020 at 6:00 PM, MRToMRT said:

Is he wrong there? I applied for ext of stay on a non O on basis of retirement and I never provided a police record or med cert??

Yes he is wrong. I am on a non-o retirement and the only requirements were/are proof of financial stability and 1,900 baht for the visa stamp.

[robblok]

15 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Sorry for the late reply.  I was making something in SAIGON.  You need a work permit to do anything in Thailand.  You and many Thais are brainwashed in thinking that is how things are done.   Hence Thailand's attractiveness.

 

Let's look at some examples that flaunt your love of Thai law wisdom. When the Thai military could not get that coach and those poor boys out of the tunnel, what did those farangs do?   They made the government sign an authorization letter allowing them to work.

 

Say if I sell a piece of equipment to a Thai company and it breaks.   If I go there to fix it, is that legal?  Under Thai law, I believe it is not.  That's crazy

 

I was living in a Hotel in Hong Kong in the early 90's.   These two salesmen from Canada were there trying to open up the Chinese market.   They told immigration what they were doing.   HK immigration said as long you are not drawing a salary locally you are fine. 

 

Other than Thailand, most countries do not care what you do, as long as you do not take away from the locals.  

 

Purchasing trips need a work permit under Thai law.   To exhibit at non government trade show, I believe you still need a work permit.  That is petty.  You are making the perfect case for working people to not live there if they want to work.   Thai law hampers trade and keeps certain people poor.  

 

You bring up another marvelous point.   Digi nomads could teach Thais how to program.  In Shenzhen, I worked at a place that had Python Lady's night.  We would take turns teaching for free.  Nobody cares in China if you build a boat or teach Programming.  Why does Thailand make such big deal out of anything where a foreigner puts out a bit of effort.   China offered 10 year two month stay visas to certain countries.  That is a lot of time taking pictures.  

 

There are tons of us who have left Thailand for opportunities in Vietnam.   Coming here during the virus was just plane luck.  

Strange that you have all those problems while for instance my GF who works for a big company in BKK can go anywhere with her work permit and is not restricted to her place of work.

 

Things that you believe work the way they work just don't. Anyway not saying Thailand is perfect as its rules need changing. But when I was in Vietnam it was a major hassle. Just one letter wrong on my Visa. I had to pay a huge bribe not to be deported. Never faced that in Thailand. Major hassle.

[Pattaya Spotter]

On 10/8/2020 at 6:21 PM, Russel said:

it is useless to explain it to certain troglodytes since they do not take into account cases of needs or emergency

"Needs or emergency"...people leaving because of dead relatives are a little late.

[robblok]

11 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

And that is the rub.  If you are here and not on a resort island on holiday -- you should be trying to fit in with the accepted social norms that are expected (I am not saying trying to behave like a Thai but yourself but with accommodation for the societal norms).   During good times your behaviour (on a resort island etc.) might be excused as you are just a foreigner, but when the society is under stress -- behaving like that -- you stand out in a bad way and it comes across as obnoxiously 'too good' (words are failing me on here) to act as what is expected of normal Thai citizens.  Now if you are a Thai your obnoxious behaviour would only reflect you, but when you are a foreigner in this type of stressed situation - you become a stupid foreigner as representative of foreign attitudes. 

 

 

Yea some of those Thug farangs that dont want to adapt give us a bad name same like the mask refusers ect.

[luckyluke]

11 hours ago, Enzian said:

and there is this farang paying (for flowers!) without a mask on. The Thai lady in front of me said something to a manager-looking guy and he asked the farang to put on a mask. The guy said he forgot one and then ignored the manager, who did nothing.

The guy said "sorry ( or not ) I forgot my mask".

The florist sold  flowers to someone without a mask.

The manager did nothing.

 

Next

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

12 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

"Needs or emergency"...people leaving because of dead relatives are a little late.

Not a very kind/understanding thing to say, despite your lack of empathy, I hope nothing like that happens to you, 

 

Mate of mine's mum died a few weeks back (If you're interested, had a fall getting out of a taxi resulting in her needing a Hip Operation, stress of the op killed her 2 days later) & he is distraught that he couldn't go home for the funeral, his whole family told him to stay put (knowing his mum, she would have said the same) but that doesn't make it any easier for him.

 

Guys have opened up on this thread & said that they couldn't get home for their Brother's funeral or their sons wedding, at least have the decency to show some understanding for people who are put in some desperate situations. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by Mike Teavee
I won't

[Pattaya Spotter]

9 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Not a very kind/understanding thing to say, despite your lack of empathy, I hope nothing like that happens to you, 

 

Mate of mine's mum died a few weeks back (If you're interested, had a fall getting out of a taxi resulting in her needing a Hip Operation, stress of the op killed her 2 days later) & he is distraught that he couldn't go home for the funeral, his whole family told him to stay put (knowing his mum, she would have said the same) but that doesn't make it any easier for him.

 

Guys have opened up on this thread & said that they couldn't get home for their Brother's funeral or their sons wedding, at least have the decency to show some understanding for people who are put in some desperate situations. 

I've never really understood flying half-way around the world to see a dead body...if someone is sick or dying yes but after doesn't make sense to me. This is especially true at this time but people certainly have to do what's best for them.

[Eddy Ozark]

I feel sorry for all the many people who have problems of this sort. It is easy to say, in hindsight, that someone has not been clever. I have made many mistakes in my time but would not blame others as having acted stupidly. Of course he should be able to return. This goes too far IMO. 

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I've never really understood flying half-way around the world to see a dead body...if someone is sick or dying yes but after doesn't make sense to me. This is especially true at this time but people certainly have to do what's best for them.

Logically you're correct, but to most people it's a way of saying their final goodbyes & not being able to do so (as in the case with my mate) can cause a lot of guilt/grief (which is what he's going through now even though he knows that everybody thinks he made the right decision).  

 

I'm feeling bad enough as I haven't seen my parents for 12 months, for the past 11 years they visited me in Singapore for 1 month every January but couldn't this year because my uncle was very ill (he died in March & I still feel bad/guilty for not going back for the funeral), then I normally visit in May (flight was cancelled) & October (haven't re-booked using the vouchers from the May flight as I'm waiting until I can get back into Thailand). 

 

If something happened to one of my parents then I would go back to the UK (if for no other reason than to support the other one) and know that it would be difficult for me to get back into Thailand, currently my options are limited to either marrying my Thai GF or buying a Thai Elite Visa (probably the cheaper of the 2 options!), not going back would not be an option for me even if it means I'm stuck there for some time. 

 

Worth mentioning that as a way of trying to make things easier for myself should I need to go back, I didn't get a re-entry permit when I extended my Non-O in August so if I left now I would be free to get a new visa & wouldn't need to wait for the current permission to stay to expire (26th Sept 2021 so could be up to 11.5 months wait), obviously if they start letting Non-O's back in from the UK then I would get a re-entry permit before leaving. 

 

I don't want to come across as "Flash" but spending 500K on a TE Visa & another 200K jumping through the hoops to get back in doesn't compare to the added hurt I would feel if I couldn't go back should the worse happen. 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[Jonathan Swift]

I have been referred to a certificate of entry page at the Washington DC Thai consulate and it appears that non O retirement visa holders can get the Certificate of Entry as long as all conditions are met such as a pre booked authorized "semi commercial" (whatever that means) e ticket and a paid quarantine booking. Here is the form website https://thaiembdc.org/onlinevisaapplication/. and here is a screen shot of the form showing the non O category in the drop down menu. This appears to be the information needed by everyone with retirement visas who are confused. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Jonathan Swift
correction