Crackdown on illegal foreign teachers: Heavy fines and deportation for those without work permits

[holy cow cm]

12 hours ago, elliss said:

 

     That is a racist statement .

      Hope the witch hunt , goes well .

      No racist remark , intended ..

 

Nothing racist about it one iotta. Plainly a statement. 

[mommysboy]

On 10/15/2020 at 1:34 PM, 2530Ubon said:

With respect, there is a reason you don't need to be qualified to teach piano - it's not that difficult. I taught myself how to play using youtube. Within a month i could play three pop songs and one classical piece fairly well (at least to my ears anyway!)

 

English is much more demanding, and an academic subject. Most native speakers are unable to tell you grammar rules, unqualified and uneducated 'teachers' can't spell, or create a test that actually determines a students ability. There are multiple famous quotes about 'half knowledge' - here are a select few;

 

“I ain’t one of those who believe that a half knowledge of a subject is useless, but it has been my experience that when a fellow has that half knowledge he finds it’s the other half which would really come in handy.”

-George Horace Lorimer

 

'The most dangerous people in the world are those with a grain of knowledge who promote themselves as authorities or authority figures. They only proceed to give half truthful, half right answers and in the end we all lose because of them.' -Contessa Bianca Bertilli

 

'They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.'

-Terry Pratchett, 2009, Equal Rites: (Discworld Novel 3)”, Random House

 

'English is much more demanding, and an academic subject.'

 

No, it's a language.  How did you learn it?

 

 

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, Wongkitlo said:

With respect.  Would anyone really want to listen to what you have learnt from YouTube ? As you say yourself 'A little knowledge us a dangerous thing'. My little 3yo nephew has learnt to sing the alphabet song. Using your example of piano playing that  means he can speak English. 

You have completely missed my point. I was not discounting the importance of fully trained teachers. I was just advocating a system whereby people with an interest and ability could for example hold conversation classes  under the supervision of a qualified teacher.

No, i made my point and you seem to agree with it. One minute your a 'piano teacher' after only passing grade 3, now your ridiculing the fact that i taught myself to play via youtube. Who wants to listen to a 'professional' who only passed grade 3? For those who don't know, there are 8 piano grades - grade 8 in the UCAS points scale has the same amount of points as an A level .

 

I think you will find that i specified how many songs i could play - i did not say i could 'play the piano' - therefore your nephew speaking English has nothing to do with my example. Another reason why unqualified teachers shouldn't be 'having a crack' at it. If you can't read and debate online properly, how can you teach children?

 

'hold conversation classes under the supervision of a qualified teacher.' - This bit is new, previously you did not mention under supervision; you even gave yourself as a shining example of an unqualified teacher and went so far as to say this "I would also say knowing your subject can substitute for having a degree." - without pointing out that you don't require any formal qualifications to teach piano.

Edited October 18, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[2530Ubon]

19 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

'English is much more demanding, and an academic subject.'

 

No, it's a language.  How did you learn it?

 

 

'English studies (usually called simply English) is an academic discipline taught in primary, secondary, and post-secondary education' It is a language and an academic subject. You can only achieve phd's/masters/bachelor's degrees in academic subjects.

Edited October 18, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[FritsSikkink]

25 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

No, i made my point and you seem to agree with it. One minute your a 'piano teacher' after only passing grade 3, now your ridiculing the fact that i taught myself to play via youtube. Who wants to listen to a 'professional' who only passed grade 3? For those who don't know, there are 8 piano grades - grade 8 in the UCAS points scale has the same amount of points as an A level .

 

I think you will find that i specified how many songs i could play - i did not say i could 'play the piano' - therefore your nephew speaking English has nothing to do with my example. Another reason why unqualified teachers shouldn't be 'having a crack' at it. If you can't read and debate online properly, how can you teach children?

 

'hold conversation classes under the supervision of a qualified teacher.' - This bit is new, previously you did not mention under supervision; you even gave yourself as a shining example of an unqualified teacher and went so far as to say this "I would also say knowing your subject can substitute for having a degree." - without pointing out that you don't require any formal qualifications to teach piano.

You said you could play fairly well to your ears, which says a lot. Do you have the ears of a musician, it may well be fairly good but might be pretty rubbish. I do think that a teacher should have proper qualifications and a couple of weeks of TEFL or the likes won't do.

Edited October 18, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[mommysboy]

36 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

'English studies (usually called simply English) is an academic discipline taught in primary, secondary, and post-secondary education' It is a language and an academic subject. You can only achieve phd's/masters/bachelor's degrees in academic subjects.

But how did you really learn it (when you were a child)? Did your mother sit you on her knee and open a Grammar book? 

[2530Ubon]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But how did you really learn it (when you were a child)? Did your mother sit you on her knee and open a Grammar book? 

May i ask, what is your point?

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

May i ask, what is your point?

That there are 2 definitions of academic- one of them being the following: 'not of practical relevance; of only theoretical interest.'  

 

I suppose my main point is that I would rather have a child learn English from an enthusiastic, piano playing, native speaker, who uses nursery rhymes or popular children's songs. 

 

At IELTS level then sure it becomes an academic subject, which should only be taught by someone with a mastery of English.

[2530Ubon]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

That there are 2 definitions of academic- one of them being the following: 'not of practical relevance; of only theoretical interest.'  

 

I suppose my main point is that I would rather have a child learn English from an enthusiastic, piano playing, native speaker, who uses nursery rhymes or popular children's songs. 

 

At IELTS level then sure it becomes an academic subject, which should only be taught by someone with a mastery of English.

The piano teacher does not teach English in Thailand - he used his old job in a school (we are assuming this was a school in his native homeland) as an unqualified piano teacher, to compare unqualified English teachers. This was foolish, as you don't need any qualifications to teach piano. It is an unregulated profession.

 

I think you may be confused - IELTS is not a level, it's a test of how proficient you are at using the English language.

 

Thai kids take these tests in their final years at secondary school when they want to study an English subject at university, or if they wish to study abroad.

 

Therefore, English should only be taught by people with a mastery of English, yes? Just because a subject is academic, does not mean we can't teach it in a fun way using games, songs and instruments. We must however, make sure those teachers are qualified.

[BritManToo]

24 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I suppose my main point is that I would rather have a child learn English from an enthusiastic, piano playing, native speaker, who uses nursery rhymes or popular children's songs. 

I'd rather have my kids learn English from me.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Just because a subject is academic, does not mean we can't teach it in a fun way using games, songs and instruments. We must however, make sure those teachers are qualified.

I went through High school and university with qualified teachers and without any lessons being taught 'in a fun way'.

There is little worthwhile to be learnt from games IMHO, and it appeared to be a last resort for teachers with no classroom management skills and their out of control classes.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by BritManToo

[AlfHuy]

On 10/12/2020 at 1:09 PM, polpott said:

Really? I wouldn't get out of bed for 40k.

Wowww.

I know a Specialist Doctor here on 30k

With a few shifts at a private hospital, probably making 40k

[n00dle]

Quote

Filipino: 4,360 persons

British: 1,569 

US: 1,143

Chinese: 778

Japanese: 351

pretty much summarizes the quality of english education availble in thailand

[kingstonkid]

We have gotten rid of the backpack teachers.  The smartest thing would be to allow those on retirement from NES country to teach english legally

[lust]

6 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

We have gotten rid of the backpack teachers.  The smartest thing would be to allow those on retirement from NES country to teach english legally

Yeah, flood the schools with senior citizens. Very inspiring for kids...

[AlfHuy]

13 hours ago, DavisH said:

My school has been informed that immigration will be visiting in the near future to check passports, work permits and teaching licences of all foreign teachers. This is in Nonthaburi, but appears to apply more widely and will be focussing on bilingual and english programs. 

And at my daughter's school, I saw last week around 10 immigration officers/police, entering the building.

That's a top notch private school in BKK.

[carlyai]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:55 PM, kingstonkid said:

You can be sure that schools will also get hit.  I am not so sure about the fines for teachers but the worry I would have as a teacher that has been here awhile is deportation and loss of your visa.

 

I think what is going to be the most interesting is the agencies because we all know that while they say all their teachers are university grads most are not and almost none of them have work permits because it costs them too much money and staff.  When I first started teaching it was suggested I take a trip to Khaosan rd. 

 

 

I didn't know there was a school in Khowsan rd.

[carlyai]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:53 PM, Magenta408 said:

New dude on the job so he has to start with a clean slate. Wat, no Canadians or Aussies?

We all moved to Isaan and lay low. ????

[polpott]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd rather have my kids learn English from me.

My son only seems to pick certain words up from me. **** off is his favourite. At least I've managed to teach him the English 2 fingered salute to replace the pathetic American single finger salute.

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, AlfHuy said:

And at my daughter's school, I saw last week around 10 immigration officers/police, entering the building.

That's a top notch private school in BKK.

Was it perchance one of the 'top notch' sarasas schools - they specialize in brutality and beatings apparently.

[Wongkitlo]

10 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

No, i made my point and you seem to agree with it. One minute your a 'piano teacher' after only passing grade 3, now your ridiculing the fact that i taught myself to play via youtube. Who wants to listen to a 'professional' who only passed grade 3? For those who don't know, there are 8 piano grades - grade 8 in the UCAS points scale has the same amount of points as an A level .

 

I think you will find that i specified how many songs i could play - i did not say i could 'play the piano' - therefore your nephew speaking English has nothing to do with my example. Another reason why unqualified teachers shouldn't be 'having a crack' at it. If you can't read and debate online properly, how can you teach children?

 

'hold conversation classes under the supervision of a qualified teacher.' - This bit is new, previously you did not mention under supervision; you even gave yourself as a shining example of an unqualified teacher and went so far as to say this "I would also say knowing your subject can substitute for having a degree." - without pointing out that you don't require any formal qualifications to teach piano.

No I am ridiculing the fact that you think you can play piano from learning from YouTube for a month. I did write my students were doing higher grades -4, 5 and 6 - and getting distinctions. My student's parents seemed happy to come and see me playing live. I feel sorry for your students needing to put up with your ego (and your piano playing).

[elliss]

9 hours ago, mommysboy said:

But how did you really learn it (when you were a child)? Did your mother sit you on her knee and open a Grammar book? 

 

    First Aid in English .

     Was the Grammar book , of that era ..

 

[DavisH]

8 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Was it perchance one of the 'top notch' sarasas schools - they specialize in brutality and beatings apparently.

It looks like all EP's and Bilingual programs will be checked. I wonder if they will also check the qualifications of the Thai teachers. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by DavisH

[Wizard of Oz]

On 10/8/2020 at 5:38 PM, JoePai said:

Anyone who is not a Thai national is a foreigner - no matter what other nationality

I prefer it that way.

You know where you stand.

Here in good old Melbourne, the leftie government pushes the narrative that we're all the same, when clearly we are not and there are massive differences.

 

[metisdead]

A post with some trolling videos has been removed. 

[ChipButty]

21 hours ago, carlyai said:

I didn't know there was a school in Khowsan rd.

It's where you get all the required documents from

[2530Ubon]

16 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

No I am ridiculing the fact that you think you can play piano from learning from YouTube for a month. I did write my students were doing higher grades -4, 5 and 6 - and getting distinctions. My student's parents seemed happy to come and see me playing live. I feel sorry for your students needing to put up with your ego (and your piano playing).

Sigh, if only i could debate with someone educated enough to read properly. I said within a month, i could play 3 songs. I can play the violin, guitar, drums and i dabbled at mixing d&b with vinyl. I'm probably more musically inclined than you, i just didn't feel the need to show off.

 

In fact, i don't teach anymore! I used to be a teacher, a teacher trainer and a curriculum consultant. Now, I have my own business. I did write that earlier, so either your grammar is terrible, (here's a free lesson; you should have used the simple past tense) or you can't read. I feel sorry for your victims. I call them victims because you can't claim to be a teacher as your victims were more qualified than you!

Edited October 19, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Wongkitlo]

10 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Sigh, if only i could debate with someone educated enough to read properly. I said within a month, i could play 3 songs. I can play the violin, guitar, drums and i dabbled at mixing d&b with vinyl. I'm probably more musically inclined than you, i just didn't feel the need to show off.

 

In fact, i don't teach anymore! I used to be a teacher, a teacher trainer and a curriculum consultant. Now, I have my own business. I did write that earlier, so either your grammar is terrible, (here's a free lesson; you should have used the simple past tense) or you can't read. I feel sorry for your victims. I call them victims because you can't claim to be a teacher as your victims were more qualified than you!

 I always seemed to be under constant pressure to work.  I was  doing a job that gave me enjoyment and encouragement from my peers and audience. The sex and drugs and rock'n'roll were quite enjoyable too. I do think you are being harsh. It is a pretty far fetched statement to say that learning any instrument is "not that hard". Pablo Casale the cellist was 81 and was  asked why he still practised. He explained he is still getting better daily. I see myself as a competent musician but your comment is an insult to prople like him who spent their life giving enjoyment to people.Comparing someone who has worked at it all their life to learning from youtube is a bit extreme. In my original post I did say that there were many good teachers commenting. You have heard of honorary degrees where someone was a success in their field and was given a degree as acknowledgement? Isn't that a form of awarding prior knowledge? I am surprised as a teacher that you are not sad about the state of English education in Thai schools. I guess you worked in an international school but in the government schools they get nothing. I am surprised as a teacher  you defending an unfair system where the rich get education and the poor get nothing.

[2530Ubon]

Let's get back on topic and stop talking about music - fun as it was!

 

I worked in government schools. One of my classes was so full (56 students) that some were seated on the floor. I've worked in a village school, Bangkok and isaan city schools, including a top 10 government school. The state of Thai education does anger me, which is why i am not defending it, and continue discussing the subject after leaving the profession.

 

I want to throw out all of these unqualified idiots who act as teachers and get in some qualified talent. The money is there for foreigners - i never earned less than 35k and i always had extras thrown in like free housing/visa cash/SSF on top. Takes your pay to almost 1k GBP, which isn't bad considering a NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher) in the UK will only make 1.8K after taxes, pension contribution and union fees. If the school directors weren't pocketing the government assistance funds offered, then there would be a lot more. The Thai government spends 25.6% of GDP per year on education - where does the money go?

 

Honorary degrees are prefixed honorary because they can be given to any Tom, Dick or Harry; let's have a look at some;

Dr Ed Sheeran (singer), Dr Kanye West (singer), Dr Jeremy Clarkson (TV host), Dr Prince Charles (Royal family), Dr Ben Afflek (actor) Dr Oprah Winfrey (TV host), Dr Kermit the Frog (from the muppets), Dr Mike Tyson (boxer)

Source; https://www.buzzfeed.com/mirandalarbi/surprise-celebrities-who-were-made-honorary-doctors

 

I don't discriminate either - i think the NNES such as the filipinos should be thrown out too. They don't help, they're just cheaper. They're usually qualified too, but if you're going to pay more to learn English, do it properly.

Edited October 19, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

i never earned less than 35k

Christ on a bike! Is that all? And you should always use a capital 'I' to denote the first person singular pronoun.