Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Loiner]

28 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No; it didn't.

 

The EU treated us the same as all third country list applicants by asking us for assurances about our food standards. 

 

From 23/9/20: UK satisfied EU won’t block food exports after Brexit..

 

The EU, signs an international treaty and, despite extreme provocation, has shown no sign that it ever intends to break it.

 

Meanwhile Boris proclaims that agreement as an oven ready deal which will get Brexit done, wins an election on that promise, signs it with much self aggrandising fanfare and gets it enshrined in UK statute law via an Act of Parliament.

 

All the while with his fingers crossed behind his back!

 

Perfidious Albion, indeed.

Oh yes they did. The cheating EU knows our food standards as they have been aligned with the EU for years.

 

Boris was forced into making the WA, which using his new landslide he had to force through a Remainer dominated parliament. He is now correcting those parts with which the EU threatened parts of the United Kingdom. Next step is to ditch the whole WA.

 

Cry God for Boris, for Albion and St George. (Other regional saints attendance optional)

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Thanks - not a direct link but finally found it. An ongoing poll but no data as to the locations of samples.

 

Who takes part in Public Opinion research?

Quote

Over the last eighteen years, YouGov has carefully recruited a panel of over 1 million British adults to take part in our surveys.......

.......For nationally representative samples, YouGov draws a sub-sample of the panel that is representative of British adults in terms of age, gender, social class and education, and invites this sub-sample to complete a survey.

 

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

God. You're good.

 You're making me blush!????????

[3NUMBAS]

The leading Brexiteer MP said: "My message to Barnier is save the money on the ticket and the danger of travelling on public transport at a dangerous time unless you really do understand that we intend to be independent.

"It's no more fish on the cheap, no more control by your court, and no more of you making laws for us.

"We are happy to trade with you but don't expect to boss us around anymore."

He went on to urge Brexiteers "on the verge of victory" to keep up the pressure on the UK Government.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1349136/Brexit-News-John-Redwood-Boris-Johnson-Michel-Barnier-EU-talks-latest-vn

[david555]

1 minute ago, 3NUMBAS said:

The leading Brexiteer MP said: "My message to Barnier is save the money on the ticket and the danger of travelling on public transport at a dangerous time unless you really do understand that we intend to be independent.

"It's no more fish on the cheap, no more control by your court, and no more of you making laws for us.

"We are happy to trade with you but don't expect to boss us around anymore."

He went on to urge Brexiteers "on the verge of victory" to keep up the pressure on the UK Government.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1349136/Brexit-News-John-Redwood-Boris-Johnson-Michel-Barnier-EU-talks-latest-vn

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1349136/Brexit-News-John-Redwood-Boris-Johnson-Michel-Barnier-EU-talks-latest-vn

Fixed it for you as most of your links are bad posted ...now it is clickable …., before not , always must do it 2 times, as you can see now in the quote he is also good now …… 

Edited October 19, 2020 by david555

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Oh yes they did. The cheating EU knows our food standards as they have been aligned with the EU for years.

 We had given no assurances that we would stick to those standards post Brexit. Indeed, an apparent willingness to reduce them in order to get a possible trade deal with the USA indicated that we may very well not have done! 

 

As the link I provided shows, that was all settled in September and this storm in a teacup has blown over.

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Boris was forced into making the WA, which using his new landslide he had to force through a Remainer dominated parliament.

Forced? When he made such a big deal even before the election of it being his oven ready deal? 

 

Remainer dominated Parliament after Boris' landslide? How so?

 

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

He is now correcting those parts with which the EU threatened parts of the United Kingdom. Next step is to ditch the whole WA.

 "Parts with which the EU threatened parts of the United Kingdom!" Go on then; explain those parts in detail and how they threaten parts of the UK.

 

Forget about the so called blockade of Northern Ireland; as shown to you many times, and again today, that was a Boris lie; and even if true any such possible threat has been resolved. Even the government now admit that!

 

Next step to ditch an international treaty signed by our Prime Minister and through the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 approved by our Parliament and given Royal Assent by our Monarch?

 

Seriously?

 

What effect will proving that our Prime Minister lies to his own people, his Parliament and his Monarch, let alone the cosignatories, by signing an international agreement with no intention of sticking to it have on all those nations you are so confident are lining up to sign trade deals with us?

 

17 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Cry God for Boris, for Albion and St George. (Other regional saints attendance optional)

 Misquoting Shakespeare means nothing. I'm English, British and proud of my country. But Boris has dragged this country's name into the deepest cess pit.

 

I can only hope that after the Tories have booted him and his puppet master out of No. 10 next year that his successor can repair the damage to this country's reputation.

 

 

 

[Tofer]

6 hours ago, david555 said:

Simpel answer is just to leave if not agree on it ....not that difficult i would say , if not like it, now it looks like U.K. is forcing a deal out of E.U. they can not agree on .....consequenses why a "divorce "is done !!

Understand your side , so also understand also our side

 

....conclusion as it stands now (and 4 years already )....no deal seems the only possible outcome !!!

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As expected, no sensible answer again.

[david555]

Just now, Tofer said:

As expected, no sensible answer again.

No ..!  you just keep hoping E.U. would roll over …. forget that !

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

No, it hadn't slipped my mind but it appears to slip yours when convenient. Here's my reply in its original context before your selective editing. 

 

 

  2 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

The EU are not looking for agreement on conditions, they are insisting on control of the mechanisms and EUCJ jurisdiction. Not quite the same thing as you assert....

And why not? It is the EU single market. An EU company/ state operating in the UK would be judged according to UK law.

The UK is not a company, and we're not operating in the EU.

 

Heaven help us, it's like pulling teeth....

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Who takes part in Public Opinion research?

 

 You're making me blush!????????

Good question, who exactly?

 

This is an ongoing survey taken at intervals but the limited sample size and other data seems to be only available for the start of it (2016). The results are pro remain at most intervals over the last 4 years. From the initial data, the weighting of sampling by geographical area is disproportionately high in London, the south of England and in Scotland, which probably explains why there is almost always a pro remin bias.

 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, Hi from France said:

the UE has been indeed rejected, there is no discussion there, it's done

 

 

now again please tell me more about what was promised to you. You now have had four years to check the promises made, let's be "no nonsense"

Why do you keep posting these outdated and out of context memes? We debated those things about 4 years ago ????‍♂️

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 We had given no assurances that we would stick to those standards post Brexit. Indeed, an apparent willingness to reduce them in order to get a possible trade deal with the USA indicated that we may very well not have done! 

 

As the link I provided shows, that was all settled in September and this storm in a teacup has blown over.

Forced? When he made such a big deal even before the election of it being his oven ready deal? 

 

Remainer dominated Parliament after Boris' landslide? How so?

 

 "Parts with which the EU threatened parts of the United Kingdom!" Go on then; explain those parts in detail and how they threaten parts of the UK.

 

Forget about the so called blockade of Northern Ireland; as shown to you many times, and again today, that was a Boris lie; and even if true any such possible threat has been resolved. Even the government now admit that!

 

Next step to ditch an international treaty signed by our Prime Minister and through the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 approved by our Parliament and given Royal Assent by our Monarch?

 

Seriously?

 

What effect will proving that our Prime Minister lies to his own people, his Parliament and his Monarch, let alone the cosignatories, by signing an international agreement with no intention of sticking to it have on all those nations you are so confident are lining up to sign trade deals with us?

 

 Misquoting Shakespeare means nothing. I'm English, British and proud of my country. But Boris has dragged this country's name into the deepest cess pit.

 

I can only hope that after the Tories have booted him and his puppet master out of No. 10 next year that his successor can repair the damage to this country's reputation.

The EU threat to NI food supplies has been resolved by the IMB which is still passing through Parliament now.

 

The WA's long and perilous journey has long been documented in this forum. When Boris was elected as PM with a landslide victory and a mandate to Get Brexit Done he still had to get the WA through Parliament before we could actually exit at the end of January. Although he had a massive majority in the HOC, the HOL is still a nest of Remainer vipers. 

 

A few loopholes were still in the WA which he is now resolving, regardless of the current HOL meddling and attempts to prevent it. Even the boss vicars trying to stick their crooks into it now. The whole WA is the next to revoke as we leave No Deal.

 

Boris is enabling this country to hold its' head high in the world and fend of the combined efforts of the EU mafia and domestic fifth columnists. Next year Boris will be riding high and his advisors will be awarded Lordships to even up the ship of labour appointed fools.

 

 

 

[Hi from France]

30 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Yes, we are all grateful for Boris becoming that successful politician who is now Getting Brexit done. We wouldn't be almost there without him, and not stuck in the cheating EU's tentacles. 

The "tentacles" thing is a nice touch, but if the UE is the biggest problem of the UK today (I mean except for those of you who still believe the UK "holds all the cards"), the UK will have to deal with the tentacles of the US and the tentacles of China.

 

Up to you to choose what tentacles you prefer,  but mostly the UK could be entering now in a process of "Lebanization" : torn between bigger powers that each want to tear off a piece of you.

 

• The US will impose their policy on the UK (ban chinese 5G, accept US food standard at the expense of you farmers).
• Russia will keep using Novichok like in Amesbury.
• China will continue breaking the joint declaration on Hong Kong and there's not much the UK can do because they break treaties too. 

 

Clearly it's a dangerous world for Global Britain.

 

 

 

Now the UK does have its own "tentacles" : what is your opinion on Northern Ireland and Scotland, all?

 

Considering these nations want "to take back control" and be a member of the UE, should they be free to do so? Do they have the right to hold an independence referendum or not?

[Tofer]

There's nothing to understand of what you're saying. I am well aware of the fact we have left and very happy, I hope, that we will not be tied to EU's ridiculous demands.

 

Another circuitous comment avoiding the actual question.

 

Never mind, I think I should follow my own advice to transam, and stop wasting my time.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep posting these outdated and out of context memes? We debated those things about 4 years ago ????‍♂️

And like to forget them words said  if possible ….

Edited October 19, 2020 by david555

[Loiner]

On 10/17/2020 at 10:17 AM, Hi from France said:

Hi all!

 

Nice active thread/forum : just created an account.

 

I'm an anglophile (did part of my studies in the UK with Erasmus), very interested in Brexit.

 

best

 

5 hours ago, Hi from France said:

The first part is certainly true "the UK jointly invested in this"... and the rest is just the usual "evil empire" talk. 

 

I think it was a huge blunder to leave the EU, and sticking to your "evil empire", "project fear", "take back control" rhetoric does not help getting a clear vision of what the UK should do next.

 

Brexit in itself was a very very bad idea based on false premises. 

 

Now what is done is done: the UK is out and cannot go back in anytime soon.

 

Now, if at least this stupid Brexit idea had been implemented by the witty and clever british people I used to know, the country could have somehow controlled the damage.

 

Right now this is just a mess, and complaining and repeating the same slogans over and over is not in any way a solution. You know, we used to define (with much admiration) the brits as no-nosense, down-to-earth, efficient, pragmatic people.

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

your country has already walked out, what's done is done, you can blame all you want, but you have no more say in UE policy that I have in british policy.

 

now no-nonsense could start with comparing what was promised to you four years ago and what you have now.

 

let's be down-to-earth and pragmatic, can you recognize these politician and pragmatically tell me if as of today, you still believe what they promised?

 

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

the UE has been indeed rejected, there is no discussion there, it's done

now again please tell me more about what was promised to you. You now have had four years to check the promises made, let's be "no nonsense"

 

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

I understand this forum has a lot of british pensioners, the most brexit-prone demographic. So a lot of hardened brexiters not objectively ready to acknowledge Brexit was indeed a terrible choice.

 

Now, if you poll the British people, there is growing consensus that leaving the EU was the wrong move for the country.

It didn't take you long to decide on which side your anglophile interest in Brexit falls did it? Did you have a Remainer coming out party that we missed somewhere?

Maybe it's because you claim to be French, but I get a distinct feeling of 'Deja Vue'.  Are you sure we haven't met before, in a past life maybe, and now you are like a reincarnation of an old foe?

 

[Loiner]

15 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

The "tentacles" thing is a nice touch, but if the UE is the biggest problem of the UK today (I mean except for those of you who still believe the UK "holds all the cards"), the UK will have to deal with the tentacles of the US and the tentacles of China.

 

Up to you to choose what tentacles you prefer,  but mostly the UK could be entering now in a process of "Lebanization" : torn between bigger powers that each want to tear off a piece of you.

 

• The US will impose their policy on the UK (ban chinese 5G, accept US food standard at the expense of you farmers).
• Russia will keep using Novichok like in Amesbury.
• China will continue breaking the joint declaration on Hong Kong and there's not much the UK can do because they break treaties too. 

Clearly it's a dangerous world for Global Britain.

Now the UK does have its own "tentacles" : what is your opinion on Northern Ireland and Scotland, all?

 

Considering these nations want "to take back control" and be a member of the UE, should they be free to do so? Do they have the right to hold an independence referendum or not?

US and China don't have tentacles which extend into our legislation, borders, resources and foreign policy. I'll take my chances with them rather than the EU.

 

The United Kingdom nations are just that, over hundreds of years. If you want to talk Republican or Indyref2 try it with one of the others. I'm not interested.

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Good question, who exactly?

 

This is an ongoing survey taken at intervals but the limited sample size and other data seems to be only available for the start of it (2016). The results are pro remain at most intervals over the last 4 years. From the initial data, the weighting of sampling by geographical area is disproportionately high in London, the south of England and in Scotland, which probably explains why there is almost always a pro remin bias.

 

Difficult to have a poll on attitudes to the referendum result before the referendum result is known!

 

I can find nothing to substantiate your assertion that "the weighting of sampling by geographical area is disproportionately high in London, the south of England and in Scotland." Perhaps you'd be so kind as to show me where you found that information.

 

Pro Remain bias? No; pro Remain results.

 

Personally, as I've said before, I believe the only polls which count are those at the ballot box. But as opinion polls in general, and YouGov in particular, have been used many times in the past by Brexiteers to 'prove' how popular Brexit is, it is amusing that now they are showing the opposite some are trying to disassociate themselves from that organisation!

[Susco]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

US and China don't have tentacles which extend into our legislation, borders, resources and foreign policy.

Didn't the US recently said openly and clear, that if Boris would bring the Ireland peace agreement in jeopardy, he could write a trade deal with the US on his back?

 

I think that has everything to do with borders, not?

[7by7]

30 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you keep posting these outdated and out of context memes? We debated those things about 4 years ago ????‍♂️

 Yes, and when we Remainers told you that the promises made by Vote.Leave were impossible, all you did was bleat Cummings' mantra 'Project Fear, Project Fear.'

 

All that is still current, and will remain so until we either agree a trade deal with the EU or hit the iceberg of no deal and descend into the depths of WTO terms.

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Heaven help us, it's like pulling teeth....

Even more painful for me.

[7by7]

31 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The EU threat to NI food supplies has been resolved by the IMB which is still passing through Parliament now.

 

The WA's long and perilous journey has long been documented in this forum. When Boris was elected as PM with a landslide victory and a mandate to Get Brexit Done he still had to get the WA through Parliament before we could actually exit at the end of January. Although he had a massive majority in the HOC, the HOL is still a nest of Remainer vipers. 

 

A few loopholes were still in the WA which he is now resolving, regardless of the current HOL meddling and attempts to prevent it. Even the boss vicars trying to stick their crooks into it now. The whole WA is the next to revoke as we leave No Deal.

 

Boris is enabling this country to hold its' head high in the world and fend of the combined efforts of the EU mafia and domestic fifth columnists. Next year Boris will be riding high and his advisors will be awarded Lordships to even up the ship of labour appointed fools.

 

 

 

 If Boris' treacherous IMB will resolve his supposed blockade of Northern Ireland, how come even Boris' government and negotiators have said no such threat of a blockade exists?

 

The European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill was presented to Parliament on 19/12/19 and received Royal Assent on 23/1/21. A remarkable, virtually unpresented, short passage; especially when Parliament was in recess from 20/12/19 until 7/1/20. Not such a difficult journey!

 

If Boris' WA has so many loopholes in it, why did he present it as an oven ready deal before and after the election and celebrate it's signing with such enthusiasm? Lying, or incompetent?

 

If you truly believe that proving to the world that he and his government cannot be trusted is "enabling this country to hold its' head high in the world" then there really is no hope for you.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

The leading Brexiteer MP said: "My message to Barnier is save the money on the ticket and the danger of travelling on public transport at a dangerous time unless you really do understand that we intend to be independent.

"It's no more fish on the cheap, no more control by your court, and no more of you making laws for us.

"We are happy to trade with you but don't expect to boss us around anymore."

He went on to urge Brexiteers "on the verge of victory" to keep up the pressure on the UK Government.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1349136/Brexit-News-John-Redwood-Boris-Johnson-Michel-Barnier-EU-talks-latest-vn

A very helpful and constructive comment from a member of the ruling party!

[david555]

28 minutes ago, RayC said:

A very helpful and constructive comment from a member of the ruling party!

If they really wish that ,...they just have to be absent on the negotiation table .... as alway's  blowing hot and cold same time almost ...and again ...again and again 

Not so difficult i would think to close talks .

They really look frustrated dissapointed the brexit dream version they dreamed of is an utopia one ....

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

58 minutes ago, Loiner said:

US and China don't have tentacles which extend into our legislation, borders, resources and foreign policy. I'll take my chances with them rather than the EU.

 

The United Kingdom nations are just that, over hundreds of years. If you want to talk Republican or Indyref2 try it with one of the others. I'm not interested.

Your United Kingdom does not appear to be very united though does it?

In fact your only method of currently keeping the UK together is to refuse people a democratic vote on whether they want to stay in the union.

Now the last union I can remember which adopted the same policy was the USSR. 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The United Kingdom nations are just that, over hundreds of years. 

Quote

Considering these nations want "to take back control" and be a member of the UE, should they be free to do so? Do they have the right to hold an independence referendum or not?

Well I suppose you know how to find the polls you give us the figures ? Please tell us how many of the NI and Scots citizen : it is probably a hefty majority, even more than the English who now realise that Brexit was a terrible idea sold on lies ..

 

How can you deny them the right to vote in a referendum giving them the choice be free from the "tentacles" of the english, if they wish.

 

Are you afraid they would find it better to leave the UK and be part of the European Union?

[vinny41]

42 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Well I suppose you know how to find the polls you give us the figures ? Please tell us how many of the NI and Scots citizen : it is probably a hefty majority, even more than the English who now realise that Brexit was a terrible idea sold on lies ..

 

How can you deny them the right to vote in a referendum giving them the choice be free from the "tentacles" of the english, if they wish.

 

Are you afraid they would find it better to leave the UK and be part of the European Union?

Are you planning to have a referendum in France on EU membership as only  52% would vote to remain or is France afraid of the result of a referendum should French people ever be given the option of such a vote

[david555]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Are you planning to have a referendum in France on EU membership as only  52% would vote to remain or is France afraid of the result of a referendum should French people ever be given the option of such a vote

Why would there be a referendum ...as we do not see people demonstrating for that ... demonstration where for other things inside France they wanted ( pensions age higher ...) it looks like there is not much appetite for a Frexit ....

 

But I see now the polls show 57% majority for SNP .....after the battle of brexit it seems a battle of Scots independance referendum is waiting you....however it could good be possible N.Irland would unite before  that ...,if you mess up with the Irish solution as now international treaty is  broken by Boris ....

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Hi from France said:

The "tentacles" thing is a nice touch, but if the UE is the biggest problem of the UK today (I mean except for those of you who still believe the UK "holds all the cards"), the UK will have to deal with the tentacles of the US and the tentacles of China.

 

Up to you to choose what tentacles you prefer,  but mostly the UK could be entering now in a process of "Lebanization" : torn between bigger powers that each want to tear off a piece of you.

 

• The US will impose their policy on the UK (ban chinese 5G, accept US food standard at the expense of you farmers).
• Russia will keep using Novichok like in Amesbury.
• China will continue breaking the joint declaration on Hong Kong and there's not much the UK can do because they break treaties too. 

 

Clearly it's a dangerous world for Global Britain.

 

 

 

Now the UK does have its own "tentacles" : what is your opinion on Northern Ireland and Scotland, all?

 

Considering these nations want "to take back control" and be a member of the UE, should they be free to do so? Do they have the right to hold an independence referendum or not?

Deux kilos de tomates s'il vous plaît?

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

Why would there be a referendum ...as we do not see people demonstrating for that ... demonstration where for other things inside France they wanted ( pensions age higher ...) it looks like there is not much appetite for a Frexit ....

 

But I see now the polls show 57% majority for SNP .....after the battle of brexit it seems a battle of Scots independance referendum is waiting you....however it could good be possible N.Irland would unite before  that ...,if you mess up with the Irish solution as now international treaty is  broken by Boris ....

If you look at Polls only 52% French people would vote remain if there was a referendum on EU membership

and more French people believe that the UK will benefit longterm from leaving the EU.

Has being a member of the EU had a positive or negative effect on your country? 35% of French people say that there is a negative effect on being a member of the EU while only 33% think being a member of the EU has a positive effect

and when asked the question Do you trust that the EU has your country's best interests at heart?

a whopping 46% of French people stated that the   EU doesn't have  France's  best interests at heart compare to 26% that think the EU does have France's best interest at heart

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/15/majority-of-germans-think-uk-will-not-benefit-long-term-from-brexit-euronews-survey-reveal

I see here from an interview in 2018 French President Emmanuel Macron says France would 'probably' have voted to leave the EU, if offered the choice in a referendum

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-42768466

[david555]

Backtracking U.K. .... Gove tries to repair Boris walking away outcry  ....needless ..!
as already E.U. told before on Friday they keep negotiating ......a laughable U.K.  brexiteers Government try selling the "E.U.'s neutralizing Boris walk away action" as their achievement  …. ????

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/19/brexit-gove-praises-constructive-move-as-eu-agrees-to-intensify-talks

Michael Gove pulls U-turn at dispatch box as EU makes Brexit offer
Minister’s attack on Brussels subsides as Barnier seems to agree to UK’s demands for resuming talks

Daniel Boffey and Lisa O'Carroll
Mon 19 Oct 2020 16.59 BST

Michael Gove has praised a “constructive move” by the EU in an about-turn after its chief negotiator agreed to Downing Street’s conditions for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal.

Shortly after castigating the EU for its attitude to the talks during an appearance in the House of Commons, Gove had to backtrack as he stood at the dispatch box following a tweet by the bloc’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

 

Barnier who spoke to his British counterpart, David Frost, earlier in the day, wrote: “I just spoke to David Frost. As stated by [European commission president] Ursula von der Leyen on Friday, I confirmed that the EU remains available to intensify talks in London this week, on all subjects, and based on legal texts. We now wait for the UK’s reaction 

Edited October 19, 2020 by david555