Pope says same-sex couples should be covered by civil union laws

[webfact]

Pope says same-sex couples should be covered by civil union laws

By Philip Pullella

 

Pope Francis greets people as he leaves after the weekly general audience, at the Vatican, October 21, 2020. REUTERS/Guglielmo Mangiapane

 

ROME (Reuters) - Pope Francis has said that same-sex couples should be protected by civil union laws in some of the clearest language he has used on the rights of gay people since his election seven years ago.

 

He made his comments in a new documentary "Francesco" by Oscar-nominated director Evgeny Afineevsky that was released on Wednesday.

 

"Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it," he said.

 

"What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that," he said.

 

The pope appeared to be referring to when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires and opposed legislation to approve same-sex marriages but supported some kind of legal protection for the rights of gay couples.

 

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexual tendencies are not sinful but homosexual acts are. It teaches that homosexuals should be treated with dignity but is opposed to gay marriage.

 

Pope Francis says in a new film released on Wednesday that homosexuals should be protected by civil union laws, in some of the clearest language he has used on the rights of gay people. Joe Davies reports.

 

Papal biographer Austen Ivereigh told Reuters that the pope's comments in the film were some of the clearest language the pontiff has used on the subject since his election in 2013.

 

"Pope Francis' clear and public support for same-sex civil unions marks a new stage in the church's relationship with LGBTQ people," said Father James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author of "Building a Bridge," a book about Catholic ministry to homosexuals.

 

"It shows his overall pastoral approach to LGBTQ people, including those who are Catholic, and sends a clear message to those bishops and Church leaders who have opposed such laws," Martin told Reuters.

 

'A VERY POSITIVE MOVE'

A spokesman for United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, who is a devout Catholic, described the pope's remarks as "a very positive move."

 

"The Secretary-General has spoken out very forcefully against homophobia in favor of LGBTQ rights, that people should never be persecuted or discriminated against just for who they love," U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric said.

 

The pope, who early in his papacy made the now-famous "Who am I to judge?" remark about homosexuals trying to live a Christian life, spoke in a section of the film about Andrea Rubera, a gay man who with his partner adopted three children.

 

Rubera says in the film that he went to a morning Mass the pope said in his Vatican residence and gave him a letter explaining his situation.

He told the pope that he and his partner wanted to bring the children up as Catholics in the local parish but did not want to cause any trauma for the children. It was not clear in which country Rubera lives.

 

Rubera said the pope telephoned him several days later, telling him he thought the letter was "beautiful" and urging the couple to introduce their children to the parish but to be ready for opposition.

 

"His message and his advice was really useful because we did exactly what he told us. It's the third year that they (the children) are on a spiritual path in the parish," Rubera says in the film.

 

"He didn't mention what was his opinion about my family so (I think) he is following the doctrine on this point but the attitude towards people has massively changed," he said.

 

In the United States, Alphonso David, president of the Human Rights Campaign, the country's largest LGBTQ civil rights organization, said in a statement on Wednesday:

 

“Many members of the LGBTQ community have had difficulty engaging with places of worship because they have not been accepting of LGBTQ people. We are hopeful that this is another in a line of many actions toward full inclusion and acceptance for LGBTQ people in Catholicism, and in all faiths.”

 

(Reporting by Philip Pullella; Editing by Gareth Jones and Giles Elgood)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-10-22

 

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[Tug]

Good for you pope Francis that’s a loving caring and humanistic thing to do

[Skeptic7]

Silly that anyone cares what this man has to say about anything. Who cares?

[Scott]

Troll post and reply reported and removed.

[Paul Henry]

With the large numbers of Catholics and Christians in the world it is great to see the Vatican moving into the 21st century. With modern science showing the universe is maybe a billion years old this is putting a lot of pressure on all religions. To Skeptic 7 for the record there are well over 1.6 Billion who care, probably a larger number than there are atheists.

[Pedrogaz]

Seems totally reasonable. He's a pretty good pope I think.

[Proboscis]

58 minutes ago, Paul Henry said:

With the large numbers of Catholics and Christians in the world it is great to see the Vatican moving into the 21st century. With modern science showing the universe is maybe a billion years old this is putting a lot of pressure on all religions. To Skeptic 7 for the record there are well over 1.6 Billion who care, probably a larger number than there are atheists.

Well, not quite. They have moved from the late middle ages into the twentieth century by allowing civil union but not marriage. Civil union does not necessarily allow all the rights of marriage. It is a bit like the catholic church allowing for the control of fertility (through the rhythm method) but the banning of the use of contraceptives, including condoms.

 

But I suppose we should look on the bright side. The pope is far more liberal than the latest candidate for the USA supreme court.

[peterpop]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you pope Francis that’s a loving caring and humanistic thing to do

 

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Good for you pope Francis that’s a loving caring and humanistic thing to do

About time the Catholic Church did something good. Just keep them away from kids.

 

[herfiehandbag]

Two points, from the Catholic perspective.

 

The Pope said that gay couples  and any children, however conceived, should be free (and protected) to enjoy a family life, as they are all "children of God". Good, but that is not the same as endorsing same sex marriage, as marriage is, in Catholic belief, a sacrement gifted by God, and therefore cannot be amended or qualified by man.

 

Secondly, he is a Jesuit , and you never quite know what a J is going to do next!

[dexterm]

Well done Pope Francis for encouraging the church to join the 21st Century. 

The next step is to abolish celibacy for priests and nuns, which was only formalized in canon law in 1917.

[pacovl46]

5 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Silly that anyone cares what this man has to say about anything. Who cares?

It’s a big deal because until now the church has been against it big time. A lot of religious people are holding the Bible against gays in quite a lot of countries. Especially in Asia and Latin America, but finally a pope came to his senses and so hopefully the religious discrimination against gays will come to an end in the near future! 

[pacovl46]

About time that a pope finally comes to his senses! Definitely a step in the right direction! 

[Jingthing]

Not a Catholic (thank god) so I don't really care but to me this is kind of like going from being banned from the bus to being allowed to the back of the bus and gay people are now expected to be like thank you so much Mr. Pope for acknowledging that we're human beings. 

 

Now I will don my trusty flak jacket.

[Credo]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not a Catholic (thank god) so I don't really care but to me this is kind of like going from being banned from the bus to being allowed to the back of the bus and gay people are now expected to be like thank you so much Mr. Pope for acknowledging that we're human beings. 

 

Now I will don my trusty flak jacket.

This is actually a fairly big move, and a positive one, on the part of the Catholic Church.   Considering the attitude in many of the predominantly Catholic countries, it may prevent a fair amount of discrimination and even deaths of gays.   

 

I'll take riding in the back of the bus for the time being.   Baby steps are better than no steps.   

[nausea]

A lot of priests are gay, so not too unexpected. My local seminary was divided into two segments, the gay guys and the straight guys.

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.

 

[riclag]

 I don't agree , First comes the priest imop! I hope he  considers his brethren ,they've been shut off for centuries !

" The roots of celibacy requirements go back to Jesus Christ: According to the Bible, he was an unmarried virgin. In the Bible, Jesus is often likened to a bridegroom whose bride is the Church. ... Because of this practice, the Church formally banned the practice of priests marrying about 1,000 years ago, Shea said".

https://www.livescience.com/39898-why-catholic-priests-cant-marry.html#:~:text=The roots of celibacy requirements,whose bride is the Church.&text=Because of this practice%2C the,1%2C000 years ago%2C Shea said.

Edited October 22, 2020 by riclag

[PhonThong]

But still makes sure that divorced couples are demonized in the Catholic Church, regardless of the reasons for divorce.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, Credo said:

This is actually a fairly big move, and a positive one, on the part of the Catholic Church.   Considering the attitude in many of the predominantly Catholic countries, it may prevent a fair amount of discrimination and even deaths of gays.   

 

I'll take riding in the back of the bus for the time being.   Baby steps are better than no steps.   

It may indeed be a positive move but it really isn't as big a move as it may superficially appear. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/pope-francis-same-sex-unions/

 

 

Pope Francis’s position on same-sex unions is more conservative than it seems

Ultimately, he still believes that social life should be organized along heteronormative lines.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It may indeed be a positive move but it really isn't as big a move as it may superficially appear. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/pope-francis-same-sex-unions/

 

 

Pope Francis’s position on same-sex unions is more conservative than it seems

Ultimately, he still believes that social life should be organized along heteronormative lines.

Well, in the past 3 years, we've seen the needle on gay rights move mostly in the wrong direction and in the past year, we've had very little good news on anything.   So, I am going to give this a positive in rather negative time.   

 

[pennine]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:11 AM, Proboscis said:

Well, not quite. They have moved from the late middle ages into the twentieth century by allowing civil union but not marriage. Civil union does not necessarily allow all the rights of marriage. It is a bit like the catholic church allowing for the control of fertility (through the rhythm method) but the banning of the use of contraceptives, including condoms.

 

But I suppose we should look on the bright side. The pope is far more liberal than the latest candidate for the USA supreme court.

Exactly! I was wondering if the Pope's announcement would influence Mrs. Bennett's views on this issue.

[peterpop]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:52 AM, herfiehandbag said:

Two points, from the Catholic perspective.

 

The Pope said that gay couples  and any children, however conceived, should be free (and protected) to enjoy a family life, as they are all "children of God". Good, but that is not the same as endorsing same sex marriage, as marriage is, in Catholic belief, a sacrement gifted by God, and therefore cannot be amended or qualified by man.

 

Secondly, he is a Jesuit , and you never quite know what a J is going to do next!

Yes ....all children of god ... but unless baptised, will go to hell, or has the Pope softened on this one as well.

[herfiehandbag]

5 hours ago, peterpop said:

Yes ....all children of god ... but unless baptised, will go to hell, or has the Pope softened on this one as well.

I don't want to get dragged into theological arguments, but it is my impression that eternal damnation for the non baptised is a "hard line Protestant doctrine" rather than a Catholic one. It certainly does not stay in my memory from my childhood studies of the Catechism. I am comforted by Johns reporting of Our Lords words 'In my Fathers House there are many rooms".

 

I'm also reminded of the story about the atheist, who was surprised to find himself in heaven. The archangel showing him around took him to a high point. "Of course, we have everyone here, look over there, those minarets, that is where the Muslims are, over there, those golden roofs, that is the Buddhists, down there, those people tilling the fields and clutching bibles, they are the protestants."

 

"Who are behind that high wall?"

 

"Oh those are the Catholics, we don't want to disappoint them, you see they think they are the only people here!"