Three dead as woman beheaded in knife attack at French church

[onebir]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

The Goat had nothing to do with it.

I think he might be suggesting that the Goat was M's 'special friend'.

[Thorgal]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You do no provide any links to support your statements. You do not provide a rationale limiting the scope of the analysis to the last 3 years. I don't know that there was a huge difference regarding 'influx of migration and radical Islamists' in these last 3 years - my guess is that thing may look a bit different if one extends the scope to earlier times.

 

1. -> There are plenty English articles available on the net.

 

https://www.albiontimes.co.uk/france-has-average-of-120-knife-attacks-per-day/

 

2. -> I don’t have to provide the rationale limiting the scope of the analysis to the last 3 years. I don’t work for the French police and/or interpol.

 

3. -> Some 260 people died in France since 2012 due to radical Islamic terrorism. 2012, year in which France finished bombing Lybia and started to bomb in Syria. Both conflicts created a huge influx on mass migration to EU.

 

4. -> You don’t know and you’re guessing. Nevertheless it’s interesting.

 

 

[pacovl46]

9 hours ago, Opl said:

 

What they are pushing for is for France to adopt a blasphemy law.

You can always submit to the Muslim World, today for cartoons, tomorrow for gender equality,  may girls sit next to boys in classrooms, what do you teach abouit Israël,  etc.. the cartoon is just a pretext, a Trojan horse 

And how many attacks exactly have happened because of the reasons you’ve stated? That’s right- none! That <deleted> usually always goes down after Charlie Hebdo releases another cartoon making fun of Muhammad! So again, how many people have to die before they stop doing that? It’s a well known fact that they hate it when they do that! 

[pacovl46]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

I won't try to comment on all the ways your post is foolish except to say that many lives have been lost in many countries for many years in support of freedom in all its forms. "A man who has nothing worth dying for has nothing worth living for." 

 

I don't know your homeland but it may be that your freedom to spout fatuous nonsense was preserved that way as well. 

 

Do you seriously think these attacks have anything at all to do with Charlie Hebdo? It's all about religious fanaticism served by repression and control.

How many people have died in direct response to Hebdo releasing cartoons making fun of Mohammed?! Every time they realize one of their stupid cartoons doing that people die! 
 

In my opinion the lives of people is way more important than Hebdo having the right to publish their BS under the disguise of “freedom of speech” and if that makes me silly or my post nonsense then so fricking be it! I couldn’t care less about your inconsiderate opinion anyway! 

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, morrobay said:

Let's hope the French have had it with these 10 % of the population and vote La-Pen this time. 

How extremely unpleasant. I am afraid only La Pen can solve this continuing problem... Pity she is so against the EU.

[daejung]

10 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

How many more people have to die for the sake of Charlie Hebdo exercising their freedom of speech?! Is making fun of a religion really more important than the lives of your citizens, especially when you know perfectly well that your caricatures are not going to go down well and people have previously died for the same BS?! Just how selfish and egotistical can one be?! 

Islamists are not going to subimt us to their rules. This is freedom of speech. and just freedom
 

Quote

"You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war." This was Winston Churchill's statement after Neville Chamberlain returned from signing the Munich Pact with Hitler.

 

[daejung]

18 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

How many people have died in direct response to Hebdo releasing cartoons making fun of Mohammed?! Every time they realize one of their stupid cartoons doing that people die! 
 

In my opinion the lives of people is way more important than Hebdo having the right to publish their BS under the disguise of “freedom of speech” and if that makes me silly or my post nonsense then so fricking be it! I couldn’t care less about your inconsiderate opinion anyway! 

BS is what you write, not Charlie Hebdo

[Opl]

25 minutes ago, daejung said:

Islamists are not going to subimt us to their rules. This is freedom of speech. and just freedom
 

 

 

We- cheese-eating surrender monkeys have enough beeing slaughtered like sheeps 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Opl

[kingdong]

On 10/29/2020 at 11:10 AM, 7by7 said:

I see from some of the posts above that this vile  murderer has, like every Islamist terrorist before them, achieved their aim of stirring up more ignorant hatred against the vast majority of innocent Muslims who condemn such outrages as much as we.

 

Hatred which leads to retaliation such as "An attempted murder enquiry has also been opened in Paris after two Muslim women were "stabbed repeatedly" underneath the Eiffel Tower, prosecutors confirmed today.

French police have arrested two female suspects following the suspected racist attacks which were allegedly accompanied by the words "Dirty Arabs!"

(Source)

 

 Such 'retaliation' is exactly what these terrorist scum want as it acts as recruiters for them. Those of us old enough to remember the Troubles know that very well.

 

Why do you people keep on doing the terrorists work for them?

Perhaps because turning the other cheek isn,t making it.

[Slip]

13 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

We- cheese-eating coward monkeys have enough beeing slaughtered like sheeps 

It's "cheese-eating surrender-monkeys" old chap.

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, Redline said:

Bring back public execution for those guilty without a doubt in regard to terrorism

There's no need for the vulgarity of a public execution they could be done in private.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

1. -> There are plenty English articles available on the net.

 

https://www.albiontimes.co.uk/france-has-average-of-120-knife-attacks-per-day/

 

2. -> I don’t have to provide the rationale limiting the scope of the analysis to the last 3 years. I don’t work for the French police and/or interpol.

 

3. -> Some 260 people died in France since 2012 due to radical Islamic terrorism. 2012, year in which France finished bombing Lybia and started to bomb in Syria. Both conflicts created a huge influx on mass migration to EU.

 

4. -> You don’t know and you’re guessing. Nevertheless it’s interesting.

 

 

 

 

So, there are "plenty English articles available", and yet you manage to pick one from an obscure, dodgy online venue. Not 'big' enough for fact-checking websites to get into, yet, but it's pending status isn't all that great -

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sources-pending/ (find The Albion Times on the list, note the numeric code to the right, scroll down and find that 7 designates "Questionable (fake, extreme bias)".

 

You do not have to work for the French police or Interpol in order to provide a rationale for your claims and posts. That's just the usual sort of nonsense arguments. The point implied was that it wouldn't be a surprise for figures to be similar, as nothing super dramatic happened that would effect them. Checking current figures vs. say 5, 10, 15 years back (or more) would be of greater relevance.

 

My guess is relying on reason. Your post relies on....something else.

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

The killing and beheading of these 3 persons inside Nice Notre-Dame Church  took place on the day of the Muslim feast of Aid Al  Mawlid, celebrating the birth of the prophet Mohammed

 

If you're trying to infer the murders were a celebration of Muhammad's birthday, should know Islamist / Wahhabi ideology reject the celebration of Aid Al  Mawlid e.g. not celebrated in Saudi Arabia

[Opl]

Just now, simple1 said:

 

If you're trying to infer the murders were a celebration of Muhammad's birthday, should know Islamist / Wahhabi ideology reject the celebration of Aid Al  Mawlid e.g. not celebrated in Saudi Arabia

so basically, when kouffars get their throats cut by Islamists, it's their fault in fact 

[simple1]

Just now, Opl said:

so basically, when kouffars get their throats cut by Islamists, it's their fault in fact 

 

from the POV of Islamists, guess so.

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

from the POV of Islamists, guess so.

+

• S 2, V190-193
• S5, V 51
• S5, V 73
• S9, V5
• S9, V 29
• etc...

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Opl said:

+

• S 2, V190-193
• S5, V 51
• S5, V 73
• S9, V5
• S9, V 29
• etc...

 

Yep, guess they are the Sword verses, the favourite of Islamist ideologues. You will not accept the following, but some may be interested to read the context...

 

https://www.alislam.org/articles/why-does-quran-say-that-infidels-should-be-killed/

Edited October 30, 2020 by simple1

[Thorgal]

31 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

So, there are "plenty English articles available", and yet you manage to pick one from an obscure, dodgy online venue. Not 'big' enough for fact-checking websites to get into, yet, but it's pending status isn't all that great -

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sources-pending/ (find The Albion Times on the list, note the numeric code to the right, scroll down and find that 7 designates "Questionable (fake, extreme bias)".

 

You do not have to work for the French police or Interpol in order to provide a rationale for your claims and posts. That's just the usual sort of nonsense arguments. The point implied was that it wouldn't be a surprise for figures to be similar, as nothing super dramatic happened that would effect them. Checking current figures vs. say 5, 10, 15 years back (or more) would be of greater relevance.

 

My guess is relying on reason. Your post relies on....something else.

 

 

From your source/link of Mediabiasfastcheck:

 

"The following sources are pending review. (Some sources might not be added based on a variety of factors)
(Click on the links below at your own risk. We have not verified them and some may lead to undesirable websites)

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sources-pending/

 

From Wikipedia :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

 

"The website has been described as an amateur effort to rate news media sources based on factual accuracy and political bias."

 

"The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."

 

"Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications."

 

-> My source cited its official criminology report from the French ONDRP (report from December 2019), indeed something else than all above :

 

"The figures, which come from the National Observatory of Delinquency and Criminal Responses (ONDRP), claim that between 2015 and 2017 there were around 44,000 victims of knife crime each year, or an average of 120 per day."

 

-> The original text originated from the first official publication in the French news outlet Le Figaro. No translations in English are available.

 

-> This topic was also discussed publicly on 30th of September 2020 by Eric Zemmour (French writer/journalist) and Alain Bauer (ancient grand master of the Grand Orient) on French television Cnews.

 

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

From your source/link of Mediabiasfastcheck:

 

"The following sources are pending review. (Some sources might not be added based on a variety of factors)
(Click on the links below at your own risk. We have not verified them and some may lead to undesirable websites)

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sources-pending/

 

From Wikipedia :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

 

"The website has been described as an amateur effort to rate news media sources based on factual accuracy and political bias."

 

"The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."

 

"Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications."

 

-> My source cited its official criminology report from the French ONDRP (report from December 2019), indeed something else than all above :

 

"The figures, which come from the National Observatory of Delinquency and Criminal Responses (ONDRP), claim that between 2015 and 2017 there were around 44,000 victims of knife crime each year, or an average of 120 per day."

 

-> The original text originated from the first official publication in the French news outlet Le Figaro. No translations in English are available.

 

-> This topic was also discussed publicly on 30th of September 2020 by Eric Zemmour (French writer/journalist) and Alain Bauer (ancient grand master of the Grand Orient) on French television Cnews.

 

 

 

Unless mistaken, the 'pending' bit was addressed in my post. As for criticism on the website used, two things can be said - one, that it's widely used, and second, that it still doesn't make your choice of reference (out of the claimed many available) any less obscure or dodgy (yeah, had a look at other stories published). You want to do some more deflecting on this point?  go right ahead.

 

The rest of your comments have nothing much to do with my posts. Simply reiterating what's in the article linked does not address the points and questions raised.

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, Opl said:

Do not mispresent my comments ?  

There is no lone wolf, the friends, the family, the siblings, the spouses, the neighbors, the neighbors of the neighbors, all shut up, protect each other... and we are the victims of our tolerance.

This time is over, and our country prevails.

I don't care if you had to leave your country because your people don't accept single mothers, if your son is trafficking and harassing our police,  then you should be  in trouble.

We are fed up of beeing weak by beeing fair at our expenses and detriment.

I have to say I am quite impressed with the reaction in France. When these attacks happen in the UK the authorities desperately try to conceal the (obvious) motive and religious background of the perpetrators for days. In France there was no time wasted pussy footing around.

 

I even have some admiration for Macron's aggressive response - and I've never been a fan of his. I hope this is followed up with some tough action. France cannot tolerate their citizens being mutilated by these religious nutcases for much longer, surely. 

[evadgib]

30 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

they may have to bring back concentration camps and guilotines to curb this rabble of killers

IMO capital punishment is entirely appropriate for terror involving loss of life; as is the immediate forfeiture of right of abode for lesser offences committed by II's/dual nationals/asylum abusers etc wherever possible.

The time for pussyfooting is over.

Edited October 30, 2020 by evadgib

[El Matador]

As a Frenchman I would like to avoid Le Pen at all cost as she's the biggest idiot.

But it is true the inmigration policy in France has been quite a disaster for a while.

 

The best way to stay in France is seeking asylum and lie on your age and you will be welcome as a minor with no question asked as you have the right to refuse any test to confirm your age. That Pakistani guy who went to Charlie building with a knife a few weeks ago did it ; he was 8 years older than what he pretented and it was completly obvious when you looked at his picture. The Chechen guy came with his family to France by writing the same sad essay for the asylum application as everybody. Got refused first but welcomed the second time. Anyway even when they are told to leave the country after being rejected people just evaporate in the nature.

An Algerian terrorist was relased after years of jail ; he lost his French passport but he couldn't be sent to Algeria because the European Court said he was at risk in Algeria. So basically you can't send off terrorists in some countries because they are terrorist. What an absolute non sense.

In someway we deserve a bit what is happening not because of some offensive cartoons but because we are stupid enough to keep considering some violent and dishonest people as victims.

 

On the other hand, you can be a very hard worker foreign guy or the nicest and most respectful Thai lady and you will face a very hard time with the French bureaucracy by using the honest and legal way.

People who spit on the French culture but want the economic benefits know the tricks and the loopholes to stay in the country and they take the  spot better and more honest people could have taken.

Many politicians say inmigration is a great chance for the country but they all live in the same districts in central Paris far from the suburbs where all the inmigrants concentrate and will avoid to send their children in schools there at all cost. The level of the schools there is pretty miserable. I hear stories of one of my friends working there as teacher, you wouldn't believe you are in a developped country.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by El Matador

[onebir]

5 minutes ago, El Matador said:

I hear stories of one of my friends working there as teacher, you wouldn't believe you are in a developped country.

What kind of thing?

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, El Matador said:

As a Frenchman I would like to avoid Le Pen at all cost as she's the biggest idiot.

But it is true the inmigration policy in France has been quite a disaster for a while.

 

The best way to stay in France is seeking asylum and lie on your age and you will be welcome as a minor with no question asked as you have the right to refuse any test to confirm your age. That Pakistani guy who went to Charlie building with a knife a few weeks ago did it ; he was 8 years older than what he pretented and it was completly obvious when you looked at his picture. The Chechen guy came with his family to France by writing the same sad essay for the asylum application as everybody. Got refused first but welcomed the second time. Anyway even when they are told to leave the country after being rejected people just evaporate in the nature.

An Algerian terrorist was relased after years of jail ; he lost his French passport but he couldn't be sent to Algeria because the European Court said he was at risk in Algeria. So basically you can't send off terrorists in some countries because they are terrorist. What an absolute non sense.

In someway we deserve a bit what is happening not because of some offensive cartoons but because we are stupid enough to keep considering some violent and dishonest people as victims.

 

On the other hand, you can be a very hard worker foreign guy or the nicest and most respectful Thai lady and you will face a very hard time with the French bureaucracy by using the honest and legal way.

People who spit on the French culture but want the economic benefits know the tricks and the loopholes to stay in the country and they take the  spot better and more honest people could have taken.

Many politicians say inmigration is a great chance for the country but they all live in the same districts in central Paris far from the suburbs where all the inmigrants concentrate and will avoid to send their children in schools there at all cost. The level of the schools there is pretty miserable. I hear stories of one of my friends working there as teacher, you wouldn't believe you are in a developped country.

A few days ago reports surfaced in UK of a man aged around 40 with a receding hairline being 'outed' by a school/parents for being passed off as a pupil. A 15 year old girl in his class raised the alarm via FB. The school claim that they had their suspicions but were powerless to act...

[El Matador]

7 minutes ago, onebir said:

What kind of thing?

Pupils bringing their knife in the classroom (thanks god at least it is not America where you can get a gun)

An angry parent pushing the school director (a woman) on the wall for almost no reason.

Insults towards teachers are very common and very litlle punished.

The teachers are told to avoid conflicts at all cost so some young boys can take control of the classroom.

When you see how kids are peaceful in South East Asia, you can feel the contrast.

 

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

A few days ago reports surfaced in UK of a man aged around 40 with a receding hairline being 'outed' by a school/parents for being passed off as a pupil. A 15 year old girl in his class raised the alarm via FB. The school claim that they had their suspicions but were powerless to act...

Crazy. I can't really blame that guy to do it if we are stupid enough to allow this kind of nonsense happening.

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

How many people have died in direct response to Hebdo releasing cartoons making fun of Mohammed?! Every time they realize one of their stupid cartoons doing that people die! 
 

In my opinion the lives of people is way more important than Hebdo having the right to publish their BS under the disguise of “freedom of speech” and if that makes me silly or my post nonsense then so fricking be it! I couldn’t care less about your inconsiderate opinion anyway! 

Then by all means live your life in such a way as to never antagonize anybody who holds a different opinion. In other words become a minion to anybody that represents a threat to your personal safety. Freedom of speech is just that ; there is no disguise. You miss the point of freedom completely;  so be it. 

[El Matador]

Charlie Hebdo is just an excuse to attack people.

The Catholic church is mocked a lot by Charlie Hebdo too but it was attacked by that Islamist guy yesterday.

They killed hundreds of people at a concert hall in Paris in 2015. Maybe it was because the music was too loud?

And they attacked people at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester because her skirt was too offensive maybe?

I don't think autocenshorship in this context will help anything.

 

I can understand why Charlie Hebdo cartoons can be seen as offensive and disrepectful for foreigners. France has maybe the longest tradition of satirical cartoons in the world and French humor can be sometimes much more (maybe too?) offensive than the British one for example.

But you also have to put it in the context of French history : since the French revolution the powerful people have always been mocked in a harsh way, and France has a pretty strict law on secularism (laïcité) since 1905 putting religion in the private sphere but it has been a big battle with the Catholic church to leave them outside of politics.

Those Charlie Hebdo cartoonists are mainly arnarchist people who mock a bit everything in a harsh way but without much political purpose. They don't have a massive audience either, jokes are not always good, but they have been here for decades so they are a bit part of French history and freedom of speech without the need to represent France in its essence.

The Monthy Pytons were seen as very offensive 50 years ago. Fortunately for them they were not killed because the Church had evolved a bit since the middle Age.

At the end of the day, I think the most offensive person in the world is probably Darwin.

Thinking we are descendent of monkeys is probably the most insulting thing to holly books.

We can start to do more autocenshorship to not offend anyone but it means we are mainly giving more power to the most obscurantist people.

[scoupeo]

Isn't France a Muslim country since a long time ?

 

[simple1]

9 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

When these attacks happen in the UK the authorities desperately try to conceal the (obvious) motive and religious background of the perpetrators

 

With regards to the OP there was no doubt as to the nature of the killings and immediately identified as a terror attack, as would happen in the UK. If there was insufficient evidence available in the immediate aftermath of the murders, French authorities, as would UK, put on hold the labelling of the attack until completion of further investigations.

 

Alleging conspiracy, by UK security agencies to cover up Islamist motivated attacks, is an insult to those serving to protect.

Edited October 30, 2020 by simple1