OPINION: When hoteliers emerge from 2020, the business will be hard

[darrendsd]

Sorry Anthony but the points you have raised for change should be standard practice anyway but you are only changing them because of the situation you now find yourself in?

 

If people are paying top prices to stay at top hotels and this is the kind of service you are providing them then you really should be ashamed 

 

 

[madmitch]

Easy for Mr Lark to say, when the price of a single night stay next weekend is THB27,000 baht on Booking.com.

 

I'd prefer to listen to someone in the real world!

[Mises]

Trisara really miss the talented Mr Lark

As A family we used to eat there regularly, Sunday Brunch once or twice a month.  As regular locals we were given 20% discount.  What did Trisara do in response to COVID?  Cancel the discount.  We have not been back there in 6 months.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Mises
Spelling

[Lacessit]

I don't understand why hotels have minibars, it makes more sense to have a vending machine on each floor.

Better turnover of stock, don't have to maintain individual rooms, or chase down guests who eat and drink without paying.

Never use them, if they came with a nubile young Thai attendant I might change my mind.

[chang1]

16 minutes ago, Tidybeard said:

 

What do you think is going to happen when the lock downs stop ??? At some point in time you need to be exposed to a virus, and hope that your immune system can cope. The best thing that World Governments to have done would have been to set up huge manufacturing plants for Vitamin D and distribute it freely around the global population.

 

Anything else just delays the inevitable.... including Thailand

 

2 minutes ago, Harry Fingerling said:

Carry on excluding everyone until it’s safe to do so.

Will these 2 ever agree on a way forward?

I am in-between - I think those that are happy to carry on and accept the risks should be allowed to carry on as normal and the rest of us that are shielding, vulnerable or just scared should be protected much more - such as -

Separate shopping days

Better access to home deliveries 

More testing 

Furloughed from high risk jobs like barmen or teachers 

Etc.

 

In time better treatments will be found and maybe even a vaccine otherwise we will just have to hope it naturally dies away but I suspect that will not happen as it seems to mutate like flue.

[chang1]

9 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Easy for Mr Lark to say, when the price of a single night stay next weekend is THB27,000 baht on Booking.com.

 

I'd prefer to listen to someone in the real world!

For that money I would expect each room to have its own dedicated chef and barman. As for charging for anything on top, that is just plain stupid. Being made to wait at checkout while the minibar is checked and other extras are added up is nuts. 

Anyway who cares what is important to that kind of hotel - they are a drop in the ocean (of Chinese tour group hotels).

[Chelseafan]

19 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Sorry Anthony but the points you have raised for change should be standard practice anyway but you are only changing them because of the situation you now find yourself in?

 

If people are paying top prices to stay at top hotels and this is the kind of service you are providing them then you really should be ashamed 

 

 

 

Got to agree. I'm lucky that my job allows me to stay in some of the most lavish hotels in the world including many of the so-called 5*'s in Thailand and I have to say that when you compare the service and facilities to somwhere like Dubai, Japan or Singapore, Thailand are years behind. A lot of these features he mentioned are already standard.

 

[Chelseafan]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't understand why hotels have minibars, it makes more sense to have a vending machine on each floor.

Better turnover of stock, don't have to maintain individual rooms, or chase down guests who eat and drink without paying.

Never use them, if they came with a nubile young Thai attendant I might change my mind.

 

Because it's a nice earner. I expect that physiologically speaking, people are more prone to take from the mini-bar than having to get dressed and walk to the end of the corridor to get a mini vodka bottle.

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

Can we ask the OP why all the shortcomings that he listed, things that he was clearly aware of and admitted, only now need to be corrected. He has been in the business for decades and only now, now that his Associations' hotels are empty, does he dream up a 'Guests Bill Of Rights' and want to stop the overcharging (his word) and nickel and diming (his phrase). And his hotels still charge for the internet?

[Bangyai]

21 hours ago, steven100 said:

hang on a minute Anthony   !!   .....  don't worry, the Chinese are coming, TAT said so  ...  !

 

Yup.

 

Phukets international tourist destination doll has done dancing.

 

When finally ( and it could be a long wait ) there is any significant improvement in tourist inflows it will not resemble the past situation in any way. Everything will be more expensive right across the board and as a destination it will be too expensive except for the wealthy and tourists from nearby countries who wont have to pay so much for their airfares.

 

The future of Phuket is with the Chinese. They will come in numbers and buy up all the bust businesses.

 

People in the tourist industry from places like Pattaya , Phuket and others should have been protesting in front of immigration right from the beginning demanding in country 90 day visas for tourists who were stuck here and wanted to stay. Instead they sat on their hands while the few remaining cash cows were herded out of the country.

 

Too late now of course and the result is what you see now , the death of the tourist industry.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Andy from Kent said:

 

We recently stayed at what on the Agoda site claimed was a 5 star hotel.     I don't really know the difference between a 4 and 5 star hotel.      I only know it was very nice and cost only 1700 baht which included an outstanding breakfast buffet.     Due to prior commitments we could only stay the  one night.

What really surprised me was  when we checked in the reception staff asked us when we planned to check out the following day.     I told them we would be leaving shortly after 10:00 A.M. and the clerk replied we were welcome to check out at 1:00 P.M. if we so chose.     I believe that's the fist time I've ever been proffered that.

Next time in Bangkok I know where we'll be staying.   It was right on the river as well.

 

 

And. although they treated you well and deserve our custom, you ignore the opportunity to give them some welcome publicity. Instead, you keep the name of the hotel a secret. Why do you think they treat you well? Because you are special/handsome? Or because you might tell others, give positive feedback? You've let them down by not telling us the name of the hotel. I have no idea why that might be.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Bangkok Barry

[Bangkok Barry]

18 minutes ago, chang1 said:

Being made to wait at checkout while the minibar is checked and other extras are added up is nuts.

I've only ever experienced that in Thailand. I find it insulting and make my feelings known to the duty manager. I've been told more than once it is because the Thais steal everything in sight so the check has become routine for everyone.

[vandeventer]

Again people need to be a jack of all trades and not a master of one. People in many countries are sticking to their line of work but should be doing other jobs to feed their families. The whole stupid world in on lockdown. Look at the death rate not the test positive rate.

[Bangkok Barry]

42 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Sorry Anthony but the points you have raised for change should be standard practice anyway but you are only changing them because of the situation you now find yourself in?

 

If people are paying top prices to stay at top hotels and this is the kind of service you are providing them then you really should be ashamed 

 

 

 

It's been my experience, over decades of mostly business travel for some 9+ months a year and staying in anything from 5 star places to motels, that the cheaper a place is the more they offer for free. Bizarre but true, especially in the USA.

[DrTuner]

Usurpers are comfortable destroying the tourism industry. I see no reason why they wouldn't continue on the same path after covid is gone. After all, their best buddies in CCP will line their pockets handsomely for selling the country and tourists are just a nasty crowd of onlookers. Big deals are best done out of sight.

[johnbarpic]

This guy should be made hotel president seems to have great ideas that would make customers return time after time ????????????

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, chang1 said:

This is a common kind of comment I see but little thought seems to be given to the reasoning for it. 

My first question is how much is a human life worth? 

2nd - how many people are you willing to sacrifice to keep your job?

3rd - many of those who get covid19 and survive have ongoing health problems caused by it - how do you put a value on that?

4th - what restrictions, if any, would you put in place instead of lockdowns?

5th - how many people will die because they can't get treated in hospitals?

6th - how bad would it have to get before you would recommend a lockdown?

 

The last question is the most important as this is the point where it directly affects you. Remember you don't have to be infected with covid19 to be killed due to it. If hospitals are over run with patients then a relatively minor illness or injury could be fatal for you. Suddenly it is not just the old and fat that are dying. During winter in the UK our hospitals are stretched due to flue so add in covid19 when there is no spare capacity means other patients can't be treated. We are starting our 2nd lockdown this week not due to "hysteria" but due to real evidence about the spread of covid19 and its repercussions if we don't. 

OK. I feel confident to answer your questions.

1st - all lives are worth the same - but protecting, support and targeting those more vulnerable is better for the economy. Average age of death in uk is about 83 - average life expectancy in uk is an amazing lower 82 !! People jobs and homes and mental health are just as important as their lives in most cases.

2nd - I do not work, nobody should be sacrificed - hence targeted lockdown of old and vulnerable with support. Basically saying 300 people should lose their job for an obese fatty dying somewhere or an 85 year old is economic madness.

3rd. i imagine there are more people suffering with the stroke after effects, morbid obesity HIV and other illnesses than covid after effects. We do not ban people from eating due to the after effects of obesity on the NHS.

4th. I would keep lockdown - but targeted approach - banning fat people from Mcdonalds for health may be ok, but why would you healthy people that do not abuse junk food ? 

5th FACT : Currently in UK 400% more excess people died in the UK due to previous  lockdowns from other things than covid - 400% more people may be alive without being locked up.

6th. I do not think it would need being locked down more with targeting lockdowns and support.

7th. I have a long term illness that may be effected in this illness. I would be OK being locked down in my home for a 1-3 months - WITH SUPPORT. I live on my own when in the UK , I have no support structure, so even if I was tested positive I'd probably have to break the law to get food ! We built 2 hospitals in London for covid - neither are being used - seperate covid hospitals from non-covid.

 

I think I'd turn the question back to you - how many people is it ok to lose their job, home and lifestyle for the death of a 95 years old or obese smoker ? 

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You keep banging this drum whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that there was 'only' 1 million deaths' precisely because countries locked-down and self-isolated.

During lockdown - 400% more people died from other reasons other than covid - there are more excess death now this year due to non covid than covid judging from previous data.

 

We cannot keep opening , shutting , opening , shutting opening , shutting. 

 

Would I agree to a full lockdown you suggest. YES, 100% if a cure was a month away, I think we could all agree that, but YOU cannot give me a date for a vaccine can you ? We cannot shut everything down on a 'possibility' forever.

 

 

 

 

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, chang1 said:

Are you sure that is a fact or is it just an uninformed guess?

The first lockdown was being reported as saving many lives and not just from covid19.  Less people were dying at work, on the roads and especially there was a big fall in deaths due to improved air quality. 

 

[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, vacajan said:

How Mr. Coleman feels about 1 million elders is unacceptable!  Those elders know the past from the 1940's to the 45th century.  Then people who no longer fit into society's image were horribly murdered in death camps.  Mr. Coleman will not worry about that.  I think it's disrespectful.  Hopefully you will grow old too, but whether you will contribute much to society with that mentality is very doubtful.

Grow up - trying to insinuate a targeted approach is the same as a nazi death camp shows immaturity in mind.

 

More people will not reach old age due to non-related covid deaths now than those dying above the average UK age of death with covid !

 

[TERMINATOR3AB]

Ok  dudes   look at  the  world Pandemic  it is real  millions   dead  

Ask the  dead ......  rather loose your  job ....  live hard for  a few years  ....loose your  past luxuries

Or  be  dead  from virus?  (ohh  and you do  not have to be fat and old to die from virus   idiot)

 What  would  be the answer  stupids  

Live of  course   survival   is our  greatest   insticnt

Not happy  with the new Thailand  

But  your  clever  about the Virus  

Do not  spoil it  by being  greedy money  hungry  butt   wipes  ......water  finds its level 

The  Virus will  fade out in time  ...in the mean  time save as many  lives  as you can

Feed the poor  .... look after  the poor ... stop  pondering  to the rich and wealthy ... stop  kissing the backside of the Chinese

Be your  own  men ....get  real  

Good Luck  Thaialnd

[Sean60]

The Thai government's successful in to stop the covid19 from coming to Thailand. 

The job however dose not stop there. The government made a decision to keep the borders of the kingdom shut down.

It is now 8 months that we live under those conditions. This also I think was a correct decision. We cold achieve the same results with less cost by doing somethings different. But never mind.

The function of government is to ease the pain on it's citizens. They should of created relief packages to business owners. Not only the big hotel and restaurant chains. But all of us that pay tax social security. 

Nothing!!!! We are to survive on our own. No help from this government. I have invested loads of money here and I had hoped that government will support and protect our investment here in Thailand. However they have done nothing to us. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Grow up - trying to insinuate a targeted approach is the same as a nazi death camp shows immaturity in mind.

 

More people will not reach old age due to non-related covid deaths now than those dying above the average UK age of death with covid !

 

While it is convenient to tout a targeted approach for your argument, the fact remains many younger people, while not dying from the virus, are being severely incapacitated and face weeks or months of rehabilitation.

Tell me, how do you propose to deal with that issue?

[RichardColeman]

16 minutes ago, Sean60 said:

The Thai government's successful in to stop the covid19 from coming to Thailand. 

Having 163 countries doing more testing per million than you sort of negates that statement

[RichardColeman]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

While it is convenient to tout a targeted approach for your argument, the fact remains many younger people, while not dying from the virus, are being severely incapacitated and face weeks or months of rehabilitation.

Tell me, how do you propose to deal with that issue?

In 2006 I had pneumonia, my lungs are ok, but never the same as previously. I know what it is like to be incapacitated and have months of rehabilitation. You just have to plough through it and get on with it. Don't feel sorry for yourself. I would suggest more people are living with the after effects of strokes, obesity, diabetes, lung illnesses (non covid) etc than covid after symptoms. Do you think covid after symptoms make up 0.1% of those suffering other after effects ? I seriously doubt it.

 

Of all ages - 1 in 11 deaths in the UK are Obesity related. 400,000 people die in Europe - EVERY YEAR. It means something like in the past 10 years - 500,000 people in the UK have died from obesity. Covid is currently on track for less deaths than obesity this year. Are we proposing the banning of fatties from McD ? Are we banning fatties from sweet and ice cream shops ?Are we forcing fatties to stay home ? and force salad down their throats ? No. course not. Yet, here we are destroying the economy for less death than a chosen lifestyle of obesity. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

During lockdown - 400% more people died from other reasons other than covid - there are more excess death now this year due to non covid than covid judging from previous data.

 

We cannot keep opening , shutting , opening , shutting opening , shutting. 

 

Would I agree to a full lockdown you suggest. YES, 100% if a cure was a month away, I think we could all agree that, but YOU cannot give me a date for a vaccine can you ? We cannot shut everything down on a 'possibility' forever.

 

 

 

 

Absolute, unadulterated nonsense. Talking about 'people died from other reasons other than covid' is completely irrelevant. We know people die from other causes (as they do every year) but the topic is about dying prematurely from C19 and we absolutedly know that people are dying in very large numbers because of this virus. They may be old, unhealthy and with underlying health conditions (something you seem to have a particular bugbear about) but that's not exclusive and it's also not your call to be quite so cavalier about someone else's life.

Many governments (who I'm guessing are much better informed than you) are facing a very difficult choice between economy and saving lives and rightly so, have made the difficult choice to safeguard lives over the economy (with the obvious few and significent exceptions). Many should have acted sooner and more decisively (like Taiwan, S. Korea, New Zealand and even Thailand) but having missed their small window of opportunity to get on top of this, are now facing big numbers and an overwhelmed health service. With no vacine for the forseeable future (but with much promise from the likes of Astra Zenica. Pfizer, Moderna (https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-pipeline-types/579122/) they are basically gambling that they will have to lock-down one, possibly two times more before they have a vacine and therefore another option, probably by summer of next year.  

It's the right thing to do and no amount of your 'let them rot' attitude is going to change that.     

 

  

[johnnybangkok]

10 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

In 2006 I had pneumonia, my lungs are ok, but never the same as previously. I know what it is like to be incapacitated and have months of rehabilitation. You just have to plough through it and get on with it. Don't feel sorry for yourself. I would suggest more people are living with the after effects of strokes, obesity, diabetes, lung illnesses (non covid) etc than covid after symptoms. Do you think covid after symptoms make up 0.1% of those suffering other after effects ? I seriously doubt it.

 

Of all ages - 1 in 11 deaths in the UK are Obesity related. 400,000 people die in Europe - EVERY YEAR. It means something like in the past 10 years - 500,000 people in the UK have died from obesity. Covid is currently on track for less deaths than obesity this year. Are we proposing the banning of fatties from McD ? Are we banning fatties from sweet and ice cream shops ?Are we forcing fatties to stay home ? and force salad down their throats ? No. course not. Yet, here we are destroying the economy for less death than a chosen lifestyle of obesity. 

You obviously did not read my previous thread regarding the projected numbers of deaths from C19 without lock-down. Anything from 7 million to 40 million.

Are those numbers big enough for you to be worried?

[RichardColeman]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Absolute, unadulterated nonsense. Talking about 'people died from other reasons other than covid' is completely irrelevant.We know people die from other causes (as they do every year) 

Absolute unadulterated nonsense ? Really ? Why not simply look at my graph showing up to 400% EXTRA non-related covid deaths than from covid - this is published in the UK. The question is would they (the extra non related covid deaths) have died without lockdown ? If you would like to explain the EXTRA 400% more non-covid deaths during lockdown in the uk than covid ones , please feel free to do so, I would like to hear your reasoning  as to why there was a rise in non covid deaths way above the 5 year average aside from covid ones. 

[RichardColeman]

5 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You obviously did not read my previous thread regarding the projected numbers of deaths from C19 without lock-down. Anything from 7 million to 40 million.

Are those numbers big enough for you to be worried?

And have I suggested no lockdown ? No, I suggest a more targeted approach than the total nonsense lockdown of the entire economy.

 

I rent my house out to someone. During the first lockdown , his ex wife and kids moved in , so that her father could safely be on his own as they both worked. THAT is the kind of thing that needs to happen. Hands Face Space, should be Isolate, Protect, support, 

Edited November 2, 2020 by RichardColeman

[johnnybangkok]

3 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Absolute unadulterated nonsense ? Really ? Why not simply look at my graph showing up to 400% EXTRA non-related covid deaths than from covid - this is published in the UK. The question is would they (the extra non related covid deaths) have died without lockdown ? If you would like to explain the EXTRA 400% more non-covid deaths during lockdown in the uk than covid ones , please feel free to do so, I would like to hear your reasoning  as to why there was a rise in non covid deaths way above the 5 year average aside from covid ones. 

First your 400% figure is not accurate and yes I can excplain it with a simple Google search. 

 

'There is not enough evidence to suggest the other theories investigated can explain much of the increase in non-COVID-19 death registrations; these other explanations were reduced hospital capacity and increases in deaths caused by stress-related conditions.

A full analysis of non-COVID-19 excess deaths will only be possible in several months' time when longer-term effects and additional data, both death registrations and other sources, can be considered.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/analysisofdeathregistrationsnotinvolvingcoronaviruscovid19englandandwales28december2019to1may2020/technicalannex