TripAdvisor slaps warning on Thailand's 'Sea View Resort & Spa' review page

[CorpusChristie]

21 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Right lets talk facts and they have all been posted endlessly, can post em but I cannot help you understand...

 

What do we know to be fact, a person put four negative reviews on a website, thin skinned person throws a hissy fit and gets guest jailed under a draconian control law

 

   He didnt get jailed , he didnt get any punishment for posting the reviews , he only got held in custody because he didnt pay his bail money

[mark131v]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

   He didnt get jailed , he didnt get any punishment for posting the reviews , he only got held in custody because he didnt pay his bail money

Ahh back to pigeon chess again 

 

Numerous posters myself included have totally destroyed that statement multiple times, I can't be arsed doing it again

 

So is that your fact's then?

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Ahh back to pigeon chess again 

 

Numerous posters myself included have totally destroyed that statement multiple times, I can't be arsed doing it again

 

So is that your fact's then?

 

  Yes that is a fact , he didnt get jailed because of" jailed under a draconian control law" , the law set him free .

   He did get arrested because of the defamation law , but he didnt receive any punishment and he walked away with no fine , jailtime  or anything .

   

[mark131v]

Some more facts:

 

The hotel released a statement when this story went viral as an attempt at damage limitation

 

They stated there were 3 reasons why they were forced to take the action they did, the full statement and record of the reviews are here:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZCwyULmkLpZ7y5nT5wsaX0mn8waPd4H/view

 

Their point 1:

 

He left fabricated stories on his reviews on TripAdvisor and Google that included xenophobic connotations, accusations of slavery and even comments that could mislead readers to associate our property with the Coronavirus.

 

No he expressed an opinion, whether that is right or wrong is impossible to prove, where they fabricated again impossible to say. This review had been removed TA until aforementioned thin skinned person released it as part of their damage limitation exercise. Right or wrong, no idea ill thought out on both sides certainly, reason to jail a guest absolutely not, ability to cause massive problems in the long term absolutely!!

 

Question: is mentioning a person's nationality racist, nope it is stating a fact and has not been used in a derogatory way

 

Question: is saying 'avoid like the plague' the same as 'avoid like coronavirus' I think it is and you would need to be very dim to link that as implying the hotel had coronavirus

 

Question: if Trip Advisor have already removed this why would you want to re release if you are worried about your reputation

 

Point 2:

 

He had been posting reviews roughly 1-2 weeks apart with obvious defamatory intentions. We chose to file a complaint to serve as a deterrent, as we understood he may continue to write negative reviews week after week for the foreseeable future.

 

Nope he wrote four review's, one was removed and 2 and 3 where exactly the same, 4 was a re-hash of 2 and 3 and arguably they could have been his true experience. I know I have experience of seeing all he has mentioned in his reviews multiple times whilst staying in hotels. Vindictive and stupid to repeat it probably, reason to go to jail absolutely not, scope to cause massive problems to the hotel, well we already know the answer to that!!!

 

Point 3:

 

Despite our multiple efforts to contact him to resolve this in an amicable way for well over a month, he chose to ignore us completely. He only replied to our emails, messages on review sites, etc. once he had been notified of our complaint by the authorities.

 

What they have done is also known as intimidation, it's classic 'do as I say or I will hurt you!!!' they know what they are doing and right or wrong it's a poor business decision. The fallout from this has caused the entire tourism industry damage and massive negative PR to Thailand 

 

In conclusion was the American a massive knob for not paying the corkage fee and his subsequent action's, yep he was in my opinion, was the hotel thin skinned, vindictive  and stupid was their lack of foresight biblical absolutely

 

Will it cause future problems for the hotel and Thailand in general? Already has they have by their pride caused a black mark over themselves and tourism in general, it will cost them and Thailand right in the pocket, the loss of face is epic!!!

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by mark131v

[alecranb]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I can.... Italy - Journalist can be jailed for defamation for up to 6 years. 

The Caribbean jail those found guilt of defamation. 

 

The Key issue with Thailands defamation laws is not the penalties, but the flawed nature of the law itself i.e. the intention to defame a third party whether comments can be proven or not. 

 

 

A lot of countries the defamation law is crime law with jail involved

In Europe, the only one that have in civil law are:

Bosnia

Ireland

UK

Norway

Romania

Serbia

All the other have criminal law

 

US is normally a civil law, but depends of each State

 

for example:

In South Korea, both true and false statements can be considered defamation. Any statement made with the intention to harm another person's reputation can be considered illegal, and those charged may face fines and/or imprisonment of up to seven years

 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Yes that is a fact , he didnt get jailed because of" jailed under a draconian control law" , the law set him free .

   He did get arrested because of the defamation law , but he didnt receive any punishment and he walked away with no fine , jailtime  or anything .

   

 

I would certainly feel differently had I spent a night or two for anything I write on a public forum or review site. Regardless of the semantics, the American was unable to leave a locked place of detention because defamation charges were filed against him (and he wouldn’t / couldn’t file bail). That in itself is outrageous and highlights a highly flawed law.

 

I would most definitely consider two nights in a jail cell as punishment, even an hour is punishment - the idea that someone spent any time at all in a police station for leaving a negative and spiteful trip advisor review (4 of them) is appalling. 

 

Everyone agree’s the American probably is probably a d!<k, but being a d!<k is not a crime, even in civilised nations, and thats the issue here: that someone can spend any time at all detained due to a defamation accusation is not civilised, the law in this case is clearly not civilised. 

 

The hotel have definitely shot themselves in the foot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brollox]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:12 PM, alyx said:

They are not defaming ...they are merely reporting the fact that one guest was arrested and threatened with jail sentence up to two years for comments he made. This is not allegedly...it is advertised by the hotel itself.

Really? Well if you read the defamation law ANY action that can bring a business into disrepute is defaming. Let alone supporting an untruth.

[alyx]

1 minute ago, Brollox said:

Really? Well if you read the defamation law ANY action that can bring a business into disrepute is defaming. Let alone supporting an untruth.

Well I don’t read law but if that is so ...then Trip Advisor will feel the full wrath of this law

[Brollox]

On 11/14/2020 at 12:07 PM, Buba Ho Tep said:

That's a possibility however TripAdvisor isn't some expat teacher living in Thailand who is easy to slap around.  TripAdvisor is a successful corporate entity with deep pockets, lawyers, and a social media platform of their own.  If a sole entity like Seaview used the courts with the explicit or implicit approval of ministries like the TAT then Thailand wouldn't have to worry about the government's reaction to Covid ruining the tourism industry.  Try to toss a TripAdvisor exec into jail or take other actions to censor their platform in Thailand and they'd have the attention of the global main-stream media and every other travel site which publishes hotel and trip reviews.
Look at the global press coverage of Barnes incarceration.  Now multiply that by 100.

I think Tripadvisors success is on the wain actually, and I wouldn't be surpised if they no longer exist a few years from now. Having deep pockets is one thing. Knowing the difference between right and wrong entirely another. In this case the hotel was in the right, the complainent AND Tripadvisor where both in the wrong.

[Brollox]

1 minute ago, alyx said:

Well I don’t read law but if that is so ...then Trip Advisor will feel the full wrath of this law

If only. My only real point is trhat I have personally expeirenced the injustice of TripAdvisor, as have a lot of other business owners. If you in hospitality of any kind you know you run the risk of being unfairly slighted on social media. That goes with the territory, but hopefully one day soon these spaces will become better regulated to protect the little man. Something TripAdvisor might claim to do, but they are also responsible for destroying businesses and jobs with inaccurate and unfair actions.

[alyx]

4 minutes ago, Brollox said:

If only. My only real point is trhat I have personally expeirenced the injustice of TripAdvisor, as have a lot of other business owners. If you in hospitality of any kind you know you run the risk of being unfairly slighted on social media. That goes with the territory, but hopefully one day soon these spaces will become better regulated to protect the little man. Something TripAdvisor might claim to do, but they are also responsible for destroying businesses and jobs with inaccurate and unfair actions.

Indirectly, yes, I agree and I am sorry for what happened to you ( and others) if you have been wronged.

Now, the problem is that they reported a fact: someone was arrested at the request of a hotel for his comments.

as much as I understand that nobody is happy to be called names, when unjustified, the reaction of the hotel was out of place.

they started a game which they thought was a win win situation and they end up being the real loser. The fact is there.

[Mr Meeseeks]

12 minutes ago, Brollox said:

I think Tripadvisors success is on the wain actually, and I wouldn't be surpised if they no longer exist a few years from now. Having deep pockets is one thing. Knowing the difference between right and wrong entirely another. In this case the hotel was in the right, the complainent AND Tripadvisor where both in the wrong.

In your opinion and sounds like wishful thinking on your behalf.

 

However I contest that the hotel were in the wrong for initially pressing criminal charges on the American idiot that wrote the reviews. It could have been dealt with in another way. 

 

The American did not demonstrably cause any damage to the hotel's business. A few negative reviews and idiotic comments online would not have even registered. 

 

By taking the course of action to criminally prosecute, they have not only damaged their own business, but brought Thailand's criminal defamation laws and tourism industry into the spotlight, and perhaps even damaged the reputation of the Thai tourist industry as a result. 

 

Another case of Thai bullying that has backfired. 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the inflammatory replies have been removed. 

[Brollox]

10 minutes ago, alyx said:

Indirectly, yes, I agree and I am sorry for what happened to you ( and others) if you have been wronged.

Now, the problem is that they reported a fact: someone was arrested at the request of a hotel for his comments.

as much as I understand that nobody is happy to be called names, when unjustified, the reaction of the hotel was out of place.

they started a game which they thought was a win win situation and they end up being the real loser. The fact is there.

They may have reported the fact, but really all they are exposing then is the law in this country. If it was the hotels right to take this matter up with the law, who is TripAdvisor to somehow defame them for doing so? Indeed who is TripAdvisor at all to be getting involved in another businesses disputes? Especially when they are NOT the law, and it's also a FACT that they NEVER have all the facts. After all they are not there. This is my issue with TripAdvisor, and a lot of others are catching on to the FACT that TripAdvisor wants to be an authority on something they really have no juristication over. Other peoples businesses, and other peoples disputes. In effect they a just a busy body stirring up s**t. How can anyone have this as a useful go to reference for anything?

[Brollox]

11 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

In your opinion and sounds like wishful thinking on your behalf.

 

However I contest that the hotel were in the wrong for initially pressing criminal charges on the American idiot that wrote the reviews. It could have been dealt with in another way. 

 

The American did not demonstrably cause any damage to the hotel's business. A few negative reviews and idiotic comments online would not have even registered. 

 

By taking the course of action to criminally prosecute, they have not only damaged their own business, but brought Thailand's criminal defamation laws and tourism industry into the spotlight, and perhaps even damaged the reputation of the Thai tourist industry as a result. 

 

Another case of Thai bullying that has backfired. 

In your opinion. Personally I might book this hotel and go and have a pleasant weekend and we can exchnage stories of <deleted>ty customers.

[Mr Meeseeks]

15 minutes ago, Brollox said:

In your opinion. Personally I might book this hotel and go and have a pleasant weekend and we can exchnage stories of <deleted>ty customers.

Evidently the hotel got it wrong; the negative media coverage and the TripAdvisor warning are the deserved outcome. Perhaps ultimately closure and bankruptcy to follow? Time will tell. 

 

As you are in the same industry and have obviously learned absolutely nothing from the learned outcomes of this episode, perhaps you are not in a position to be owning or managing in the hospitality industry and should be thinking on a career change? Just a thought, and not meant to cause you offence.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Mr Meeseeks

[Eindhoven]

22 minutes ago, Brollox said:

In your opinion. Personally I might book this hotel and go and have a pleasant weekend and we can exchnage stories of <deleted>ty customers.

 

I'm sure that you won't....

[Brollox]

13 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Evidently the hotel got it wrong; the negative media coverage and the TripAdvisor warning are the deserved outcome. Perhaps ultimately closure and bankruptcy to follow? Time will tell. 

 

As you are in the same industry and have obviously learned absolutely nothing from the learned outcomes of this episode, perhaps you are not in a position to be owning or managing in the hospitality industry and should be thinking on a career change? Just a thought, and not meant to cause you offence.

I dont take offence from anyone who makes comments about people they don't know, nor should you. However i do know right from wrong. We can debate the rights and wrongs of Thai law all day long. We can even debate the rights and wrongs of the actions of this particular hotel. However what there is no debate about, is that the initial complaint was a lie. Forget what industry anyone is in, forget whether or not someone "gets what they deserve", clearly that is not true and we all know life aint fair. Morally speaking i would never support a liar. It is sad then if a liar gets called out and it destroys the messengers business, but so be it.

[Brollox]

13 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

I'm sure that you won't....

Why not? I have no issue with anything they have done. I admire them for understanding the law and sticking up for themselves in the face of deceitful reviews. I might have dealt with it differently and cowered down in the face of social media bullies but that doesnt stop me respecting their strong stance.

[Sujo]

They had someone put n jail for a review. That is morally and ethically wrong and they deserve the TA warning for doing so.

[Eindhoven]

5 minutes ago, Brollox said:

Why not? I have no issue with anything they have done. I admire them for understanding the law and sticking up for themselves in the face of deceitful reviews. I might have dealt with it differently and cowered down in the face of social media bullies but that doesnt stop me respecting their strong stance.

 

So you won't then?

[Brollox]

41 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

So you won't then?

Why not?

[Eindhoven]

5 minutes ago, Brollox said:

Why not?

 

Ask yourself why not. I just know that you won't actually book and stay there and that your statement was just rhetoric.

 

Nevertheless, understand that you feel that you have been unfairly treated. I have no dog in the fight.

[Brollox]

1 minute ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Ask yourself why not. I just know that you won't actually book and stay there and that your statement was just rhetoric.

 

Nevertheless, understand that you feel that you have been unfairly treated. I have no dog in the fight.

I have. I see no reason why I would not frequent this establishment. 

[Brollox]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

They had someone put n jail for a review. That is morally and ethically wrong and they deserve the TA warning for doing so.

The reviewer was trying to damage someones livelihood with an untruth. People will lose their jobs becuase it. I reckon that's worth a jail sentence. 

[mark131v]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:50 PM, Brollox said:

I dont take offence from anyone who makes comments about people they don't know, nor should you. However i do know right from wrong. We can debate the rights and wrongs of Thai law all day long. We can even debate the rights and wrongs of the actions of this particular hotel. However what there is no debate about, is that the initial complaint was a lie. Forget what industry anyone is in, forget whether or not someone "gets what they deserve", clearly that is not true and we all know life aint fair. Morally speaking i would never support a liar. It is sad then if a liar gets called out and it destroys the messengers business, but so be it.

 

Right from wrong, is it right for yourself as an hospitality provider to get an ex paying customer jailed for his opinion, is it wrong for a person to be jailed for speaking their opinion, apparently world opinion would favour the latter

 

How do you know it was a lie, are you psychic, do you have crystal balls, where you there or is that just YOUR opinion, should you be jailed for stating your opinion??

 

I have seen bullying bosses and miserable useless staff on numerous occasions whilst staying at Thai hotels, I have also advised other people not to stay there as there are better options, should I be jailed??

 

[mark131v]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:59 PM, Brollox said:

Why not? I have no issue with anything they have done. I admire them for understanding the law and sticking up for themselves in the face of deceitful reviews. I might have dealt with it differently and cowered down in the face of social media bullies but that doesnt stop me respecting their strong stance.

 

Blimey, you admire them for putting their business in the <deleted>ter for 3 reviews that could all have been an honest opinion, bloody hell that's scary, where you see strong stance I think most people see stupid stance...

[mark131v]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:07 PM, Brollox said:

The reviewer was trying to damage someones livelihood with an untruth. People will lose their jobs becuase it. I reckon that's worth a jail sentence. 

 

No he was stating an opinion and there is only one person on the planet who knows if it's a lie and that's Barnes

 

You don't know the facts you only have an opinion and that is a fact!!

[alyx]

3 hours ago, Brollox said:

They may have reported the fact, but really all they are exposing then is the law in this country. If it was the hotels right to take this matter up with the law, who is TripAdvisor to somehow defame them for doing so? Indeed who is TripAdvisor at all to be getting involved in another businesses disputes? Especially when they are NOT the law, and it's also a FACT that they NEVER have all the facts. After all they are not there. This is my issue with TripAdvisor, and a lot of others are catching on to the FACT that TripAdvisor wants to be an authority on something they really have no juristication over. Other peoples businesses, and other peoples disputes. In effect they a just a busy body stirring up s**t. How can anyone have this as a useful go to reference for anything?

It is exactly what I have been writing all along: it is the right of the hotel, under law, to have some guest arrested for their comments. Although this is the law and that can be used by any hospitality group, only one among tens of thousands of hotels, guest houses etc... has used it ( or at least has been advertised, by themselves incidentally, as maybe, other cases went under the radar): therefore, why should TA slams all of Thailand ?  After all, as you have mentioned, TA has no jurisdiction over Thailand nor over any countries. 

I might add that even if you are objective, I guess that the fact that you have an issue with TA is quite an important factor when you are posting. I, for one, have no biff with either actors of this unfortunate event and, I am not siding at all but my opinion is that the hotel started something it could not control and TA is counting the points.

[alyx]

21 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   He didnt get jailed , he didnt get any punishment for posting the reviews , he only got held in custody because he didnt pay his bail money

Dear CC , we have been through a whole discussion and the problem is that you define jail by being judged or pending judgment where I define jail from the time when someone has been arrested and thrown in a jail, how much  VIP the cell is, not saying it was,  doesn't make any difference.