Return to U.K. for operation on NHS

[Neeranam]

23 minutes ago, maingmoom said:

Both were carried out at City hospital Pattaya, and each cost 280,000 baht.

Is that a government hospital, seems expensive?

 

A friend recently got a hip replacement done in Khon Kaen for 70,000 baht.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Neeranam

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/15/2020 at 3:12 AM, fangless said:

Pease see my post above yours' regarding NHS rules re "non-residents".

 

It should, on the other hand, be noted that a large number of GP's and NHS staff refuse to "act as customs officials" and turn a blind eye to the rules.

I used to work at Ealing hospital theatres. We got a few that were obviously not resident (  in our opinion ), but were not allowed to ask them if entitled to NHS treatment. I am happy that the rip off has been curtailed. None of us would have hesitated to decline their surgery had they been proven to be not entitled, given they were preventing a person entitled to surgery to have it sooner.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Is that a government hospital, seems expensive?

If you knew what was involved with knee surgery you might think otherwise.

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you knew what was involved with knee surgery you might think otherwise.

My mother got one last year and is getting another done soon. My sister is a physiotherapist and described it to me pretty well. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Neeranam said:

My mother got one last year and is getting another done soon. My sister is a physiotherapist and described it to me pretty well. 

Fair enough, but she wasn't awake in the theatre while the operation was being done. You might be surprised how many people are directly involved and the many not in the room. The man that controls the air supply to the room and the staff that collect the used instruments and the man that puts the contaminated material in the incinerator and the girls that clean and sterilise and pack the instruments and the nurses in recovery and the nurses on the ward, and your sister and the hospital management and the canteen staff and the cleaning staff of the theatre and the ward, and the manufacturers of the joint replacement and the insurance company, and the delivery guys and the people that measure her knee before the op, and the kitchens that fed her on the ward and the pharmacists and the people that deliver the medications and the storemen and deliverymen for the IV fluids and the dressings ( and the manufacturers of the dressings ) and the special hand soap that the scrub staff use to prevent infection, and the gloves and the masks and the gowns and the special overshoes if needed,  and for bone surgery probably eye shields and perhaps even helmets for the surgeons. Even the wheelchairs have to be paid for and the crutches, and of course the electricity for the lifts and the maintenance staff that fix the lift, and the coffee machine in the staff tea room etc etc etc . They all have to be paid, the equipment has to be bought, delivered, stored and checked, the anaesthetic gas, the disposable endotracheal tube, the patient gown, the drapes used during surgery, the computer and the computer staff etc etc etc. Costs a lot for all the bits that a patient never sees, and these days most of it is disposable, and the insurance is very expensive. Even the water probably costs a lot, seeing as how much of it gets used.

????

[thaibeachlovers]

^^ Forgot about the X ray department and the X ray consultant and technicians. Couldn't do the op without them.

[superal]

52 minutes ago, polpott said:

All you need to do is claim that you are returning to take up permanent residency. Impossible to prove/disprove.

Interesting , do you have a link to refer to ?

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fair enough, but she wasn't awake in the theatre while the operation was being done. You might be surprised how many people are directly involved and the many not in the room. The man that controls the air supply to the room and the staff that collect the used instruments and the man that puts the contaminated material in the incinerator and the girls that clean and sterilise and pack the instruments and the nurses in recovery and the nurses on the ward, and your sister and the hospital management and the canteen staff and the cleaning staff of the theatre and the ward, and the manufacturers of the joint replacement and the insurance company, and the delivery guys and the people that measure her knee before the op, and the kitchens that fed her on the ward and the pharmacists and the people that deliver the medications and the storemen and deliverymen for the IV fluids and the dressings ( and the manufacturers of the dressings ) and the special hand soap that the scrub staff use to prevent infection, and the gloves and the masks and the gowns and the special overshoes if needed,  and for bone surgery probably eye shields and perhaps even helmets for the surgeons. Even the wheelchairs have to be paid for and the crutches, and of course the electricity for the lifts and the maintenance staff that fix the lift, and the coffee machine in the staff tea room etc etc etc . They all have to be paid, the equipment has to be bought, delivered, stored and checked, the anaesthetic gas, the disposable endotracheal tube, the patient gown, the drapes used during surgery, the computer and the computer staff etc etc etc. Costs a lot for all the bits that a patient never sees, and these days most of it is disposable, and the insurance is very expensive. Even the water probably costs a lot, seeing as how much of it gets used.

????

Wow, nice description!

Maybe I shouldn't be running 25 km a day or I could need one or two in a few years.

My question was if Pattaya city was government or not. If it is a private hospital, fair enough, sounds like a fair price.  I have heard that Pattaya rips of tourists/foreigners. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, superal said:

Interesting , do you have a link to refer to ?

You must live there for 26 weeks before being classed as a resident. Well this is what it was a few years ago. 

My 17 yo daughter can't go to a Scottish university for free, despite being Scottish. She has been quoted fees as a foreign student. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Neeranam

[thaibeachlovers]

41 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Is that a government hospital, seems expensive?

 

A friend recently got a hip replacement done in Khon Kaen for 70,000 baht.

Hip replacements are easy to do and so many done the components would get the benefit of mass production. Knees are way more complex and much less common than hip replacements.

Hips are so common because old ladies get weak bones after menopause and just falling over can break their hip. When I worked on an orthopedic ward we got loads of them through the ward, but hardly any knees.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Wow, nice description!

Maybe I shouldn't be running 25 km a day or I could need one or two in a few years.

My question was if Pattaya city was government or not. If it is a private hospital, fair enough, sounds like a fair price.  I have heard that Pattaya rips of tourists/foreigners. 

 

 

I was admitted for a couple of nights in Lamphun private hospital for bronchitis. I had insurance from a Thai company , but if I had to pay for it myself it would have cost thousands more. Yes, IMO a rip off.

 

I also had an operation for a broken hand after my Thai insurance ended and had to pay for it myself, and get the money back from my travel insurance, but I never checked on a price difference for that, so can't say.

Edited November 16, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[fangless]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Many thanks for the link and info but that was a complicated read . Did you deduce how long a UK resident can be out of the UK and still be allowed to use the NHS ?    Just because retaining a UK property does not mean compliance to be a UK resident , according to the Guidance Link .

Also , if  living in Thailand for some time where you have no status or official residency and then could have lost your UK residency because of absence from the UK , you may have no nationality or country of residence ?

It is very much a "case by case" basis.  I suggest you take a lot of the claims posted earlier giving different lengths of stay/criterea with a pinch of salt

It is perfectly possible to be classified as ordinarily resident  from the day of arrival, when it is clear that that person has, upon arrival, taken up settled residence. In each case, it is for the relevant body to decide whether the criteria within the ordinary residence description are met, this implies that the rules haven't changed for a British Expat returning to the UK to take up residence, and can satisfy the NHS Trust, is exempt from charging from day one. 

A tool has also been developed to assist them in considering whether an individual is properly settled in the UK in order to establish ordinary residence. It can be found as part of the Overseas Visitor Manager (OVM) toolbox available via this link: Ordinary_residence_tool    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Many thanks for the link and info but that was a complicated read . Did you deduce how long a UK resident can be out of the UK and still be allowed to use the NHS ?    Just because retaining a UK property does not mean compliance to be a UK resident , according to the Guidance Link .

Also , if  living in Thailand for some time where you have no status or official residency and then could have lost your UK residency because of absence from the UK , you may have no nationality or country of residence ?

 

  Just go and see you G.P. and dont mention you have been abroad , not that they will ask .

  And if you see a filipino nurse , dont go "all Pattaya " on her , you may get arrested 

[bert bloggs]

just keep a uk address ,sorted

[superal]

28 minutes ago, fangless said:

It is very much a "case by case" basis.  I suggest you take a lot of the claims posted earlier giving different lengths of stay/criterea with a pinch of salt

It is perfectly possible to be classified as ordinarily resident  from the day of arrival, when it is clear that that person has, upon arrival, taken up settled residence. In each case, it is for the relevant body to decide whether the criteria within the ordinary residence description are met, this implies that the rules haven't changed for a British Expat returning to the UK to take up residence, and can satisfy the NHS Trust, is exempt from charging from day one. 

A tool has also been developed to assist them in considering whether an individual is properly settled in the UK in order to establish ordinary residence. It can be found as part of the Overseas Visitor Manager (OVM) toolbox available via this link: Ordinary_residence_tool    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

I read the link and much of it is ambiguous and open to interpretation and I have pasted below the final paragraphs

 

Temporary or occasional absences from the UK will not prevent a person from being ordinarily resident, including extended or regular periods of travel for pleasure. Travel for UK based business or employment will also not prevent a person being ordinarily resident. Finite periods of volunteering, missionary work or study abroad while the person remains a UK resident will not prevent a person being ordinarily resident.

 

Many thanks for your input

[CorpusChristie]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:41 PM, fangless said:

Not quite that simple!!!!

 

Registering with a GP

When you have found a practice you like, you'll have to formally register with it as an NHS patient by submitting a registration form to them.

The GMS1 registration form (PDF, 156kb) is available at the practice, or you can download it from GOV.UK.

Forms may vary slightly, and some practices use their own version.

When you have completed and returned the form, NHS England will transfer your medical records to your new practice and write to you to confirm your registration as a patient with that practice.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/gps/how-to-register-with-a-gp-practice/

 

 

 

 

 

   Yes, that is just paperwork that anyone can do . 

I was talking about the things you need , all you need is to show evidence of having a UK address and give them a urine sample , that really is talking the <deleted>

[Changoverandout]

Thanks for the input but it seems no one on here has any personal experience.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

Thanks for the input but it seems no one on here has any personal experience.

 

    What more info do you need ?

By the time you've waited a year or two for the surgery , you would have passed any time frame rules 

[Chris.B]

On 11/15/2020 at 1:18 PM, hotchilli said:

Any idea on the cost of a hernia operation here in Thailand, regular government hospital I'm not bothered about a fancy private one in BKK... also is the procedure open surgery or otherwise?

A while back (early 2019), I was quoted 40,000 THB for open surgery. For Laparoscopy, under a 100,000 THB. I guess a private room would be extra.

[Changoverandout]

26 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

    What more info do you need ?

By the time you've waited a year or two for the surgery , you would have passed any time frame rules 

I’ll be staying in a different area to where I’m registered but will ask their opinion anyway.

If Covid has subsided by June/July i’ll return and find out what the waiting time is.

[Changoverandout]

4 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

A while back (early 2019), I was quoted 40,000 THB for open surgery. For Laparoscopy, under a 100,000 THB. I guess a private room would be extra.

 

I had one 2 years ago and had I paid it would have been 40,000 but AIA insurance paid.

[hotchilli]

11 hours ago, Changoverandout said:

 

I had one 2 years ago and had I paid it would have been 40,000 but AIA insurance paid.

Thanks, I have an AiA policy annual premium 45,000 but any surgery is capped at 36,000

as is a daily room fee & any other extras such as doctors visits, etc.... I was wondering how much I would have to cough up to cover the balance.

[theoldgit]

The full guidance on NHS charging, happy reading

 

Main_Guidance_post_24_August_2020_V2.pdf

[bert bloggs]

15 hours ago, Changoverandout said:

Thanks for the input but it seems no one on here has any personal experience.

A friend recently returned(pre covid) he has a Uk address and a doctor,saw a specialist privatly re hip replacement,then got a gospital appointment for some months in the future ,flew back here and a few days before the operation flew back to uk and had it . the thing is he has a Uk address a ni no and a local doctor ,so who would question him>?

now in these covid times i would say forget it ,i will soon be having an operation here in a govt hospital ,or i to would have done the same as him.

[Changoverandout]

My previous surgery replied saying I would be eligible for free NHS operation but at the moment waiting time is 3-9 months.

[superal]

12 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

My previous surgery replied saying I would be eligible for free NHS operation but at the moment waiting time is 3-9 months.

and soon will be 1 year for hip, cataracts etc but if you want to pay the NHS you can go to the front of the queue

 

e.g. cataract consultation within 2 weeks ,  operation another 2 weeks , second eye 3 months later £2000 per eye

[Changoverandout]

7 minutes ago, superal said:

and soon will be 1 year for hip, cataracts etc but if you want to pay the NHS you can go to the front of the queue

 

e.g. cataract consultation within 2 weeks ,  operation another 2 weeks , second eye 3 months later £2000 per eye

As I’ve waited this long and not in constant pain I can wait another year.

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, superal said:

and soon will be 1 year for hip, cataracts etc but if you want to pay the NHS you can go to the front of the queue

 

e.g. cataract consultation within 2 weeks ,  operation another 2 weeks , second eye 3 months later £2000 per eye

far cheaper to get a cataract operation hereeven private is about 1200 pounds ,i am under Queen Sirakit ,when they do mine it will be about600 pounds.,in fact if i fly to Roiet i can get it done for 10,000 baht ,through family

[evadgib]

23 hours ago, Changoverandout said:

Thanks for the input but it seems no one on here has any personal experience.

A friend had both knees replaced in UK a year or so after returning to UK & before this covid lark kicked in.

Others have had knees/hips/cataracts done here in LoS at a reasonable price which would probably be my preferred option in the current climate.

HTH

Edited November 17, 2020 by evadgib

[Mike Teavee]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:59 AM, Changoverandout said:

As I’ve waited this long and not in constant pain I can wait another year.

Are you going to wait it out in Thailand or the UK? Only I would imagine that there would be an initial physical examination by your GP followed by a referral to a specialist who would get your name added to the waiting list & then regular checkups until you have the operation. 
 

Also, I don't know how common it is but when my mum was on the waiting list for her hip replacement, she was only ever given a rough timeline of how long she needed to wait & after this time had past was told that it might be next month, next month etc... (Each time she visited her GP to find out) until eventually she was given a couple of days notice before going in, if she hadn't have been available for this slot then her name would have gone back on to the waiting list. 

 

Obviously not a problem if you're planning to relocate to the UK for some time but if your plan is to do it via regular trips to the UK then it's going to get very expensive