The sad state of Thai labour in the countryside

[PETERTHEEATER]

4 hours ago, KC 71 said:

Blimey !

Don't blind yourself, guide dogs are scarce.....

[473geo]

47 minutes ago, bodga said:

and I will pay 500 a  day and they still arent interested.

Gotta understand the logic

 

For you 1 person (foreman) works for you family have 500 a day, 2 at home twiddling their thumbs, you get the work of 1 person

 

For me 3 people work, (foreman + 2 labourers) family have 1000 baht a day, nobody at home twiddling thumbs, work completed quicker ready to take on additional work.

 

 

[samsensam]

 

i don't get all the negativity about this topic, it's pretty much common sense; as a country's economy becomes less agriculturally based and more manufacturing work is available the population are of course going to move away from the physically demanding work to more secure, less physically demanding jobs, with probably better conditions and usually better paid.

 

in europe, australia, the us who does the majority of the hard physical agricultural work? not the local population.

 

and now even the migrant labour force is moving in this direction.

 

there probably needs to be an agricultural revolution in thailand where small farm holdings become a thing of the past and larger farms replace them making use of modern technology, machinery and economies of scale as well as farmers who have studied and qualified in agriculture.

 

 

[bodga]

1 hour ago, spiekerjozef said:

If you don't even wanna do it yourself, who can blame them...

I  have done it myself and at the age of some of them working  here it would be much easier for them. Ive dug ditches  laid concrete built 3   houses put   irrigation in etc at 57 I dont want the day to day boring stuff of watering trees.

[BlueT84]

Over the years I have gone through 20-30 men. I now have 4 good men working for me. They show up everyday on time and do hard work.

 

I have found half days work best. This gives them time to tend to their own fields in the afternoon. I pay them 200 baht, no lunch and free coffee and vitamins in the morning.

 

i do not hire any thais under the age of 35. As i find anyone under that age is useless here. Always some excuse of why they were late, or could not make it.

 

as for female staff. Christ! I have been able to find 2 descent ones in 7 years. Out of 40 up. The reasons are endless. But out here the women are lazy as <deleted>. All happily waiting to free load from their daughters children. Using them as leverage to get their month money. 
 

thank the lucky stars i have one good women staff left. She shows up, does a great job, doesnt need to have her hand held and works above and beyond the call of duty(babysitting in the off hours).

 

main problem out here is i live in a welfare area. Government land with government subsidies.

[bodga]

22 minutes ago, samsensam said:

more manufacturing work is available

i think the word is "was" available, many being laid  off especially in  tourism and factories going to  Vietnam etc

[jak2002003]

4 hours ago, bodga said:

Well even just to take care of the garden area they arent interested in, garden is 1  acre  2.5  rai and is  low maintenance, everything on sprinklers, Fruit is 12  rai, we  may  just abandon growing the fruit completely, even when they get  offered 40%  of any profits they dont want it.

The main problem is they  just up an leave,  no warning often leaving us in a  real mess, have to cancel appointments even flights  sometimes.

Ive had enough of the attitude and lack of work ethic Ill sell get a condo by the sea and have a less stressful  life without having to think about staff beacsue no matter what you offer or  how  kind you are its  not appreciated.

I let the last  lot even use my pick up once every few  weeks, then they started using it weekly  then daily.........theyre all take take  take.

That is strange that they all 'up and leave' and are all lazy and do nothing and dont want to work on your land.

 

Are you sure the problem does not lie with the way you or your wife / family treat them?  

 

We had several Rai or orchards and mixed farm here many years and never had a problem.  If you are friendly with the people that work for you, treat them fair and with respect and you will likely get good results back.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by jak2002003

[Cake Monster]

3 hours ago, bodga said:

They want  money but  not the work on the land even when they have no  job.

I feel for your plight, I really do.

For Years I was a Proprietor of my own Engineering Business in the UK, and throughout the Years I was privvy to meeting, and Employing, what turned out to be wasters over the course of that time.

Now, after living in Thailand for the last 15 Years, I can honestly say that The Thai Wasters are in a completely different League.

I mean these people are Premier League Wasters. Not all of them, but a high percentage of them certainly are.

The deal vacancy for Thai workers is

As a Car Park Attendant at Wembley, on FA Cup Final Day Salaried at 60K Per Annum with free Bupa and a 4 bed House thrown in.

 

[bodga]

7 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Are you sure the problem does not lie with the way you or your wife / family treat them?  

no, many are lazy, some start ok then go off after a few  months to 20 months period, Ive let them use my pick up for free but then they started using it daily instead of maybe twice a month to see their family 40  miles away, they take advantage, they take  complete  offence about anything and go.

Wife asked them if they could stop having 4  hours for lunch......they left the next day, we told them 3  hours to avoid heat and of  course only in the hot  months ie feb march april may june etc the rest of the time 2  hours was  ok. Weve  taken them out for meals , taken them  on day trips to the sea, bought their kid a pet etc given them clothes a  washing machine and I mean GIVEN  not  here you can use this, as they were washing by hand etc and we had  a spare one, I said I would  build them a nice house and did, on my own as they have no building skill , laid  all the blocks  did  all the welding, oof  floors  electrics tiling throughout etc upvc windows 28m2 2  bed 1  kitchen as they have a 9 year old  girl. we  bought her a bicycle for her birthday 1  month after they arrived.penniless............. does the girl  look unhappy with us? on the day they left the Father wouldnt let her take the pet we bought her 18  months previous, said it didnt belong to her, she was in tears.....pathetic childlike  behaviour

[bodga]

20 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

and are all lazy

I didnt say they were all lazy although many are, often they start off great and slowly go bad

[AaronC76]

To the op, ask yourself if you would do the work for the wages you offer? If not then you have your answer, simple.

[473geo]

1 hour ago, samsensam said:

 

i don't get all the negativity about this topic, it's pretty much common sense; as a country's economy becomes less agriculturally based and more manufacturing work is available the population are of course going to move away from the physically demanding work to more secure, less physically demanding jobs, with probably better conditions and usually better paid.

 

in europe, australia, the us who does the majority of the hard physical agricultural work? not the local population.

 

and now even the migrant labour force is moving in this direction.

 

there probably needs to be an agricultural revolution in thailand where small farm holdings become a thing of the past and larger farms replace them making use of modern technology, machinery and economies of scale as well as farmers who have studied and qualified in agriculture.

 

 

You are looking to ruin the lives of many Thai with your thoughtless ideas - the self sufficiency model is in place to negate the need for high wages and taxes to support an expensive welfare system.

 

Forcing the rural population into the metropolis in order to facilitate larger more profitable farms would be a travesty. Quality of life surviving on a rural farm will surely be more healthy and enjoyable than poverty in a city.

Edited November 21, 2020 by 473geo

[bodga]

4 minutes ago, AaronC76 said:

To the op, ask yourself if you would do the work for the wages you offer? If not then you have your answer, simple.

Thats a ridiculous answer isnt it if you sit and think about it, they get paid above minimum wage, they accept the job, they know whats involved BEFORE they start, nobody forces them to do the job.

I have done many a job when I have had  none, many arrive with nothing and its easy to see why, they live hand to mouth.

[Lunchbob]

I tried this for 7 years and it was just like what you describe. Always had the impression from the labor they were doing me a favor. It's too hard even with the help.

[DUNROAMIN]

Morale of the story, give them inch and they'll take a mile.

[Cake Monster]

18 minutes ago, AaronC76 said:

To the op, ask yourself if you would do the work for the wages you offer? If not then you have your answer, simple.

Its not about the Money.

I have paid up to 1000 Baht per day, and still the workers start well, and then start A#$^&g about.

Its all about us being Farang.

We are viewed by Thais as having bottomless Pits of Money that they want, an the more you give the more they want.

Best not to treat them so good sometimes.

IE Cut the Coffee, M150 Breaks, work and smoke, work and talk Etc  Etc Etc, as Thais have a many ways as you can think of, and more, for not actually doing the job they are employed to do.

[Scouse123]

55 minutes ago, AaronC76 said:

To the op, ask yourself if you would do the work for the wages you offer? If not then you have your answer, simple.

 

That's a ridiculous comparison  from somebody who has obviously never employed people over here, placing western salaries and values on Far Eastern norms.

 

Of course wages are not on a par with the west, and neither are their qualifications, skillsets or expertise

[Scouse123]

38 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

 

IE Cut the Coffee, M150 Breaks, work and smoke, work and talk Etc  Etc Etc, as Thais have a many ways as you can think of, and more, for not actually doing the job they are employed to do.

 

You  created your own problem and set the bar and the standard.

 

You should never have allowed all the above in the first place, because they will just give you the answer that " They never asked for it, you offered "

 

You should also have employed a foreman separate from the workforce and kept yourself out of it. You cannot be friends with them! They have a different mentality.

 

Keeping your distance and paying on time and using manners is one thing,  but do not try to befriend them or  even seem to try to be a " good guy "  They don't get it!!!

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

i don't get all the negativity about this topic, it's pretty much common sense; as a country's economy becomes less agriculturally based and more manufacturing work is available the population are of course going to move away from the physically demanding work to more secure, less physically demanding jobs, with probably better conditions and usually better paid.

 

in europe, australia, the us who does the majority of the hard physical agricultural work? not the local population.

 

and now even the migrant labour force is moving in this direction.

 

there probably needs to be an agricultural revolution in thailand where small farm holdings become a thing of the past and larger farms replace them making use of modern technology, machinery and economies of scale as well as farmers who have studied and qualified in agriculture.

 

 

 

I agree with all the above but you omitted one thing. There is a generational thing going on right now amongst the younger ones and its worldwide.

 

They don't want to work the land, they don't want to work in the factories, they don't want to work in Bangkok, ( because they miss home!) They don't want to work in bars or restaurants,  BUT they do want money for social media,  going out, phones, motorbikes and all the rest that they feel they are entitled to.

[scubascuba3]

I'm sure 1,000 baht a day would motivate them

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, bodga said:

How odd is  that! but when they have a  day sick is that counted  too?

 

Law says 30 paid sick days a year. If two days off in a row they have to have a not from the doctor.

 

We would minimize the daily rate, but pay a daily meal allowance and fuel allowance, a monthly housing allowance and attendance bonus and an annual bonus. If they missed days, they lost their meal and fuel allowance and it negatively affected  their attendance and annual bonus. 

 

You do not have to pay severance or overtime on allowances and bonuses. Annual bonus was one to four months.

 

Don't pay daily 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I agree with all the above but you omitted one thing. There is a generational thing going on right now amongst the younger ones and its worldwide.

 

They don't want to work the land, they don't want to work in the factories, they don't want to work in Bangkok, ( because they miss home!) They don't want to work in bars or restaurants,  BUT they do want money for social media,  going out, phones, motorbikes and all the rest that they feel they are entitled to.

 

Generational? I never wanted to work.

[samsensam]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

You are looking to ruin the lives of many Thai with your thoughtless ideas - the self sufficiency model is in place to negate the need for high wages and taxes to support an expensive welfare system.

 

Forcing the rural population into the metropolis in order to facilitate larger more profitable farms would be a travesty. Quality of life surviving on a rural farm will surely be more healthy and enjoyable than poverty in a city.

 

not if the development of the country is well managed, it's not a simple one solution fits all, education for example needs to be improved, opportunities and support for the development of business and the economy needs to be provided centrally and locally, corruption needs to be addressed. failure to do this will result in the rural poor remaining the rural poor. if they are happy with that then fine. the uk benefits today from what started with the enclosures act in the 1500s, thailand is someway behind.

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

not if the development of the country is well managed, it's not a simple one solution fits all, education for example needs to be improved, opportunities and support for the development of business and the economy needs to be provided centrally and locally, corruption needs to be addressed. failure to do this will result in the rural poor remaining the rural poor. if they are happy with that then fine. the uk benefits today from what started with the enclosures act in the 1500s, thailand is someway behind.

 

Yes, so many example of well managed welfare states...

[geisha]

I’ve had quite a few friends over the years who’ve had good businesses, guest house near the beach, restaurants, usually run by good chefs de cuisine from Europe. Successful businesses that ended up being sold due to lazy staff, disappearing staff, and lack of staff. All of them said, never again. I don’t think it’s due to the owners being foreigners, I’ve also seen it in my regular haunts which are Thai run. On the other hand, I’ve friends in Cambodia and Bali who run successful businesses and have had the same staff for years. 

[Natai Beach]

The going rate for a decent worker in the south is 800 baht per day. You can find cheaper but they won’t be any good. Good workers are hard to find and will always command more than 500 per day.
 

Even Burmese males want more than 500 per day, or 60 baht per hour. Women are cheaper.
 

Issan is cheaper.

[Stevemercer]

37 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm sure 1,000 baht a day would motivate them

 

You would get a number of people applying, but they still won't stick around. The money is not really the issue. I agree that rural labour is a problem (and not unique to Thailand). It's a big problem in Australia.

 

Labour for seasonal work is ok because it is just a week or two, but regular work as offered by the OP can be problematic (particularly for a farang). 

 

You just have to hope you get an older local bloke who is happy to potter around all day, get the job done, and not start taking everything for granted. Anyone under 50, forget it.

 

As others have said, Thai people live and work for the day. It is hard for them to maintain motivation week after week chasing a monthly pay cheque. Obviously rural work is not a career choice. There has to be some inherent attraction in the job. Even perks (use of motorbikes, free board) aren't much of an attraction in a remote location with little social life.

 

Thai work best in social groups. Sometimes you might have to employ 2 to do the job of one. 

 

 

[SW Happy]

6 hours ago, bodga said:

Well even just to take care of the garden area they arent interested in, garden is 1  acre  2.5  rai and is  low maintenance, everything on sprinklers, Fruit is 12  rai, we  may  just abandon growing the fruit completely, even when they get  offered 40%  of any profits they dont want it.

The main problem is they  just up an leave,  no warning often leaving us in a  real mess, have to cancel appointments even flights  sometimes.

Ive had enough of the attitude and lack of work ethic Ill sell get a condo by the sea and have a less stressful  life without having to think about staff beacsue no matter what you offer or  how  kind you are its  not appreciated.

I let the last  lot even use my pick up once every few  weeks, then they started using it weekly  then daily.........theyre all take take  take.

Probably used it for drug running, thats why many don't want to work hard, Easier money to be made.

[peterpop]

My friend has a restaurant in Chiang Mai.  Recently he advertised for a waiter/ waitress.  250Bht work from 5pm to 9 pm 5 days.  Zero response

[Yellowtail]

35 minutes ago, geisha said:

I’ve had quite a few friends over the years who’ve had good businesses, guest house near the beach, restaurants, usually run by good chefs de cuisine from Europe. Successful businesses that ended up being sold due to lazy staff, disappearing staff, and lack of staff. All of them said, never again. I don’t think it’s due to the owners being foreigners, I’ve also seen it in my regular haunts which are Thai run. On the other hand, I’ve friends in Cambodia and Bali who run successful businesses and have had the same staff for years. 

 

Yet there is no shortage of successful businesses here, both Thai and foreign owned. Running a business and managing personnel is difficult. Many companies fail all over the world. Most new businesses in the US fail. There is nothing wrong with Thai labor, and I have found managing them not significantly different from managing workers in the US. That said, workers in the US are generally more productive, but they earn a lot more money as well. 

 

Most of the people that come here and start businesses did not sell their successful business in their home county to do so. There is a big difference between being a great chef, and managing a successful restaurant.