Getting Married What Should I Pay

[coventry]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

It sounds like you speak from experience...

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

[unforgiven]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

It sounds like you speak from experience...

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

I'm married to one as well...........I'm just reading this idiot the riot act

[LoveDaBlues]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

So the Thai men at a Thai + Thai wedding who pay sinsod are fools too?

Actually, using your logic they would be MUCH BIGGER FOOLS because 100K baht is a LOT MORE to a Thai than to a farang.

I'll forgive you for this blunder.....no longer are you "unforgiven".

[LoveDaBlues]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

It sounds like you speak from experience...

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

You don't have a marriage. You have a maid who probably lives in fear of you. Pity.

[Krub]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

It sounds like you speak from experience...

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

I thought slavery was abolished some years ago

[Travel2003]

SHE HAS A DEGREE SHE WORK IN BKK AS A MANAGER IN A HOTEL SHE IS 31 YEARS OLD NEVER BEEN MARRIED SAME AS ME I,M 32 WORKING IN THAILAND AS AN ENGLISH TEACHER FROM ENGLAND SO I,M NOT RICH LOL.....

Strange nobody has mentioned the "skin tax" in the country.

You will pay much much much much more as a farang then a Thai.

btw,

English teacher? And from England as well?

Seriously, if my English teacher (from a country with another language) had displayed that grammar, he would have been out of a job (or maybe found one in Thailand, haha).

Sailor

[coventry]

You don't have a marriage. You have a maid who probably lives in fear of you. Pity.

You make assumptions that are totally wrong. I have a beautiful wife, whose expecting a baby shortly, not a maid as you assume ! I have given all my money/ bank account details to my wife, to access in the event of my death, so it's me that's living in fear of her ! She can now access any of my accounts at her own choosing. Do you think I would entrust these details to a maid or a woman who I felt didn't love me ? Of course not. I have listened to many sob stories from Farangs that have been reduced to the gutter because of being ripped off and if many of them had made sure that they were in control, before they took up a relationship, then we wouldn't have the many problems that we have now regarding Farangs being made fools of.

An appology wouldn't go a miss because I can assure you that you wouldn't repeat that sentence again on a face to face basis.

[blizzard]

i understand the part you pay to marry the girl, cost being determined by many factors as mentioned, IS PRETTINESS OF THE GIRL ONE OF THEM?

and once you are married i guess by thai culture one is expected if you are a farang to help girls family. is it a nominal monthly fee or does it have to to be enough to actually help family.

and what happens if the thai girl marries for love of the man not his money.

no offense to this guy but the parents cant count on him financially.

no offense coventry, but i never having met you are in fear of you! you can tell a lot by how a person posts.

[LoveDaBlues]

You don't have a marriage. You have a maid who probably lives in fear of you. Pity.

You make assumptions that are totally wrong. I have a beautiful wife, whose expecting a baby shortly, not a maid as you assume ! I have given all my money/ bank account details to my wife, to access in the event of my death, so it's me that's living in fear of her ! She can now access any of my accounts at her own choosing. Do you think I would entrust these details to a maid or a woman who I felt didn't love me ? Of course not. I have listened to many sob stories from Farangs that have been reduced to the gutter because of being ripped off and if many of them had made sure that they were in control, before they took up a relationship, then we wouldn't have the many problems that we have now regarding Farangs being made fools of.

An appology wouldn't go a miss because I can assure you that you wouldn't repeat that sentence again on a face to face basis.

YOU think I owe YOU an apology?

After you wrote the following:

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

YOU called my Thai wife a "nothing" and a "Farang exploiter". You also called the OP "a complete idiot". Real class post.

I made no assumptions; only commented based on what you posted.

Now that you've commented further I can see that your girl is different. I'm sure YOU will never be taken for a ride because your girl is different.

As far as the face-to-face stuff.....sorry you're a bit late......we already have a 'Rambo' on this forum.....go play internet bad-ass somewhere else.

BTW, I don't "control" my wife; she's my equal. She's made plenty of mistakes just as I have.....we're still together.

Here's hoping your wife has a beautiful, healthy baby.

One more thing. If you don't believe in sinsod; fine for you don't pay it. But it's not cool to call people "idiots" who have a different point of view; especially in Issan where sinsod is widely accepted and practiced by Thai.

[qualtrough]

Married my wife 12 years ago. Fresh college grad from BKK area. Parents wanted sin sod, something like 100K and some gold. I was against it, but saw how much it meant to the family. Parents gave us a plot of land to build their house on, and later the rest of the land and their old house. Value of that was about 2-2-5 M. Haven't asked for a dime since. Mother in Law, who never went to school but is whip-smart when it comes to money and the value of hard work, bought my wife a car recently. So, what's my point? That Sin Sod is a local custom that is important to many, and not necessarily an attempt to rip off a farang. By all means be careful, but on the other hand I wouldn't believe all the crap a lot of losers here go on about.

[pazza]

Can someone explain to me what 1 baht, 2 baht gold is, I am sorry but I do not know and would like to for when I get married over in Thailand.

Steve

[Totster]

Can someone explain to me what 1 baht, 2 baht gold is, I am sorry but I do not know and would like to for when I get married over in Thailand.

Steve

The unit of measure for Thai Gold is Baht

1 baht = 15.16 grams

totster

[tropo]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Good luck and make sure it is done in the traditional way so that the whole village is a witness to your generosity. It will make wonders for your in-laws status in their community

And make the whole community think you are rich. IMO it's better to marry low key.

[tropo]

Can someone explain to me what 1 baht, 2 baht gold is, I am sorry but I do not know and would like to for when I get married over in Thailand.

Steve

The unit of measure for Thai Gold is Baht

1 baht = 15.16 grams

totster

To be precise it's 15.16 grams of 96.5% gold therefor a Thai Baht of gold = 14.63 grams of gold.

Most shops still sell gold in 15.2 gram measures but the industry is pushing for a 15.16 gram standard.

Be careful where you buy it as a lot of Thai gold that is sold as 96.5% pure is only 92% or less. You'd never know it. Buy from a reputable dealer.

Before you buy it, check out this site: How much is my jewelry worth

[Totster]

Well... seeing as the standard is 96.5% (or 23 carat) gold then 1 baht of Thai gold is 15.16 grams.

The question is answered..... no need to confuse the issue more with purity.

totster

[pazza]

Thanks guys.

Could you tell me how this gold is given i.e. neck chain, bracelet, or a ring, (if one of the aforementioned) can these have, for example, the ring can have a diamond like a engagement ring, or does it (the gold) have to be plain.

hope you can help.

Steve

[Krub]

Thanks guys.

Could you tell me how this gold is given i.e. neck chain, bracelet, or a ring, (if one of the aforementioned) can these have, for example, the ring can have a diamond like a engagement ring, or does it (the gold) have to be plain.

hope you can help.

Steve

As it is given to the family (generaly parents) and not your future wife, the gold is plain.

If it is understood that the gold will be passed on to your wife, by all means do include a diamond (bigger the better !)

The idea of the gold is that it is readily exchanged for cash

Thais do not seem to value the gold as a piece of jewelry but more as a cashable commodity. Very often they will cash it and it can create 'problems' if the gold was given with its sentimental value of the west (like an engagement ring/jewelry)

[unforgiven]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

So the Thai men at a Thai + Thai wedding who pay sinsod are fools too?

Actually, using your logic they would be MUCH BIGGER FOOLS because 100K baht is a LOT MORE to a Thai than to a farang.

I'll forgive you for this blunder.....no longer are you "unforgiven".

Boy oh boy your a real newby...........no thai pays sin sod for a girl over thirty.Her being pregnant and over thirty no thai family would expect sin sod from a thai man ... check it out with a thai man....super ding dong......ha ...ha ... you guh man,I take care l,luv u soe mut.............you gu foe famillie

[LoveDaBlues]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE SPOKE TO MY GIRLFREIND AND THE PARENTS I,M GOING TO PAY 100000 AND BUY 2 BAHT OF GOLD CHEAPER THAN A ENGLAND WEDDING SO CANT GRUMBLE

Your a fool... first for agreeing to that rediculous amount and second for comparing it to a western wedding...I'll give you one year and you'll be broke and well ripped of,,if you pay that they'll know they have a live one and the buffalo will get sick soon....btw you girl is going to rip you good.... ding dong

So the Thai men at a Thai + Thai wedding who pay sinsod are fools too?

Actually, using your logic they would be MUCH BIGGER FOOLS because 100K baht is a LOT MORE to a Thai than to a farang.

I'll forgive you for this blunder.....no longer are you "unforgiven".

Boy oh boy your a real newby...........no thai pays sin sod for a girl over thirty.Her being pregnant and over thirty no thai family would expect sin sod from a thai man ... check it out with a thai man....super ding dong......ha ...ha ... you guh man,I take care l,luv u soe mut.............you gu foe famillie

ha ha.......yea I'm a newbie......right.

I guess the Thai + Thai wedding I just attended last week where the woman was preggy (7 months) was just an illusion. The sinsod was counted out less than 4 feet from where I was sitting (100K). 1 baht gold also.

The beer sure tasted good for an illusion.........

hahahahaha.....my Thai wife (who reads, writes, and speaks English) was just looking over my shoulder at this post and said, "What, is he crazy" (referring to you).

methinks you learn about Thailand from a barstool and forums.

[pazza]

Thanks guys.

Could you tell me how this gold is given i.e. neck chain, bracelet, or a ring, (if one of the aforementioned) can these have, for example, the ring can have a diamond like a engagement ring, or does it (the gold) have to be plain.

hope you can help.

Steve

As it is given to the family (generaly parents) and not your future wife, the gold is plain.

If it is understood that the gold will be passed on to your wife, by all means do include a diamond (bigger the better !) Did my future wife ask you to say that

The idea of the gold is that it is readily exchanged for cash

Thais do not seem to value the gold as a piece of jewelry but more as a cashable commodity. Very often they will cash it and it can create 'problems' if the gold was given with its sentimental value of the west (like an engagement ring/jewelry)

Thanks Krub, I learn someting new everyday.

Steve

[Krub]

Thanks guys.

Could you tell me how this gold is given i.e. neck chain, bracelet, or a ring, (if one of the aforementioned) can these have, for example, the ring can have a diamond like a engagement ring, or does it (the gold) have to be plain.

hope you can help.

Steve

As it is given to the family (generaly parents) and not your future wife, the gold is plain.

If it is understood that the gold will be passed on to your wife, by all means do include a diamond (bigger the better !) Did my future wife ask you to say that

The idea of the gold is that it is readily exchanged for cash

Thais do not seem to value the gold as a piece of jewelry but more as a cashable commodity. Very often they will cash it and it can create 'problems' if the gold was given with its sentimental value of the west (like an engagement ring/jewelry)

Thanks Krub, I learn someting new everyday.

Steve

Steve

You're welcome

Glad you managed the joke as so many others seem to be quite uptight in this forum

Let us knowhow the wedding goes

[blizzard]

many others seem to be quite uptight is putting it mildly......

[pazza]

Thanks guys.

Could you tell me how this gold is given i.e. neck chain, bracelet, or a ring, (if one of the aforementioned) can these have, for example, the ring can have a diamond like a engagement ring, or does it (the gold) have to be plain.

hope you can help.

Steve

As it is given to the family (generaly parents) and not your future wife, the gold is plain.

If it is understood that the gold will be passed on to your wife, by all means do include a diamond (bigger the better !) Did my future wife ask you to say that

The idea of the gold is that it is readily exchanged for cash

Thais do not seem to value the gold as a piece of jewelry but more as a cashable commodity. Very often they will cash it and it can create 'problems' if the gold was given with its sentimental value of the west (like an engagement ring/jewelry)

Thanks Krub, I learn someting new everyday.

Steve

Steve

You're welcome

Glad you managed the joke as so many others seem to be quite uptight in this forum

Let us knowhow the wedding goes

I must admit it is one of the things that mystifies me about some people and I am sorry this is a bit off topic but I want to learn and every time I see some replies (you know who you are) it just make me wonder, why, what do they get out of it???.

Far be it for me to judge but, “they” come to Thailand, fall in love with the country and the people, then set about finding fault with virtually everything (the clue is in the name LOS).

When I come to LOS to retire, I know I will not be able to do everything Thai but, I (personally) want to fit into their way of life (as much as possible) and not thrust my way of life on to the Thais (integrating just takes time, the desire and mistakes, to get things right, and some things never will).

If I wanted things to be the same as they are now (I am in the cold, wet and miserable UK) I could save my money and stay here, but I don’t, I want to be one of the many stupidly happy people on this forum and in LOS (and I will be soon, I hope).

I (again personally) appreciate the help and advice from the many experienced people on this forum and try to ignore the losers.

I want to live where I want to live, with who I want to live with, doing what I want to do (and they will not discourage me).

Steve

[Krub]

I must admit it is one of the things that mystifies me about some people and I am sorry this is a bit off topic but I want to learn and every time I see some replies (you know who you are) it just make me wonder, why, what do they get out of it???.

Far be it for me to judge but, “they” come to Thailand, fall in love with the country and the people, then set about finding fault with virtually everything (the clue is in the name LOS).

When I come to LOS to retire, I know I will not be able to do everything Thai but, I (personally) want to fit into their way of life (as much as possible) and not thrust my way of life on to the Thais (integrating just takes time, the desire and mistakes, to get things right, and some things never will).

If I wanted things to be the same as they are now (I am in the cold, wet and miserable UK) I could save my money and stay here, but I don’t, I want to be one of the many stupidly happy people on this forum and in LOS (and I will be soon, I hope).

I (again personally) appreciate the help and advice from the many experienced people on this forum and try to ignore the losers.

I want to live where I want to live, with who I want to live with, doing what I want to do (and they will not discourage me).

Steve

I don't think it is much off topic at all.

Trying to blend into your new family's community is the only way to fully enjoy your life and make others feel confortable.

By the way I am also looking forward to a complete move to LOS as soon as I manage my employer to make me redundant !

In the meantime I will be in Thailand as much as possible on extended breaks

[qualtrough]

I must admit it is one of the things that mystifies me about some people and I am sorry this is a bit off topic but I want to learn and every time I see some replies (you know who you are) it just make me wonder, why, what do they get out of it???.

Far be it for me to judge but, “they” come to Thailand, fall in love with the country and the people, then set about finding fault with virtually everything (the clue is in the name LOS).

When I come to LOS to retire, I know I will not be able to do everything Thai but, I (personally) want to fit into their way of life (as much as possible) and not thrust my way of life on to the Thais (integrating just takes time, the desire and mistakes, to get things right, and some things never will).

If I wanted things to be the same as they are now (I am in the cold, wet and miserable UK) I could save my money and stay here, but I don’t, I want to be one of the many stupidly happy people on this forum and in LOS (and I will be soon, I hope).

I (again personally) appreciate the help and advice from the many experienced people on this forum and try to ignore the losers.

I want to live where I want to live, with who I want to live with, doing what I want to do (and they will not discourage me).

Steve

Steve, with that attitude you will probably do OK here. There are indeed a lot of miserable people here. The mistakes many of them make is to assume that their experience with anything will be true for everyone, and that all Thai people are the same. Wrong on both counts.

[dkstoney]

The best way to make this decision is to ask yourself what are you going to use her for. I mean, you're buying her right, and just like a good truck you should have her gone over by an experienced professional to give her a clean bill of health. You should also make sure that all of her limbs have full range of motion tests performed and try to get a pretty honest estimate of how many years you'll get out of her serving in the function for which she is being purchased. There's also the issue of comprehension and psychological testing to help determine whether she is in fact capable of handling the stress and intellectual requirements of the position she is given. Just passing on good advice to help you further evaluate the value of your new bride. Good luck and congratulations!

P.S.--Some parents don't really want or require sin sod as with my wife's parents. We had a normal wedding in BKK where a lot of guests brought envelopes with money in them. We gave that money to her parents and they spent it on throwing a bash in the village where we all partied for about 3 days. There was a stage and a band and endless music, food, and drink. Nobody counted out money and no gold was flashed around for the wide-eyed villagers to oooh and aaaah. I guess it just depends on you and them.

[frikkiedeboer]

[frikkiedeboer]

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

have to agree with you,coventry- anybody who pays even one satang in dowry is a complete idiot and is setting himself up for future rip-offs by the "family". you will drive yourself crazy trying to "fit in" or "do the right thing" or "respect their culture".they know that you are a farang, and no matter how much the family may let you think, or you fool yourself into thinking that you "fit in" or are "accepted as one of the family",-the sad truth is that as long as your wallet opens easily you will be regarded only as a milk-cow, and will be a target for all the scams they regularly use to extort money from the farang.( granny fell down the stairs; small brother need to go school;need money tio buy fertiliser; brother used mommy's house paper as collateral for a loan, now she will lose everything if you dont help, etc etc etc)

you will earn more respect by showing them that you are not a fool; stop trying to be a thai-be yourself and act as you would in your own country. if you do this you will soon notice that the thais will try to fit in with you and you will manage to live a far less stressed life in thailand, and you will earn more of their respect this way!.

hey, coventry- just figured out who you are- maybe you should give old brian some of the same advice!

best regards

frikkie from south africa

[LoveDaBlues]

Good words. This person is a complete idiot. Pay nothing , if she loves him, she'll get her benefits by marrying him for nothing. Thai women are nothing but a bunch of Farang exploiters and any Farang that gets taken in by them is destined for doom.

I am married to a Thai but I made it known to her, from the start, that one error and she's history. She knows where she stands ! Make sure your in control, or God help you.

have to agree with you,coventry- anybody who pays even one satang in dowry is a complete idiot and is setting himself up for future rip-offs by the "family". you will drive yourself crazy trying to "fit in" or "do the right thing" or "respect their culture".they know that you are a farang, and no matter how much the family may let you think, or you fool yourself into thinking that you "fit in" or are "accepted as one of the family",-the sad truth is that as long as your wallet opens easily you will be regarded only as a milk-cow, and will be a target for all the scams they regularly use to extort money from the farang.( granny fell down the stairs; small brother need to go school;need money tio buy fertiliser; brother used mommy's house paper as collateral for a loan, now she will lose everything if you dont help, etc etc etc)

you will earn more respect by showing them that you are not a fool; stop trying to be a thai-be yourself and act as you would in your own country. if you do this you will soon notice that the thais will try to fit in with you and you will manage to live a far less stressed life in thailand, and you will earn more of their respect this way!.

hey, coventry- just figured out who you are- maybe you should give old brian some of the same advice!

best regards

frikkie from south africa

If I were married to a lady from my home country and her family needed help (in any way) I would provide that help if I could. I do the same here in Thailand. I'm under no stress here. I was told early on by the wife's family that I'm under no obligation to help them; just take good care of their daughter. I give help because I feel it's the right thing to do IMHO and I enjoy giving.

I have a friend who's Thai wife had to tell him to STOP with the giving because he's done enough already for her and the family. Not all Thai women will bleed you dry; you just have to find the right one.

[coventry]

I thought it was just me that no longer sees Thailand through rose coloured glasses.

I still say that people that see Thailand as the Land of Smiles and Bangkok is the City of Angels is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. A condition where by someone who's been kidnapped or lives with someone for long enough begins to act and think like their abductors or partners. The amazing thing is that they do not realise it or that once being told, they have this condition they refuse to accept it. Consequently many, not all, expats become adopted Thais due to this condition. A bad thing. First thing that is taught in Farang countries to immigrants is remember your roots and heritage.

I live here because it suits my needs and the Thais let me live here because it suits their needs but one thing I cannot accept is this pressure to say nothing but good things about Thais and Thailand. Let people know it's not the beautiful, LoS that it's made out to be. For instance:- Issan has got to be a fly tippers paradise. Let's have a forum that tells it as it is. I'm sure this forum would be full of this type of statements if expats weren't too scared of rocking the boat. I'm sure I will be told I'm wrong ! I also expect someone to say I suffer from a syndrome. Yes I do it's called "realistic and honesty."