Trump and allies launch new efforts to overturn Biden victory in key states

[RocketDog]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About Americans in Thailand and Trump:

Before the 2016 election I spoke with an American guy in my building. He just returned from the GOP primaries in Bangkok (I am not sure if that is the correct term). He was delighted that the majority voted for Trump. So it seem there are also lots of Americans in Thailand who support(ed) Trump.

 

of course it's hard to tell how many supporters are here; my comment is based strictly on personal experience. Yet a year ago I was so tired of folks asking me if I was American and then launching into a tirade against The Deluded Yam that I threatened to tell them I was Canadian! ????????????

[polpott]

2 hours ago, CaptRon2 said:

Your great knowledge on the purpose of the lawsuits would hold more water if you had a reference.

i believe the purpose of the lawsuits is to get this away from the alleged corruption of a few states and into the Supreme Court 

There is no corruption. Any evidence? Possibly does want to get some of these cases in front of the Supreme Court as he has packed it heavily in his favour, however I doubt that even his SCOTUS patsys would dare to find in his favour when being presented with zero evidence.

 

The purpose of these erroneous lawsuits is to give people like you something to latch onto and keep his base loyal for the next 4 years.

 

 

[onthedarkside]

An off topic post citing a case in California where authorities caught and prosecuted an attempted fraudulent voter registration effort -- which as a result meant no fraudulent votes were cast and having nothing to do with the recent Presidential election -- has been removed along with various replies.

[RocketDog]

19 hours ago, alex8912 said:

A lot of Americans laugh about your claim of actually being able to read the minds of over 60 million people. Also the amount of people like yourself that still don’t get it. 

There may be a large variety of reasons that supporters clamor to election justice they see as being denied.

The fact that there is apparently no evidence to support this is apparently irrelevant to them.

 

So indeed I cannot read their minds but am forced by facts to conclude that they are simply displaying a large variety of delusions. To each his own apparently.

It is a dangerous proposition to go through life denying reality though; it often leads to bad outcomes. Mistaking an angry brown bear in the forest for Smokey or Teddy can be fatal.????

[johnnybangkok]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That is in principle a good idea. But who are those real Americans?

I don't know many Americans but sometimes I talk to them. With some of them I can have a cordial conversation. When I ask them about Trump they agree that he is an <would be censored>.

And seldom I talk to an American who supports Trump. Most of the time I try to stay away from such people. But sometimes I ask them about Trump. And it seems they think he is the messiahs. Apart from that I couldn't get much sense out of them.

 

In general I think it would be a great idea if Americans would talk more with Americans from the other side. Maybe if they would do that more often they would understand each other better. The problem is obviously they have different realities. What is the middle ground between NYT readers and fox? Maybe they will be able to agree on the weather but that's about it.

A noble thought but completely useless. If TVF is anything to go by, the staunchest of Trump fans simply do not want to hear facts and will never criticise their beloved leader no matter what insane thought comes out of his mind or action he takes. We have seen this constantly over the last 4 years when debating Trump fans; every conspiracy theory is taken as truth; every argument cherry picked to the point it seldom resembles the original discussion; there's outlandish deflections and straw man fallacies galore. Even now with so much eveidence to show that Biden won this election fare and square, tens of millions of them would rather believe a grifter of a POTUS and his deranged 'elite strike force team' than federal judges and committed servants to the nation.

Healing certainly has to be done but it's really difficult to see how that can even start when quite so many just won't accept reality.

    

[Berkshire]

38 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

A noble thought but completely useless. If TVF is anything to go by, the staunchest of Trump fans simply do not want to hear facts and will never criticise their beloved leader no matter what insane thought comes out of his mind or action he takes. We have seen this constantly over the last 4 years when debating Trump fans; every conspiracy theory is taken as truth; every argument cherry picked to the point it seldom resembles the original discussion; there's outlandish deflections and straw man fallacies galore. Even now with so much eveidence to show that Biden won this election fare and square, tens of millions of them would rather believe a grifter of a POTUS and his deranged 'elite strike force team' than federal judges and committed servants to the nation.

Healing certainly has to be done but it's really difficult to see how that can even start when quite so many just won't accept reality.

    

Agree.  I know a few Trump supporters in Thailand and talking to these guys is incredibly frustrating.  The biggest problem is that these people really do live in an alternate reality.  If these folks don't like what they see in the news, they'll find another news source that fits their narrative.  Some Trump supporters have been ditching Fox News and flocking to Newsmax.  Why?  Because Fox has largely accepted that Joe Biden is the President-elect while Newsmax has not.  Some people would rather watch fake news that they agree with than real news that they don't.  It's asinine, but that's how it is.  I tend to believe that "Trumpian" will slowly diminish in influence once the man himself is out-of-office.  But others fear it will linger for some time, especially if Trump decides to run again in 2024.  So yeah, America may remain severely divided for a few more years.   

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Seems they were deployed due to the troop drawn downs in various countries. Not specifically Iran.

 

https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/why-are-american-b-52s-back-in-middle-east-649871

You were very lucky in finding one of the very few unbiased reports.

 

The Jerusalem Post.

 

Sarcasm mode off.

[johnnybangkok]

19 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Agree.  I know a few Trump supporters in Thailand and talking to these guys is incredibly frustrating.  The biggest problem is that these people really do live in an alternate reality.  If these folks don't like what they see in the news, they'll find another news source that fits their narrative.  Some Trump supporters have been ditching Fox News and flocking to Newsmax.  Why?  Because Fox has largely accepted that Joe Biden is the President-elect while Newsmax has not.  Some people would rather watch fake news that they agree with than real news that they don't.  It's asinine, but that's how it is.  I tend to believe that "Trumpian" will slowly diminish in influence once the man himself is out-of-office.  But others fear it will linger for some time, especially if Trump decides to run again in 2024.  So yeah, America may remain severely divided for a few more years.   

I'm the same. Very good Bangkok friend is an ex- NY cop and a staunch Trump fan. A really nice guy about everything else other than Trump. For some reason he just will not listen to facts, dismissing everything with 'fake news' (will we ever get over that phrase?), but, but Hilary and 'alternative facts'. 

It's truly amazing to see how seemingly lovely, sensible people can suspend reality just to defend Trump.    

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About Americans in Thailand and Trump:

Before the 2016 election I spoke with an American guy in my building. He just returned from the GOP primaries in Bangkok (I am not sure if that is the correct term). He was delighted that the majority voted for Trump. So it seem there are also lots of Americans in Thailand who support(ed) Trump.

 

IMO the more rational of the Trump supporters had high hopes of him at the start of his Presidency, then became disillusioned when it became clear he was merely substituting crocodiles for alligators in the swamp he promised to drain. Biden's margin over Trump is 6 million votes, whereas Clinton's was a bit less than 3 million. That, after Trump calling Biden the worst Presidential candidate in America's history.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

  Nobody every said life is fair.

One of our Prime Ministers, Malcolm Fraser, famously made the remark " Life wasn't meant to be easy". He copped a lot of flak for it.

Quite rarely, a politician will forget their script and actually state the truth about an issue. They seldom get praise for doing so.

I doubt Trump will ever make that kind of mistake.

[xylophone]

37 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Agree.  I know a few Trump supporters in Thailand and talking to these guys is incredibly frustrating.  The biggest problem is that these people really do live in an alternate reality.  If these folks don't like what they see in the news, they'll find another news source that fits their narrative.  Some Trump supporters have been ditching Fox News and flocking to Newsmax.  Why?  Because Fox has largely accepted that Joe Biden is the President-elect while Newsmax has not.  Some people would rather watch fake news that they agree with than real news that they don't.  It's asinine, but that's how it is.  I tend to believe that "Trumpian" will slowly diminish in influence once the man himself is out-of-office.  But others fear it will linger for some time, especially if Trump decides to run again in 2024.  So yeah, America may remain severely divided for a few more years.   

Yes it is incredibly frustrating talking to the trump supporters here because they do not even take notice of what is in the reliable news networks and newspapers, seeking to look past it, seeking, as you say, another new source which fits their narrative (cognitive dissonance is how a friend of mine describes it).

 

Even presenting them with a proven fact makes no difference whatsoever, because as far as they are concerned, it just simply is not true.

 

Pleased to hear that you think that "trumpian" will slowly diminish in influence once the idiot is out of office, however my main concern is that if there were enough simpleminded folk out there to vote this clown in then, these simpleminded folk will still be around in four years time and be susceptible to the ramblings of an all-American huckster/liar/cheat, whatever you want to call him.

 

Sad times for the USA.
 

[Olmate]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

One of our Prime Ministers, Malcolm Fraser, famously made the remark " Life wasn't meant to be easy". He copped a lot of flak for it.

Quite rarely, a politician will forget their script and actually state the truth about an issue. They seldom get praise for doing so.

I doubt Trump will ever make that kind of mistake.

Prior to him  forgetting his dacks in motel room! 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, polpott said:

There is no corruption. Any evidence? Possibly does want to get some of these cases in front of the Supreme Court as he has packed it heavily in his favour, however I doubt that even his SCOTUS patsys would dare to find in his favour when being presented with zero evidence.

 

The purpose of these erroneous lawsuits is to give people like you something to latch onto and keep his base loyal for the next 4 years.

 

 

I wonder why the US courts are not punishing people who bring these charges to the court with no evidence again and again, and several cases where their claims were proved categorically to be incorrect but they brought cases again and again.  

 

In most countries this would be seen as a form of contempt of court and severe lack of respect for the law and judicial processes, and they would quickly be severely reprimanded or punished. 

 

Yes, if they have evidence it must be heard. 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I wonder why the US courts are not punishing people who bring these charges to the court with no evidence again and again, and several cases where their claims were proved categorically to be incorrect but they brought cases again and again.  

 

In most countries this would be seen as a form of contempt of court and severe lack of respect for the law and judicial processes, and they would quickly be severely reprimanded or punished. 

 

Yes, if they have evidence it must be heard. 

IMO Giuliani is sailing very close to the wind in that respect, I'm just wondering when one of the judges will drop the hammer.

[RocketDog]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

One of our Prime Ministers, Malcolm Fraser, famously made the remark " Life wasn't meant to be easy". He copped a lot of flak for it.

Quite rarely, a politician will forget their script and actually state the truth about an issue. They seldom get praise for doing so.

I doubt Trump will ever make that kind of mistake.

Fraser's remark has a bit too much religious overtone for me, as if life was intended by somebody to be something in particular.

The only time Trump makes a mistake is when he repeats the same lie with variations on actual numbers or dates or people involved.

 

I seriously don't think he ever consciously lies however. He has lied so thoroughly for so much of his life that he is truly not aware that he's lying. He has learned that fabrication of facts are so often accepted by his minions that he believes whatever comes out of his mouth is true, he just can't exactly remember why he thinks it.

 

He is a completely flawed human with no consciousness of his actions, thoughts, or words. Obviously that appeals to too many people and that is what we should ultimately be concerned about.

[RocketDog]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I wonder why the US courts are not punishing people who bring these charges to the court with no evidence again and again, and several cases where their claims were proved categorically to be incorrect but they brought cases again and again.  

 

In most countries this would be seen as a form of contempt of court and severe lack of respect for the law and judicial processes, and they would quickly be severely reprimanded or punished. 

 

Yes, if they have evidence it must be heard. 

Like foreign leaders initially did, the courts continue to give him the respect his office deserves. Maybe that should continue to be the case because we should not disrespect an office just because the man holding it is human offal. I would comment on Giuliani but he's such a classic clown it would constitute mocking the handicapped.

 

In the end it all works out though because Trump takes very opportunity to disgrace himself and his office regardless. I remain convinced that he was voted out of office partially, and perhaps crucially, because of who he is and not what his  policies are.

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Fraser's remark has a bit too much religious overtone for me, as if life was intended by somebody to be something in particular.

The only time Trump makes a mistake is when he repeats the same lie with variations on actual numbers or dates or people involved.

 

I seriously don't think he ever consciously lies however. He has lied so thoroughly for so much of his life that he is truly not aware that he's lying. He has learned that fabrication of facts are so often accepted by his minions that he believes whatever comes out of his mouth is true, he just can't exactly remember why he thinks it.

 

He is a completely flawed human with no consciousness of his actions, thoughts, or words. Obviously that appeals to too many people and that is what we should ultimately be concerned about.

If one goes onto any website that describes the attributes of a high-functioning sociopath, then compares it with what Trump says and does, it's astounding how many boxes he manages to tick.

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/sociopathy/traits-of-a-high-functioning-sociopath/

 

[Sujo]

Rudy should be consigned to advertising boot polish hair dye. Its all he has left.

[candide]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I wonder why the US courts are not punishing people who bring these charges to the court with no evidence again and again, and several cases where their claims were proved categorically to be incorrect but they brought cases again and again.  

 

In most countries this would be seen as a form of contempt of court and severe lack of respect for the law and judicial processes, and they would quickly be severely reprimanded or punished. 

 

Yes, if they have evidence it must be heard. 

They are not punished because they are very cautious. They talk about fraud on TV but don't use this word in front of courts (I.e. Giuliani " this is not a fraud case").

The numerous conspiracy theories Giuliani is bragging about on TV are never addressed in courts. It's just aimed at gullible Trumpers!

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

They are not punished because they are very cautious. They talk about fraud on TV but don't use this word in front of courts (I.e. Giuliani " this is not a fraud case").

The numerous conspiracy theories Giuliani is bragging about on TV are never addressed in courts. It's just aimed at gullible Trumpers!

And the judges in these courts can't see through the 'fog' they are trying to create?

 

I doubt that.

[J Town]

It would appear one lawmaker finally had enough:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-pascrell-disbarment-rudy-giuliani-trump-election_n_5fbaf260c5b6e4b1ea4399a5

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

If one goes onto any website that describes the attributes of a high-functioning sociopath, then compares it with what Trump says and does, it's astounding how many boxes he manages to tick.

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/sociopathy/traits-of-a-high-functioning-sociopath/

 

I understand that "high-functioning" is a clinical term but it still seems inappropriate to refer to Trump using an adjective like 'high'. 

 

Early in his first year of office phychiatrists diagnosed him as a psychopath. I think most people take that for granted, maybe even many of his followers who see it as some bizzare badge of honor. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

 

 

In the end it all works out though because Trump takes very opportunity to disgrace himself and his office regardless. I remain convinced that he was voted out of office partially, and perhaps crucially, because of who he is and not what his  policies are.

Historians will probably argue for years about the factors that brought about Trump's loss, as it's fairly rare for an incumbent to be denied a second term. Personally, I believe his denialism and braggadocio during the pandemic was a major cause, with the Woodward interviews being the final straw.

Jimmy Carter built a stellar reputation for his humanitarian activities after his one-term Presidency, it's sad that Trump will eventually depart this earth with an entirely different legacy.

[J Town]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Historians will probably argue for years about the factors that brought about Trump's loss, as it's fairly rare for an incumbent to be denied a second term. Personally, I believe his denialism and braggadocio during the pandemic was a major cause, with the Woodward interviews being the final straw.

We'll never know, but I'm convinced if he had just paid a little honest attention to Covid-19 then he would easily have sailed into a second term.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I'm the same. Very good Bangkok friend is an ex- NY cop and a staunch Trump fan. A really nice guy about everything else other than Trump. For some reason he just will not listen to facts, dismissing everything with 'fake news' (will we ever get over that phrase?), but, but Hilary and 'alternative facts'. 

It's truly amazing to see how seemingly lovely, sensible people can suspend reality just to defend Trump.    

I think one big problem for many of these people is that basically they can't reverse their opinion.

If they would now admit Trump won then they might also have to think about that Trump was not the best president ever. And maybe they even have to acknowledge that Trump did a horrible job with Covid. And more and more and more truth about Trump. So basically they would have to admit that for 4 years they listed to lies and believed them. That's like holing up a sign "I was an idiot for the last 4 years". It's not really surprising that people don't want to do that. Just deny reality a little longer...

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, J Town said:

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Historians will probably argue for years about the factors that brought about Trump's loss, as it's fairly rare for an incumbent to be denied a second term. Personally, I believe his denialism and braggadocio during the pandemic was a major cause, with the Woodward interviews being the final straw.

We'll never know, but I'm convinced if he had just paid a little honest attention to Covid-19 then he would easily have sailed into a second term.

Yes, and imagine the news about the working vaccine would have been published a week before the election. Oh no, I don't want to think about what might have happened. 

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, J Town said:

It would appear one lawmaker finally had enough:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-pascrell-disbarment-rudy-giuliani-trump-election_n_5fbaf260c5b6e4b1ea4399a5

The remainder of Trump's Fab 5 legal strikeforce should also be scrutinize and face disbarment. Loony conspiracy theorist Sidney Powell, Ukraine shakedown husband and wife Joseph DiGenova and Victoria Toensing who once called Trump an idiot and can't be trusted.  

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, J Town said:

We'll never know, but I'm convinced if he had just paid a little honest attention to Covid-19 then he would easily have sailed into a second term.

Trump is incapable of nuance, such as striking a reasonable balance between containing the pandemic and supporting the economy.  He decided that since the virus was bad for the economy, and he had bragged endlessly about the economy, it was better to pretend the virus wasn't important..

[ChouDoufu]

14 hours ago, bendejo said:

At this point it's about getting something before the US Supreme Court.  Likely Alito and Thomas will keep true to the party regardless of the hogwash presented, and the three he appointed are already there.

If the chief justice accepts the case at all, not good: welcome to Belarus.

 

 

 

not likely to be a problem at all.  even though trump appointed these judges, they are in no way required to rule according to his wishes. 

 

he wanted "strict constructionist, not activist" judges who will rule according to the law and legal precedent.  if they do accept one ,or possibly two, of his elite lethal team's hail mary's, the suits will be soundly defeated.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[ChouDoufu]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

I wonder why the US courts are not punishing people who bring these charges to the court with no evidence again and again, and several cases where their claims were proved categorically to be incorrect but they brought cases again and again.  

 

In most countries this would be seen as a form of contempt of court and severe lack of respect for the law and judicial processes, and they would quickly be severely reprimanded or punished. 

 

Yes, if they have evidence it must be heard. 

 

but they are not claiming "fraud" in the courts.  lawyers are very careful with their words......in the courtroom where they would be held to account.  there are "potential irregularities" and "indications of malfeasance", but never fraud.