Killing of suspected Iranian nuclear mastermind risks confrontation as Trump exits

[Pilotman]

48 minutes ago, stevenl said:

In your own words: BS.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Nuclear-Diplomacy-With-Iran

Well, I looked through and found no mention of Iran violating the nuclear agreement. Why didn't you quote the paragraph that supports your claim? Maybe because it's non-existent?

[RocketDog]

12 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

Iran will always be a rogue state,I think they’ll prefer conning/dealing with Biden more than Trump. 

Please share your logic with us. Or is it possible that you are just a frustrated loser supporter lashing out blindly. 

[ThailandRyan]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, I looked through and found no mention of Iran violating the nuclear agreement. Why didn't you quote the paragraph that supports your claim? Maybe because it's non-existent?

Iran's Disregard for International Law and Agreements | UANI (unitedagainstnucleariran.com)

[opalred]

trump wanted to bomb the nuclear plant before he left office /i will give you one guess who was behind the killing / clue a man with a low iq

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Iran's Disregard for International Law and Agreements | UANI (unitedagainstnucleariran.com)

Does this link to a document that says Iran violated the nuclear agreement? If so, provide a quote. I had to read through one supposed piece of evidence to no avail. I'm not going to do it again. If you won't provide that info, I'm going to assume quite reasonably that you've got nothing to support the contention that Iran violated the nuclear agreement.

 

Edited to account for different poster.

Edited November 28, 2020 by placeholder

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Does this link to a document that says Iran violated the nuclear agreement? If so, provide a quote. I had to read through one supposed piece of evidence to no avail. I'm not going to do it again. If you won't provide that info, I'm going to assume quite reasonably that you've got nothing to support the contention that Iran violated the nuclear agreement.

 

Edited to account for different poster.

UN agency: Iran violating all restrictions of nuclear deal - ABC News (go.com)

The agency said that as of May 20, Iran’s total stockpile of low-enriched uranium amounted to 1,571.6 kilograms (1.73 tons), up from 1,020.9 kilograms (1.1 tons) on Feb. 19.

Iran signed the nuclear deal in 2015 with the United States, Germany, France, Britain, China and Russia. Known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA, it allows Iran only to keep a stockpile of 202.8 kilograms (447 pounds).

The IAEA reported that Iran has also been continuing to enrich uranium to a purity of up to 4.5%, higher than the 3.67% allowed under the JCPOA. It is also above the pact's limitations on heavy water.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

UN agency: Iran violating all restrictions of nuclear deal - ABC News (go.com)

The agency said that as of May 20, Iran’s total stockpile of low-enriched uranium amounted to 1,571.6 kilograms (1.73 tons), up from 1,020.9 kilograms (1.1 tons) on Feb. 19.

Iran signed the nuclear deal in 2015 with the United States, Germany, France, Britain, China and Russia. Known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA, it allows Iran only to keep a stockpile of 202.8 kilograms (447 pounds).

The IAEA reported that Iran has also been continuing to enrich uranium to a purity of up to 4.5%, higher than the 3.67% allowed under the JCPOA. It is also above the pact's limitations on heavy water.

Yes, we know that. But it was contended that the Trump administration withdrew from the agreement because Iran was violating it. That's false As for Iran violating it now, why wouldn't they" The USA has seen to it that there is absolutely none of the promised advantages they were told would come to them if they complied the agreement. And the Trump administration actually claims that it has the legitimate power to enforce the agreement even though it has withdrawn from it. It is to laugh.

[Jingthing]

Not saying this was right to do but I question the terrorism label. He was seen as a military target and he was assassinated. More like an act of war than terrorism. Isn't terrorism more like just killing random civilians? Sure nuclear scientists in Iran are going to be afraid but Joe Blow Iranian smoking shisha isn't.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Not saying this was right to do but I question the terrorism label. He was seen as a military target and he was assassinated. Isn't terrorism more like just killing random people? Sure nuclear scientists in Iran are going to be afraid but Joe Blow Iranian smoking shisha isn't.

So an assassinating targeting say, an Israeli politician who authorized the act wouldn't be terrorism either? Because it's been the case that arab attacks on Israeli military targets do get labeled as terrorism.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So an assassinating targeting say, an Israeli politician who authorized the act wouldn't be terrorism either? Because it's been the case that arab attacks on Israeli military targets do get labeled as terrorism.

I don’t think attacks on Israeli military targets are generally labeled as terrorism. That is if done by a recognized enemy military entity. If it was a lone civilian running over random soldiers yeah that would be called terrorism. Its a different question about politicians. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jingthing

[billd766]

2 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yes but you are overlooking the fact that providing 'weapons to Gov'ts that wantonly kill women and children on a daily basis' is done to protect Americas interests (aka 'saving the world') and that is all that matters to the US.  Small pox infested blanket anybody?  They're free because we care.

What American interests are there in the Yemen? 

 

Yet the US is supplying arms and ammunition to SA and its "allies" to destroy  the "rebels" and in incidental damage killing men, women and children.

 

Yes the Iranians are aiding the "rebels", partly because nobody else is.

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

UN agency: Iran violating all restrictions of nuclear deal - ABC News (go.com)

The agency said that as of May 20, Iran’s total stockpile of low-enriched uranium amounted to 1,571.6 kilograms (1.73 tons), up from 1,020.9 kilograms (1.1 tons) on Feb. 19.

Iran signed the nuclear deal in 2015 with the United States, Germany, France, Britain, China and Russia. Known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA, it allows Iran only to keep a stockpile of 202.8 kilograms (447 pounds).

The IAEA reported that Iran has also been continuing to enrich uranium to a purity of up to 4.5%, higher than the 3.67% allowed under the JCPOA. It is also above the pact's limitations on heavy water.

 

JCPOA allows Iran to enrichment of 300 kgs for domestic use.

Overage can be sold as agreed to Russia as fuel assemblies. Please read the JCPOA regulations : it mentions 300 kgs, not 202,8 kgs as per your source.

 

EU is agreed to have a purity of 3,67% enrichment. Any enrichment above 3,67% has to be re-processed with lower EU to be reduced at 3,67% as per JCPOA requirements.

 

Can you provide figures of overage of heavy water. Many provisions in the JCPOA regulations are foreseen to sell overages to Russia and Kazakhstan. There are also provisions to use overages for Research and Development. All this under supervision of the JCPOA.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/122460/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal.pdf

Edited November 28, 2020 by Thorgal
Spelling

[RocketDog]

53 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So an assassinating targeting say, an Israeli politician who authorized the act wouldn't be terrorism either? Because it's been the case that arab attacks on Israeli military targets do get labeled as terrorism.

A policeman shooting a criminal is not terrorism. His aim is not disruption of society. 

A person who shoots a cop is a terrorist because his aim is disruption of society. 

 

A scientist who aids a terrorist state is a terrorist. Iran is a rogue state that supports terrorism. A person who authorizes that person's destruction is not a terrorist, he is defending his state. 

 

It's really that basic. 

[mikebike]

5 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

A policeman shooting a criminal is not terrorism.

Depends, like all things, on context.

 

Thats really basic.

 

It's a gray world, not black and white.

Edited November 28, 2020 by mikebike

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Iran's Disregard for International Law and Agreements | UANI (unitedagainstnucleariran.com)

 

I didn’t find any violation of Iran in your link concerning the JCPOA agreements.

 

JCPOA pact has been signed in July 2015.

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, Pilotman said:

BS

 

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I have provided the time line link further in this post.  read it yourself before rubbishing what I said. 

That was the earlier post in full. No timeline, just BS.

[Sujo]

51 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

I didn’t find any violation of Iran in your link concerning the JCPOA agreements.

 

JCPOA pact has been signed in July 2015.

Thats because there was no violation.

 

trump just doesnt like obama, thats it.

[Thorgal]

16 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Thats because there was no violation.

 

trump just doesnt like obama, thats it.

 

We have to call US Congressmen. (Joke)

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

A policeman shooting a criminal is not terrorism. His aim is not disruption of society. 

A person who shoots a cop is a terrorist because his aim is disruption of society. 

 

A scientist who aids a terrorist state is a terrorist. Iran is a rogue state that supports terrorism. A person who authorizes that person's destruction is not a terrorist, he is defending his state. 

 

It's really that basic. 

It is basically state sponsored murder.

 

quote from you "A person who authorizes that person's destruction is not a terrorist, he is defending his state." 

 

So, if the President of Iran authorises the destruction of the head of the USA nuclear weapons, by your basic reasoning he is simply defending his state. The same would apply if it were Isreal.

 

I always find it strange that the USA has a hatred of Iran, but is a strong supporter and ally of Saudi Arabia.

 

Yet SA was the country from which the terrorists came from to commit the 9/11 atrocity.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks

 

During the September 11 attacks of 2001, 2,977 people were killed, 19 hijackers committed murder–suicide, and more than 6,000 others were injured.[1][2] The immediate deaths included 265 on the four planes (including the terrorists), 2,606 in the World Trade Center and in the surrounding area, and 125 at the Pentagon.[3][4] The attacks were the deadliest terrorist act in world history, causing the death of over 500 more people than the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

 

Now the USA aids and supports SA, yet vilifies Iran which has never commited any agressive acts on US soil.

Edited November 28, 2020 by billd766
added extra text

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It is basically state sponsored murder.

 

quote from you "A person who authorizes that person's destruction is not a terrorist, he is defending his state." 

 

So, if the President of Iran authorises the destruction of the head of the USA nuclear weapons, by your basic reasoning he is simply defending his state. The same would apply if it were Isreal.

 

I always find it strange that the USA has a hatred of Iran, but is a strong supporter and ally of Saudi Arabia.

 

Yet SA was the country from which the terrorists came from to commit the 9/11 atrocity.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks

 

During the September 11 attacks of 2001, 2,977 people were killed, 19 hijackers committed murder–suicide, and more than 6,000 others were injured.[1][2] The immediate deaths included 265 on the four planes (including the terrorists), 2,606 in the World Trade Center and in the surrounding area, and 125 at the Pentagon.[3][4] The attacks were the deadliest terrorist act in world history, causing the death of over 500 more people than the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

 

Now the USA aids and supports SA, yet vilifies Iran which has never commited any agressive acts on US soil.

The U.S. embassy in Tehran wasn't chopped liver though. 

 

Also let's not be naive about Iran's history. They have certainly attacked a number of proxy targets not to mention explicit mass terrorism such as in Buenos Aires (not saying that was a U.S. target but highlights that they are not innocent babes). 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jingthing

[billd766]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The U.S. embassy in Tehran wasn't chopped liver though. 

Nor was the USA or the UK when they kicked out a legally elected government in 1953.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#:~:text=The 1953 Iranian coup d,orchestrated by the United States

 

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد‎), was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953,[5] orchestrated by the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project[6] or "Operation Ajax") and the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot"), and carried out by the Iranian military.

 

 

Please tell us all how many americans were murdered during the embassy siege?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

 

The crisis reached a climax after diplomatic negotiations failed to win the release of the hostages. Carter ordered the U.S. military to attempt a rescue mission – Operation Eagle Claw – using warships that included the USS Nimitz and USS Coral Sea, which were patrolling the waters near Iran. The failed attempt on April 24, 1980 resulted in the death of one Iranian civilian, and the accidental deaths of eight American servicemen after one of the helicopters crashed into a transport aircraft. United States Secretary of State Cyrus Vance resigned his position following the failure.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Nor was the USA or the UK when they kicked out a legally elected government in 1953.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#:~:text=The 1953 Iranian coup d,orchestrated by the United States

 

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد‎), was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953,[5] orchestrated by the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project[6] or "Operation Ajax") and the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot"), and carried out by the Iranian military.

 

 

Please tell us all how many americans were murdered during the embassy siege?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

 

The crisis reached a climax after diplomatic negotiations failed to win the release of the hostages. Carter ordered the U.S. military to attempt a rescue mission – Operation Eagle Claw – using warships that included the USS Nimitz and USS Coral Sea, which were patrolling the waters near Iran. The failed attempt on April 24, 1980 resulted in the death of one Iranian civilian, and the accidental deaths of eight American servicemen after one of the helicopters crashed into a transport aircraft. United States Secretary of State Cyrus Vance resigned his position following the failure.

I'm aware of the history but others might not be. 

It's a long standing conflict. 

That's why I call this latest aggressive action an act of war between nations with a long standing severe conflict.

In the context of the "morality" of wars, Iran has every right to retaliate with military action, though of course that's what Mr. Trump appears to be baiting them into probably to mess up any hope of talks between President Elect Biden and Iran. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Jingthing

[chainarong]

Interesting days indeed.

[ezzra]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The U.S. embassy in Tehran wasn't chopped liver though. 

 

Also let's not be naive about Iran's history. They have certainly attacked a number of proxy targets not to mention explicit mass terrorism such as in Buenos Aires (not saying that was a U.S. target but highlights that they are not innocent babes). 

Not to mention the Hezbollah, a Iran state sponsored, financed trained and sanctioned army of terrorists on the border of Israel numbering in the 10's of thousands under the guise of championing the Palestinian cause with the sole aim to destroy Israel if they can...

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

Not to mention the Hezbollah, a Iran state sponsored, financed trained and sanctioned army of terrorists on the border of Israel numbering in the 10's of thousands under the guise of championing the Palestinian cause with the sole aim to destroy Israel if they can...

You forget that Hezbollah was formed after the Israelis invaded and occupied southern Lebanon with the assistance of Christian militias. That was kind of a wakeup call to the local Shias, the largest sect in Lebanon and until that time quite passive.

[chainarong]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:44 AM, Sujo said:

In that case mossad should be labelled a terrorist organisation.

It depends on the perspective view. In Iran all western agency's are labeled terrorist's, then in the west Iran and other rouge nations are terrorists,  its called tit for tat.

[ThaiFelix]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:26 PM, billd766 said:

Nor was the USA or the UK when they kicked out a legally elected government in 1953.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état#:~:text=The 1953 Iranian coup d,orchestrated by the United States

 

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état (Persian: کودتای ۲۸ مرداد‎), was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953,[5] orchestrated by the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project[6] or "Operation Ajax") and the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot"), and carried out by the Iranian military.

 

 

Please tell us all how many americans were murdered during the embassy siege?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

 

The crisis reached a climax after diplomatic negotiations failed to win the release of the hostages. Carter ordered the U.S. military to attempt a rescue mission – Operation Eagle Claw – using warships that included the USS Nimitz and USS Coral Sea, which were patrolling the waters near Iran. The failed attempt on April 24, 1980 resulted in the death of one Iranian civilian, and the accidental deaths of eight American servicemen after one of the helicopters crashed into a transport aircraft. United States Secretary of State Cyrus Vance resigned his position following the failure.

Nice post but you are relying far too much on some in here accepting facts and logic.