Brexit talks still stuck because EU is asking too much, UK says

[luckyluke]

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

And mostly given us the same trade terms that the "Mighty EU" took decades to negotiate. Who'd have thought it?

 

Maybe appropriate to state :

 

"Thank you E.U., for building this relation with the different countries, we are now able to do business with, without the problems you than encountered."

 

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.

[GrandPapillon]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Mostly, yes. Which is great. 

 

Remainers were telling us that nobody would sign deals with rubbish little UK, that we'd be out on our own as Pariahs. No friends, No deals. Isolated in the world.

 

But then shock horror. An amazing turn of events. It turns out pretty much everyone except the EU is happy to do a fair FTA with us. And mostly given us the same trade terms that the "Mighty EU" took decades to negotiate. Who'd have thought it? ????

 

nothing has been signed yet, it's all declaration of intentions, basically posturing "hot air" ????

 

get ready for your embargo on January ????

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

nothing has been signed yet, it's all declaration of intentions, basically posturing "hot air" ????

 

get ready for your embargo on January ????

 

You know what you might be right, maybe they're all just playing with us and on January 1st they'll put their thumb on their nose, wiggle their fingers and declare "555 we were only kidding, fooled ya!". That's always happening in International negotiations .

 

Dream on ????.

 

Face it, to borrow heavily from Mark Twain, reports of the UK's death are greatly exaggerated. It must be killing The Bitters so see us signing all these deals. Isolated? Alone? Pariah? Hardly. 

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Lots?  Really....?

 

And if we are indeed making "lots" of deals that repalce and replciate the ones we already had while we were in the EU, we are merely maintaining what we already head.  But since we are makine "lots" we are perfoce not making "all", so are worse off. 

 

And that is for all the small deals we had with countries outside the EU...how much of our trade was with the EU, tariff and quota free?  That is not included in the "lots" is it?

 

PH

 

Yes lots really. Currently about 57 so far, and counting. That’s a fair old proportion of the world, and there are more coming too. 

 

There’s another quite big one in the offing but that’s been screwed around for a year or four. A group of 27 is being prevented from making a deal with us by a few with vested interests who think they have the upper hand. We can sit around the table until they realise they’re not getting what they want. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Remainers were telling us that nobody would sign deals with rubbish little UK, that we'd be out on our own as Pariahs. No friends, No deals. Isolated in the world.

Wasn’t it the other way round: Brexiteers telling us that they would negotiate all those wonderful new trade deals where in fact so far they are only recycling what the EU negotiated for them? 

 

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

And mostly given us the same trade terms that the "Mighty EU" took decades to negotiate. Who'd have thought it? 

What is it that you find so amazing? That copying something that someone else created is faster than coming up with something new yourself? Or that someone gives you the same terms as before as he can keep his status quo without giving something in return (while you’re having opportunity cost)? 

 

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Nonsesne.  The French have been doing quite a lot, actually, to reduce the numbers trying to cross. 

 

Perhaps you should put yourself in the soes of the Mayor of Calais right now, with the UK just across the channnel sticking two fingers up at your Country.   Up to now you have been working with a partner, but now.....

 

PH

Is the mayor of Calais really our partner? Or is he the last in a long chain of mayors all the way through France, plus other southern EU states, who are happy to pass the problem on to U.K.? 

They have been sticking two fingers up at us for years. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Wasn’t it the other way round: Brexiteers telling us that they would negotiate all those wonderful new trade deals where in fact so far they are only recycling what the EU negotiated for them? 

 

What is it that you find so amazing? That copying something that someone else created is faster than coming up with something new yourself? Or that someone gives you the same terms as before as he can keep his status quo without giving something in return (while you’re having opportunity cost)? 

 

But you guys were saying we'd be outcasts. We'd never get the same deal as the mighty EU because we're just a small racist isolationist backwater and the EU is a fine, mighty bloc that tells everyone else in the world what terms they must accept and they all do what they are told.

 

Now we've got the same deals, you're like "Pffft, it's no better than the EU has" ????. Classic Remainerism. Like the US trade deal wasn't worth anything to the UK until Biden suggested we might not get it and then it was made out that we were losing the greatest potential deal in the history of great deals. 

 

You Bitters make me laugh.????

[Loiner]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Or that someone gives you the same terms as before as he can keep his status quo

 

Now you get it. That’s what the other countries are doing for their trade with U.K.  

But the EU is asking too much. Much more than a trade deal, which is why we are better not making that deal. 

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Yes lots really. Currently about 57 so far, and counting. That’s a fair old proportion of the world, and there are more coming too. 

 

There’s another quite big one in the offing but that’s been screwed around for a year or four. A group of 27 is being prevented from making a deal with us by a few with vested interests who think they have the upper hand. We can sit around the table until they realise they’re not getting what they want. 

 

I thought that you were a member of the 'WTO rules, no problem' brigade?  Anyway ...

 

From the BBC website: 

 

"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of about 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.

 

So far, 27 of these existing deals, covering 57 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. The latest deal to be signed was with Singapore on 10 December." 

 

So as we currently stand, our net 'gain' in terms of trade deals made with other countries vs. our position at 31/1/20 is +/- -50 (+/-13 missing countries from EU deals + the 27 member states).

 

And that's success?

 

22 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

 

[Loiner]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I thought that you were a member of the 'WTO rules, no problem' brigade?  Anyway ...

 

From the BBC website: 

 

"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of about 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.

 

So far, 27 of these existing deals, covering 57 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. The latest deal to be signed was with Singapore on 10 December." 

 

So as we currently stand, our net 'gain' in terms of trade deals made with other countries vs. our position at 31/1/20 is +/- -50 (+/-13 missing countries from EU deals + the 27 member states).

 

And that's success?

 

 

FTAs are good. WTO is also acceptable. In the case of the EU, if they won’t make a FREE Trade Agreement without their own conditions, then WTO is the best. 

 

Yes, every one is a success over the Beeb, the EU and all you Remainer naysayers. 

[RayC]

10 minutes ago, Loiner said:

FTAs are good. WTO is also acceptable. In the case of the EU, if they won’t make a FREE Trade Agreement without their own conditions, then WTO is the best. 

 

Yes, every one is a success over the Beeb, the EU and all you Remainer naysayers. 

When, or more accurately if, the UK government has trade deals in place that exceed the value of what we had on 31/1/20, then you might have a case. Until then, naaw.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

But you guys were saying we'd be outcasts. We'd never get the same deal as the mighty EU because we're just a small racist isolationist backwater and the EU is a fine, mighty bloc that tells everyone else in the world what terms they must accept and they all do what they are told.

Like I said above, I don’t think that I ever said that. 
 

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Now we've got the same deals, you're like "Pffft, it's no better than the EU has" ????.

Which is a fact, no? 
 

 

[Gandtee]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

 

Yes lots really. Currently about 57 so far, and counting. That’s a fair old proportion of the world, and there are more coming too. 

 

There’s another quite big one in the offing but that’s been screwed around for a year or four. A group of 27 is being prevented from making a deal with us by a few with vested interests who think they have the upper hand. We can sit around the table until they realise they’re not getting what they want. 

I'm surprised you didn't mention Heinz Beans in your comment. 57 and counting. I'm pleased to read your upbeat opinion.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

 

Now you get it. That’s what the other countries are doing for their trade with U.K.  

Totally makes sense. Even for the Uk, as I’ve said here before, I think it’s a sensible approach to rollover existing deals so there’s time to negotiate a better one. That being said, it will be interesting to see whether and when the UK will be able to negotiate deals that are better than the EU one. 
 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

But the EU is asking too much. Much more than a trade deal, which is why we are better not making that deal. 

That is up to the UK to decide. 

[Loiner]

26 minutes ago, RayC said:

When, or more accurately if, the UK government has trade deals in place that exceed the value of what we had on 31/1/20, then you might have a case. Until then, naaw.

Free Trade Agreements with the whole word, except the EU who will be stuck on WTO.

[RayC]

55 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Free Trade Agreements with the whole word, except the EU who will be stuck on WTO.

So, excluding the already completed easy EU roll-outs and the 27 EU nations, that's 100+ trade deals to agree from scratch.

 

Given the current rate of progress, those should be 'oven ready' sometime in the 22nd century.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

So, excluding the already completed easy EU roll-outs and the 27 EU nations, that's 100+ trade deals to agree from scratch.

 

Given the current rate of progress, those should be 'oven ready' sometime in the 22nd century.

You don’t like it that they’re coming thick and fast now? What’s wrong with some free trade for the economy? Or is it that more of your forecasts of doom have been proved wrong?

 

57 agreements in less than a year after the actual Brexit date. Apart from the 27 stuck with the EU gang, the rest of the world should be done in about 18 months. 

 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Free Trade Agreements with the whole word, except the EU who will be stuck on WTO.

It's worth noting that the EU also doesn't have a comprehensive FTA with the US or China either.

 

Add the UK to that and there's no decent trade deal with 3 of the top 5 biggest economies. 

 

Given their behaviour with the UK over the last 12 months it's no surprise. 

 

Makes you wonder what they're really there for. Well, unless you're stupid enough to be blind to the federalist desire for a European superstate led by France and Germany that is.

 

Tried a military invasion and got defeated a couple of times? No worries, wait a few decades, and try to take over economically and politically. Taking a leaf out of China's book.

 

If only it waznt for zee pesky Britz ????.

 

 

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

Can Strawberries grow in Northern Morocco , I've just had a good business idea 

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Totally makes sense. Even for the Uk, as I’ve said here before, I think it’s a sensible approach to rollover existing deals so there’s time to negotiate a better one. That being said, it will be interesting to see whether and when the UK will be able to negotiate deals that are better than the EU one. 
 

That is up to the UK to decide. 

If these trad deals don't include the other party imposing their rules in the UK and requiring UK fish, they are automatically better than the proposed EU one.

 

Acceptance of any EU agreement is still up to the UK and the UK has decided no.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

You don’t like it that they’re coming thick and fast now? What’s wrong with some free trade for the economy? Or is it that more of your forecasts of doom have been proved wrong?

 

57 agreements in less than a year after the actual Brexit date. Apart from the 27 stuck with the EU gang, the rest of the world should be done in about 18 months. 

 

And the net value of these 57 agreements is v the net value of agreements within the EU?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, Loiner said:

If these trad deals don't include the other party imposing their rules in the UK and requiring UK fish, they are automatically better than the proposed EU one.

 

Acceptance of any EU agreement is still up to the UK and the UK has decided no.

Not if they include next to zero trade they aren’t.

 

Oh and by the way, China, India and the US have already given instructions to the UK on the subject of ‘internal matters’, and that’s before they even agree to talk about trade.

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the net value of these 57 agreements is v the net value of agreements within the EU?

 

 

 About 200 Billion. They are additional to whatever is left with the EU on WTO. They are all agreements that you all said would never be made because no country would deal with us anymore. 

 

They are also not inclusive of the rest of the world FTAs which are still in the pipeline. 

 

How do you  Remainers manage to get your doom forecasts so wrong every time?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 About 200 Billion. They are additional to whatever is left with the EU on WTO. They are all agreements that you all said would never be made because no country would deal with us anymore. 

 

They are also not inclusive of the rest of the world FTAs which are still in the pipeline. 

 

How do you  Remainers manage to get your doom forecasts so wrong every time?

I never once said agreements would not be made and I certainly did not quote values without evidence to back them up.

[Chomper Higgot]

I hear Johnson has ‘folded’. 

 

 

Great news, BRINO will do nicely.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I never once said agreements would not be made and I certainly did not quote values without evidence to back them up.

Ah, you forgot about the agreements yet to be made? 
Evidence? Google is your friend, if it's not still down.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Ah, you forgot about the agreements yet to be made? 
Evidence? Google is your friend, if it's not still down.

No, I never forget the ‘bird in the bush’.

 

’Evidence’ if you make a claim it’s for you to back it up. Own it or it owns you.

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No, I never forget the ‘bird in the bush’.

 

’Evidence’ if you make a claim it’s for you to back it up. Own it or it owns you.

Own what? There's no secret and it's out in the public domain if you want it, but I don't dance for you.
 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Own what? There's no secret and it's out in the public domain if you want it, but I don't dance for you.
 

Own backing up your own claims.

 

(Not getting all petulant when asked to do so would be nice too).

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Own backing up your own claims.

 

(Not getting all petulant when asked to do so would be nice too).

You want it, you go get it. I don't play your games.