mRNA Vaccine How Safe Is It

[4reaL]

Far from an anti-vaxxer and I'd line up for this inoculation but it seems the anti-vaxxer camp is already promoting how unsafe and 

untested this type of vaccine is.

How do you feel about it?

 

[canuckamuck]

I would be much happier to get Covid than to get the vaccine. Not interested in being a guinea pig.

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I would be much happier to get Covid than to get the vaccine. Not interested in being a guinea pig.

After a few weeks on a ventilator in a medically induced coma...you might think differently

[Crossy]

I think I'd rather wait for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine which is conventional in its approach.

 

mRNA looks extremely promising but it's a new technique and anything new has the potential for bugs.

 

If vaccination becomes a requirement to remain in Thailand - show me the needle.

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I think I'd rather wait for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine which is conventional in its approach.

 

mRNA looks extremely promising but it's a new technique and anything new has the potential for bugs.

 

True, but would those bugs not come out during the tests.

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

True, but would those bugs not come out during the tests.

 

The major ones should of course, but if you take a software analogy there are some applications that have been around in my business since the early 00's which have bugs which are only now becoming apparent. They are indeed pretty esoteric bugs but they are bugs none the less.

 

The UK is rolling out the Pfizer jab next week, we shall see how many people grow extra arms or whatever the conspiracy nuts are suggesting. Problems are (hopefully) going to be minor.

[tonray]

The likelihood of most countries requiring a vaccination cert just to enter is very high over the next 3 to 5 years. For those who refuse to vaccinate you may be denied at airports, borders and certainly your kids will not be allowed in school. Just a reality coming...get with it or prepare to become a hermit

[runamok27]

Long term safety is unknown but it most likely has been tested pretty rigorously in a lab environment. At the end of the day, it's a brand new method for creating a vaccine so it is not unusual that people are wary. It would have been far better if they could have developed a first of its kind mRNA vaccine where they could have taken the usual 5 to 10 years to test it. 

[pseudorabies]

mRNA.... DNA (e.g. GSK's vaccine) ..... I don't think it makes much difference. At least not to me.  My concern is focused on the actual proteins.  One of the ways that viruses evade the immune system is to make viral proteins "look" like host proteins.  This means that a vaccine (or infection) could trigger an autoimmune reaction that is self-sustaining.  So far it sounds like the vaccines are safe.  Unless I see any red flags reported I plan on getting vaccinated.

 

To put the mRNA issue in perspective, that's essentially what RNA viruses are - strands of protein encapsulated in some way to protect the genetic material from degradation and facilitate entry into cells.

[PPMMUU]

10 hours ago, pseudorabies said:

mRNA.... DNA (e.g. GSK's vaccine) ..... I don't think it makes much difference. At least not to me.  My concern is focused on the actual proteins.  One of the ways that viruses evade the immune system is to make viral proteins "look" like host proteins.  This means that a vaccine (or infection) could trigger an autoimmune reaction that is self-sustaining.  So far it sounds like the vaccines are safe.  Unless I see any red flags reported I plan on getting vaccinated.

 

To put the mRNA issue in perspective, that's essentially what RNA viruses are - strands of protein encapsulated in some way to protect the genetic material from degradation and facilitate entry into cells.

That won't happen if the manufacturer do not produce such lookalike protein. Why would they?

[pseudorabies]

4 hours ago, PPMMUU said:

That won't happen if the manufacturer do not produce such lookalike protein. Why would they?

That's a good question.

Without knowing the 3D structure of the viral proteins AND that of every protein in the host's proteome it's hard to tell apriori what the cross-reactivity might be. So we're kind of flying blind in that sense.

An example here would be the Pandemrix flu vaccine from about 10 years ago where the protein prep was contaminated by a small amount of viral nucleoprotein. This triggered an autoimmune reaction in some people against a receptor expressed by neurons involved in regulating sleep-wake cycle. As a result some people developed narcolepsy. I don't remember if it was permanent or not.

 

But again, as long as I don't hear of any red flags, I look forward to getting the vaccine.

[TSF]

22 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I would be much happier to get Covid than to get the vaccine. Not interested in being a guinea pig.

yep, long covid sounds delightful: chronic fatigue, spend most of your day on the bed with heart palpitations, damaged kidneys & liver (probably never enjoy a drink again, or for many months anyway) no sexual desires and no energy to have sex. Constant headaches and mental lapses.

[Boomer6969]

I'll pay whatever they'll ask, hopefully at my next visit to Bumrungrad next February.

[Surelynot]

10 hours ago, TSF said:

yep, long covid sounds delightful: chronic fatigue, spend most of your day on the bed with heart palpitations, damaged kidneys & liver (probably never enjoy a drink again, or for many months anyway) no sexual desires and no energy to have sex. Constant headaches and mental lapses.

Sounds like the wife

[Surelynot]

Does anyone else think it is staggeringly selfish for people to take a step back, let the rest of us have the vaccine from which they will then benefit through herd immunity?

 

I am all for a vaccine passport.....travel, bars, restaurants...

[mommysboy]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:06 AM, robblok said:

True, but would those bugs not come out during the tests.

 

No, simply because we don't have long term data. We can gauge vector vaccines because they are nothing new.  

 

I do feel the mRNA vaccines are almost certainly safe, but we are talking about mass vaccination of already healthy people.  In the normal course of events the first real jab would not be administered until 5 or even 10 years down the line.

 

So like some others- it's fingers crossed for the Oxford vaccine.

 

(Incidentally the 95% reported protection in the American vaccines may be open to question depending on the definition of infection.)

Edited December 8, 2020 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Does anyone else think it is staggeringly selfish for people to take a step back, let the rest of us have the vaccine from which they will then benefit through herd immunity?

 

I am all for a vaccine passport.....travel, bars, restaurants...

 

No, I don't think that's so.  In the UK for example someone under 60 won't be offered the vaccine for a few months, and I imagine it will be the same in most countries.  In fact, I'd say it would be entirely selfish to take a vaccine that might be needed by someone who is at high risk.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

 

No, I don't think that's so.  In the UK for example someone under 60 won't be offered the vaccine for a few months, and I imagine it will be the same in most countries.  In fact, I'd say it would be entirely selfish to take a vaccine that might be needed by someone who is at high risk.

Well I would agree whole heartedly with what you say.....there is a priority list (I am 7th in the UK)...I am talking about people refusing to have the vaccine...stepping back and benefiting from those that step up to the plate....chinless cowards.

[jak2002003]

Posters saying it's so safe and can't wait to get it....how can you think this when there is not yet any long term data?

 

There have been vaccines that years later caused horrific side effects such as serious birth defects and disabilities in children. 

 

Also we don't even understand the virus so how can we be so sure about the vaccine? It has been said people can get the virus, recover and then be reinfected again. If that is true what real use is the vaccine? 

 

We have not been told how long the vaccine assures immunity. I have read it could be as little as 3 months. So perhaps we will get a jab in the arm at immigration office every time we do our 90 day report.????

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Posters saying it's so safe and can't wait to get it....how can you think this when there is not yet any long term data?

 

I agree that there is no long term data and thus there must be an element of risk in the unknown.

I’m certainly quite reticent to let my son have a vaccine so early on in its life cycle, however, if it means the difference between being permitted to go to school or not then my resolve may change quite quickly. 

 

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

There have been vaccines that years later caused horrific side effects such as serious birth defects and disabilities in children. 

 

Which ones? which vaccinations have cased horrific sides effects such as serious birth defects and disabilities?

 

Note: Thalidamide was not a vaccination - it was an abhorrent misunderstood and used to treat morning sickness. Its still used today to treat skin conditions including skin cancer.

 

There are many viruses which can cause birth defects if contracted by a pregnant female [such as Toxoplasmosis, cytomegalovirus, varicella, rubella, and lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus]

 

There are also some type of medication and some vaccines which pregnant women cannot / should not / are advised not to take during pregnancy [Chickenpox (varicella), Measles, Mumps and Rubella (MMR), Shingles vaccines].

 

There is nothing to indicate an elevated risk of birth defects among women who were vaccinated a month or more before becoming pregnant (well, I can’t find anything anyway).

 

 

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Also we don't even understand the virus so how can we be so sure about the vaccine? It has been said people can get the virus, recover and then be reinfected again. If that is true what real use is the vaccine? 

 

We have not been told how long the vaccine assures immunity. I have read it could be as little as 3 months. So perhaps we will get a jab in the arm at immigration office every time we do our 90 day report.????

 

The vaccine can limit the symptoms and reduce the impact in those who may otherwise suffer more severely. It also may mean the difference between being contagious for 10 days or just a couple. Some people may get re-infected more readily than others, others many realise 2-3 years immunity.

 

I too have read that the vaccines may only be effective for 90 days. Does that mean we are going to have to get a vaccine every 3 months ? - I suspect with continued research the effectiveness of the vaccines may improve. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

One of my naked arms is willing and ready to be pricked by whichever type of vaccine I can get first. Most people in the world and that definitely includes in Thailand won't have a choice between the vaccines.

[talahtnut]

A mate in the next village got covid quite bad, but he had a huge line of coke and it sorted him out.

[Virt]

There are several articles about the side effects from both Moderna's and Pfizers vaccines and yes there are side effects ,and some reports they had a severe case of fever, vomitting , chills ,joint pain, headache etc, but it only lasted a day or so.

We should get plenty of stories from UK the next week, so we know if that's the overall side effects.

 

If that's the worst that will happen, it's a small price to pay, if we want the normal life back.

 

Heck, the side effects from my last tenatus vaccination took a week to disappear last month. 

It felt like someone beat my arm with a baseball bat.

The regular flu vaccine only cause a tiny bit of pain in the area it was injected.

 

I make sure i get my covid shots on a friday, so i don't have to take a sickday at work ????

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, Virt said:

There are several articles about the side effects from both Moderna's and Pfizers vaccines and yes there are side effects ,and some reports they had a severe case of fever, vomitting , chills ,joint pain, headache etc, but it only lasted a day or so.

We should get plenty of stories from UK the next week, so we know if that's the overall side effects.

 

If that's the worst that will happen, it's a small price to pay, if we want the normal life back.

 

Heck, the side effects from my last tenatus vaccination took a week to disappear last month. 

It felt like someone beat my arm with a baseball bat.

The regular flu vaccine only cause a tiny bit of pain in the area it was injected.

 

I make sure i get my covid shots on a friday, so i don't have to take a sickday at work ????

 

 

I don’t think anyone would be too concerned with feeling a little ‘crappy’ for a day or two. 

With all the vaccinations I’ve had over the years I’ve been told I may feel unwell for up to a week etc (The typhoid, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio etc) - Not once have I felt anything, hardly an ache of the arm etc. 

 

I play football two-three times per week. My body disagrees with that and I spend half the time with burning tendons and aching legs, and then there’s a night out or two followed by the compulsory hangover etc etc...

 

Thus, any non-damaging and non-painful temporary symptoms are nothing to worry about at all. 

 

 

It's the long term unknown which has some people a little concerned along with a certain degree of distrust of politicians and multinational corporations who’ve become untouchable while developing a vaccine in record time. 

 

 

 

 

 

[sirineou]

What is more dangerous ,physically,  socially , and economically. Taking the vaccine or not taking it? 

For me it is a very simple decision, I will take it the first day it is available to me. 

[bartender100]

Anyone who refuses the free (as in the UK) vaccine, then goes on to get COVID-19 and requires hospital treatment, should pay for it out of their own pocket, specially if they are in the over 65yo age group

[mommysboy]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

One of my naked arms is willing and ready to be pricked by whichever type of vaccine I can get first. Most people in the world and that definitely includes in Thailand won't have a choice between the vaccines.

 

And indeed all three appear to be very safe, and equally effective at preventing severe illness.  Job done really.

 

 

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don’t think anyone would be too concerned with feeling a little ‘crappy’ for a day or two. 

With all the vaccinations I’ve had over the years I’ve been told I may feel unwell for up to a week etc (The typhoid, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio etc) - Not once have I felt anything, hardly an ache of the arm etc. 

 

I play football two-three times per week. My body disagrees with that and I spend half the time with burning tendons and aching legs, and then there’s a night out or two followed by the compulsory hangover etc etc...

 

Thus, any non-damaging and non-painful temporary symptoms are nothing to worry about at all. 

 

 

It's the long term unknown which has some people a little concerned along with a certain degree of distrust of politicians and multinational corporations who’ve become untouchable while developing a vaccine in record time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Not once have I felt anything, hardly an ache of the arm etc. '

 

Yes but you are just one person. I'm much the same, but we have to recognize that upwards of 50% do experience a reaction, albeit relatively mild.

 

Actually, all through my life I've also felt a bit crappy more than I've felt perfectly healthy, and a lot of that has to do with hard exercise, boozing, etc.

[Virt]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don’t think anyone would be too concerned with feeling a little ‘crappy’ for a day or two. 

With all the vaccinations I’ve had over the years I’ve been told I may feel unwell for up to a week etc (The typhoid, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio etc) - Not once have I felt anything, hardly an ache of the arm etc. 

 

I play football two-three times per week. My body disagrees with that and I spend half the time with burning tendons and aching legs, and then there’s a night out or two followed by the compulsory hangover etc etc...

 

Thus, any non-damaging and non-painful temporary symptoms are nothing to worry about at all. 

 

 

It's the long term unknown which has some people a little concerned along with a certain degree of distrust of politicians and multinational corporations who’ve become untouchable while developing a vaccine in record time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we take the current vaccines on the market that we used for centuries,  almost all side effects were discovered within a few months,

so if the new vaccines follow the same pattern, i'm not to worried, but persons with a well known history of allergy should maybe wait a bit with Pfizers vaccine or wait for another vaccine using another technology?

 

The 2 that got allegic reactions worked in the health care system and  are on the way to recovery, so sounds like it's not a major issue, but still a thing that allergic people should be aware off.

 

I expect the anti vaxers will try to blow this out of proportions ????

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/dec/09/brexit-boris-johnson-trade-talks-eu-covid-coronavirus-latest-updates

 

"UK regulators have issued a warning that people who have a history of “significant” allergic reactions should not currently receive the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine after two people who had the jab on Tuesday had allergic reactions, PA Media is reporting."

 

If  

[watgate]

Being the furthest thing from an expert I am concerned nevertheless in so far as my understanding is that viruses are known to mutate so I am wondering what could happen if the corona virus mutates.  Would it necessitate another vaccine shot being required or necessitate a modification of the current vaccines coming to market?