Sweden's pandemic experiment ends amid spiking coronavirus cases

[rabang]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:04 PM, placeholder said:

 

 

Showing quite a decrease despite of people saying the curve is only going up up up.

[ExpatOilWorker]

24 minutes ago, rabang said:

Showing quite a decrease despite of people saying the curve is only going up up up.

 

Oh, boy. Placeholder will be on you in a minute.  Meanwhile, read the below.

 

COVID-19 deaths are reported by the Swedish government by the date on which the death occurred.

Since there is a lag between the time a person dies and the time the death is reported, the death counts for the most recent period are always incomplete. They are often most incomplete for the latest 2 to 5 days, but can be incomplete for 10 days or more. This undercount in recent days means that they often appear to be falling; but when this is later completed, data shows that more deaths were occurring during that period.

This means that for the last 10 days of data, death counts in Sweden must only be interpreted as incomplete measures of mortality.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-sweden-death-reporting

[balo]

Almost 100 deaths daily now , and the hospitals in Stockholm have reached full capacity!   

We have just reached 8000 deaths, so that means last 2 months 3000 died from COVID-19 -

It is safe to say that Sweden has failed their strategy, as the King also mentioned in a recent interview.

And guess what ?  Yesterday , for the first time the government with new stricter restrictions, alcohol sale banned after 8 PM, restaurants , libraries, and gyms will close,  

During rush hours you have to wear a mask on public transport.  So Sweden suddenly are doing what the rest of Europe been doing for 8 months!  Their failed strategy only cost them 8000 lives. ....  


 

[placeholder]

The mortality data reporting for Sweden'shas changed. Now it's being reported here the say way other countries do.

As of November 30, 2020, due to our switch to Johns Hopkins University as our main data source for COVID-19 cases and deaths, the contents of this post no longer apply to the data presented on Our World in Data. Unlike our previous source the European CDC, Johns Hopkins University collects and publishes COVID-19 deaths in Sweden by date of report.

Why do COVID-19 deaths in Sweden always appear to decrease in the last 10 days? - Our World in Data

 

Coronavirus Pandemic Data Explorer - Our World in Data

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by placeholder

[ExpatOilWorker]

As of December 11 (14) 27:

December 1: 32 (51) 69

December 2: 33 (52) 65

December 3: 29 (51) 74

December 4: 26 (37) 67

December 5: 14 (19) 42

December 6: 36 (44) 78

December 7: 7 (19) 49

December 8: 14 (24) 43

December 9: 4 (15) 60 

December 10: 21 (7) 67

December 11: N/A (18) 56

 

Placeholder was right and sadly a lot of souls was lost to the Swedish experiment.

[scammed]

2020 is finally over so we can compare to other years just how much of an impact

CV19 had

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

[farang51]

8 minutes ago, scammed said:

2020 is finally over so we can compare to other years just how much of an impact

CV19 had

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

 

I guess that if you had linked to a comparison with numbers from earlier than December 11th, COVID would seem to have even less impact. So, maybe we should wait to get the death count for all year before comparing with the death count for all the previous years.

 

By the way, even when you have the numbers for the whole year, you cannot compare the numbers directly. There may be less road deaths in 2020 because of less traffic, less deaths from the flu because of social distancing. More deaths from suicide. Etc.

[scammed]

1 hour ago, farang51 said:

 

I guess that if you had linked to a comparison with numbers from earlier than December 11th, COVID would seem to have even less impact. So, maybe we should wait to get the death count for all year before comparing with the death count for all the previous years.

 

By the way, even when you have the numbers for the whole year, you cannot compare the numbers directly. There may be less road deaths in 2020 because of less traffic, less deaths from the flu because of social distancing. More deaths from suicide. Etc.

the covid data is so unreliable i have given up completely on them

and will from now on only use yearly death comparison

 

yes, i look forward complete year, but this data wont deviate

Edited January 3, 2021 by scammed

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, scammed said:

the covid data is so unreliable i have given up completely on them

and will from now on only use yearly death comparison

Why not hospital occupancy and number of cancelled operations (cancer, heart, ...)

[scammed]

Just now, oldhippy said:

Why not hospital occupancy and number of cancelled operations (cancer, heart, ...)

its muddy murky water, i wont use detail data any longer, they are just too unreliable, i stick to per year as compared to other years

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, scammed said:

its muddy murky water, i wont use detail data any longer, they are just too unreliable, i stick to per year as compared to other years

I agree with you that we are overwhelmed with statistics.

The number of patients in hospitals seems however to be a clear indication.

[farang51]

14 minutes ago, scammed said:

yes, i look forward complete year, but this data wont deviate

Well, if you take the average deaths per day up to December 11th and add 20 times that, you will get close to 95.000 deaths for 2020. That's a bit more than even the highest death numbers from the previous 10 years.

 

10 minutes ago, scammed said:

its muddy murky water, i wont use detail data any longer, they are just too unreliable, i stick to per year as compared to other years

I am not sure closing your eyes because it gets too murky will give a more precise result. There's a lot of factors to consider; I am sure that in a couple of years, the experts will be able to go through the data and give us a more precise view of the costs of the virus.

 

[rabas]

52 minutes ago, scammed said:

he covid data is so unreliable i have given up completely on them and will from now on only use yearly death comparison

Data is reliable when analysed correctly.  But this data does not support the story you may want it to. 

 

The graph is from the Statistica software company and not official. As farang51 said, the 2020 bar is not a full year so cannot be 'yearly data'. The other problem is that Sweden delays reporting death statistics, which Statistica probably ignores. So the real problem is using bogus data.

[scammed]

28 minutes ago, rabas said:

So the real problem is using bogus data.

yes, which the data up to this point has been.

i have no issue either way when data from last year is complete and we can compare to other years if 2020 was an anomaly or not,

the question is, will you confess 2020 was like any other year if death was

strikingly similar to any other of the past 10 years ?

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, scammed said:

2020 is finally over so we can compare to other years just how much of an impact

CV19 had

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/

Yeah, 8,000 deaths due to CV19 in Sweden in 2020.  Way more than any of it's nearest neighbors.  A failed experiment for sure.  That's for pointing this out!

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Data is reliable when analysed correctly.  But this data does not support the story you may want it to. 

 

The graph is from the Statistica software company and not official. As farang51 said, the 2020 bar is not a full year so cannot be 'yearly data'. The other problem is that Sweden delays reporting death statistics, which Statistica probably ignores. So the real problem is using bogus data.

Covid deniers will go after anything to discredit the severity of this pandemic.  These types of people are causing huge problems in our society.  Should put them in a reeducation camp.

[rabas]

41 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah, 8,000 deaths due to CV19 in Sweden in 2020.  Way more than any of it's nearest neighbors.  A failed experiment for sure.  That's for pointing this out!

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

 

8000!  That's precisely what is missing from the bogus 2020 column considering the two factors I and franag51 mentioned. So, scammed or anyone could have accessed this data accurately showing Swedish deaths from coronavirus.

[Jeffr2]

18 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

8000!  That's precisely what is missing from the bogus 2020 column considering the two factors I and franag51 mentioned. So, scammed or anyone could have accessed this data accurately showing Swedish deaths from coronavirus.

Scammed is a covid denier.   What would you expect from him?

[balo]

Today Sweden will reach 9000 deaths since the pandemic started in March,  lucky for them vaccines has arrived. 

[bkk6060]

Sweden's philosophy of "freedom" and "The Swedish way" unfortunately seem to have turned out to be a big Covid failure.

[James105]

54 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sweden's philosophy of "freedom" and "The Swedish way" unfortunately seem to have turned out to be a big Covid failure.

 

I notice that a lot of lockdown fanatics are particularly gleeful about a so called failure here, but are they really doing so badly compared to other countries such as the UK, Belgium and Spain for example who have implemented harsh lockdowns?   It seems they are doing about the same or better which suggests that lockdowns do not really make any difference and humans have as much chance of controlling a virus as they have of controlling the tide.    

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

I notice that a lot of lockdown fanatics are particularly gleeful about a so called failure here, but are they really doing so badly compared to other countries such as the UK, Belgium and Spain for example who have implemented harsh lockdowns?   It seems they are doing about the same or better which suggests that lockdowns do not really make any difference and humans have as much chance of controlling a virus as they have of controlling the tide.    

None of us are gleeful.  It's horrible what happened there.  They tried an experiment, and it failed.  They admit this.

 

Compare them to their immediate neighbors.  You can't compare them to Belgium or Spain. Just doesn't work.

 

Do a comparison to their immediate neighbors.  Both in terms of the economy and deaths.  You'll see how they failed.  Big time. Sadly, CV19 deniers will argue about this.

[rabang]

On 1/4/2021 at 12:53 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Covid deniers will go after anything to discredit the severity of this pandemic.  These types of people are causing huge problems in our society.  Should put them in a reeducation camp.

 

Unemployment, debt, rising poverty and social problems, mental health issues and draconian restrictions, growing divisions between people, whole industries going bust, etc. don't seem to me minor issues in our societies but if someone is not hiding under a bed all the time that is a reason to put people in concentration camps. I don't know if you were just joking with the last statement but I am sure there are many who would be dead serious about it.

[EdrigoSalvadore]

The swedish currency has been booming since this started, which says that other countries have faith in sweden´s strategy. Don´t believe all the fake news, watch the currency.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, rabang said:

 

Unemployment, debt, rising poverty and social problems, mental health issues and draconian restrictions, growing divisions between people, whole industries going bust, etc. don't seem to me minor issues in our societies but if someone is not hiding under a bed all the time that is a reason to put people in concentration camps. I don't know if you were just joking with the last statement but I am sure there are many who would be dead serious about it.

Hiding under a bed?  Seriously?  Come on.  That's what CV19 deniers say.  And yes, they are a huge detriment to our society as they spread their lies and misinformation.  Sadly, many fall for these things. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

5 hours ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

The swedish currency has been booming since this started, which says that other countries have faith in sweden´s strategy. Don´t believe all the fake news, watch the currency.

Do a comparison to Sweden's nearest neighbors.  Their shut down, have way fewer deaths, and their economies are doing just a bit better.  Proves trying to achieve herd immunity naturally was a failure.  As they now admit.

[rabang]

16 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Hiding under a bed?  Seriously?  Come on.  That's what CV19 deniers say.  And yes, they are a huge detriment to our society as they spread their lies and misinformation.  Sadly, many fall for these things. 

 

 

Criticizing this irrational response to Covid is not being a denier.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, rabang said:

Criticizing this irrational response to Covid is not being a denier.

Agreed!  But using terms like 'hiding under your bed' doesn't help.  We're trying to stay safe, and to protect others.  We all in this together and it's not easy.

 

The friends and relatives of the almost 2MM who have died might agree with me.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Sweden just had 277 Covid death in a single day.

That would be the equivalent to nearly 9,000 death if scaled up to the US population size.

Sweden did a noble experiment, but yes, it was a failure. 

[EdrigoSalvadore]

22 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Sweden just had 277 Covid death in a single day.

That would be the equivalent to nearly 9,000 death if scaled up to the US population size.

Sweden did a noble experiment, but yes, it was a failure. 

I believe a lot of those cases came from blowing people lungs up with ventilators, and treating them poorly (not feeding the patients enough nutrition, and giving them insane amounts of anesthetic). We have a lot of elderly with heart diseases and diabetic as well. If we compare the deaths to a average year in Sweden, is it barely any higher. Cheers