Explainer: Can anything stop Trump from pardoning his family or even himself?

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Earlier post from Jeffr2: "You don't seem to understand that a vast majority pardoned by Obama were in jail for drug charges.  Overly severe jail terms due to the failed war on drugs."

Earlier post from myself: "And how many of those were involved in inquiries/proceedings against the president?"

Some just don't get it...

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Nout said:

Does anybody remember this kind of debate when Obama pardoned hundreds of his supporters?

Never happened. The vast majority of Obama's pardons csme as a result of the recommendations of the indrpendent pardon office in the Dept. of Justice. Stop making things up.

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Never happened. The vast majority of Obama's pardons csme as a result of the recommendations of the indrpendent pardon office in the Dept. of Justice. Stop making things up.

Stop making things up.....

 

As the old saying goes, they can't help it, "because it's in their nature".

 

[Nout]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Never happened. The vast majority of Obama's pardons csme as a result of the recommendations of the indrpendent pardon office in the Dept. of Justice. Stop making things up.

I am making nothing up. Did Obama pardon over a thousand people or not...? This is a yes or no question.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Nout said:

I am making nothing up. Did Obama pardon over a thousand people or not...? This is a yes or no question.

Here is your original post on the subject

"Does anybody remember this kind of debate when Obama pardoned hundreds of his supporters?"

 

They were not his supporters. Stop making things up.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Nout said:

I am making nothing up. Did Obama pardon over a thousand people or not...? This is a yes or no question.

No.

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, Nout said:

I am making nothing up. Did Obama pardon over a thousand people or not...? This is a yes or no question.

And you're confusing pardons with commutations. He only pardoned 212 people. He also commuted the sentences of 1715 people. But they were not his supporters.

 

" Of the acts of clemency, 1,715 were commutations (including 504 life sentences) and 212 were pardons.[2][3] Most individuals granted executive clemency by Obama had been convicted on drug charges,[4] and had received lengthy and sometimes mandatory sentences at the height of the war on drugs.[5]"

 

List of people granted executive clemency by Barack Obama - Wikipedia

Edited December 27, 2020 by placeholder

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Nout said:

I am making nothing up. Did Obama pardon over a thousand people or not...? This is a yes or no question.

Educate yourself:

Trump’s Pardons Have Been Sparse and Self-Serving — And That’s Without Even Pardoning His Kids

Trump’s Pardons Have Been Sparse and Self-Serving — And That’s Without Even Pardoning His Kids | FiveThirtyEight

[Nout]

14 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

I consider the election of DT and the rabid supporters he engendered to be a referendum on the sorry state of education in the US.  Weaponized ignorance.

 

 

Does that mean anyone who votes Republican is ignorant and uneducated?

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

Does that mean anyone who votes Republican is ignorant and uneducated?

Those that vote for trump are.

[Spatiumus]

On 12/26/2020 at 3:29 PM, Jeffr2 said:

No criminal charge yet, but plenty of loses in court through the company he owns.  Fraud is the biggie.

 

And MANY cases upcoming.  Starting Jan 20th, it's going to be fun.

So he's been charged with nothing and you're getting excited about what your crystal ball is telling you!   

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Spatiumus said:

So he's been charged with nothing and you're getting excited about what your crystal ball is telling you!   

He is president and he can not be charged with anything , All this is about to change when Biden becomes president.  

[Spatiumus]

On 12/26/2020 at 2:11 PM, placeholder said:

On 12/26/2020 at 1:47 PM, Spatiumus said:

"The very second it was decided that he had lost this election..."

When was that decided and by whom...you?   You don't quite understand the US electoral process, do you?

Given the Trump's team record in the courts, it's clear that if anyone doesn't understand the electoral process, it's them. And people who believe in the validity of their cause.

Well, TSF, the poster I was responding to, sure doesn't, he seems to think that Trump has already been announced as the loser in the election which is not the case as no winner has been announced by the only agency that has the authority to do that!

 

 

 

[Sujo]

31 minutes ago, Spatiumus said:

Well, TSF, the poster I was responding to, sure doesn't, he seems to think that Trump has already been announced as the loser in the election which is not the case as no winner has been announced by the only agency that has the authority to do that!

 

 

 

Who won?

[Jeffr2]

7 hours ago, Spatiumus said:

Thanks, but what's that got to do with my question?   Has Trump been charged with anything?

Yes,  read up on the NY AG and the charges they have for Trump.  Can't wait for January 21st.  Should be fun.

[Spatiumus]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yes,  read up on the NY AG and the charges they have for Trump.  Can't wait for January 21st.  Should be fun.

There have been no charges made relating to that investigation, perhaps you should read up on it.

[Spatiumus]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

11 hours ago, Spatiumus said:

Well, TSF, the poster I was responding to, sure doesn't, he seems to think that Trump has already been announced as the loser in the election which is not the case as no winner has been announced by the only agency that has the authority to do that!

I'm guessing you read The Epoch Times?

Regardless of what you think I may read, what I said is fact, you may not like it but there it is.  Perhaps you should do some reading?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Spatiumus

[Jeffr2]

26 minutes ago, Spatiumus said:

There have been no charges made relating to that investigation, perhaps you should read up on it.

You are aware that you can't indict a sitting president.  Jan 21st, all bets are off.

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/ny-state-of-politics/2020/12/03/ag-james--trump-investigation-will-follow-facts

"Last year, after Michael Cohen’s testimony, our office opened an investigation into the financial dealings of the Trump Organization. That investigation continues today.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Spatiumus said:

There have been no charges made relating to that investigation, perhaps you should read up on it.

So DoJ policy is 'sitting president can not be charged', and you use him not being charged as proof he has done nothing wrong. Very 'smart' reasoning.

[Tie Dye Samurai]

On 12/24/2020 at 5:48 PM, Pattaya Spotter said:

A President is neither above or below the law, therefore, why would they have any less right to a pardon than anyone else?

Your answer is in your question: Because pardoning himself puts him above the law...in essence it makes him the law. You are quoted above as saying nobody is above the law. If you can pardon yourself, you can commit any federal crime you want to....you are above the law. The very fact that you would support anything less than he can not pardon himself speaks volumes about how you would place Dear President over country.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Tie Dye Samurai

[Tie Dye Samurai]

18 hours ago, Spatiumus said:

So he's been charged with nothing and you're getting excited about what your crystal ball is telling you!   

I am thinking they are excited about what common sense is telling them and you are getting defensive because the clock is ticking down on Dear President and there is not a pardon to protect him on the state level from the terrible swift sword of justice in The Great State Of New York. 

[Jeffr2]

14 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Your answer is in your question: Because pardoning himself puts him above the law...in essence it makes him the law. You are quoted above as saying nobody is above the law. If you can pardon yourself, you can commit any federal crime you want to....you are above the law. The very fact that you would support anything less that he can not pardon himself speaks volumes about how you would place Dear President over country.

And not being able to charge a sitting president means he's above the law.  Trump supporters don't seem to understand this.

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Your answer is in your question: Because pardoning himself puts him above the law...in essence it makes him the law.

The pardon, by its very definition, is a magisterial act unreviewable by Congress or the courts. It is therefore, in a sense, not a part of the "law" and exists outside it (or as you phrase it "makes [the President] the law.") It is an extraordinary power granted the president by the Constitution, which is analogous to the right of Kings at the time of the Constitution's drafting to make decisions on justice in the best interest of the nation. If President Trump thought granting himself such a pardon would serve the nation's interest, it would be within his right and power to do so. (This is my opinion...there is no Supreme Court decision on the question and the court might not even have jurisdiction to take up such a case.)

Edited December 28, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The pardon, by its very definition, is a magisterial act unreviewable by Congress or the courts. It is therefore, in a sense, not a part of the "law" and exists outside it (or as you phrase it "makes [the President] the law.") It is an extraordinary power granted the president by the Constitution, which is analogous to the right of Kings at the time of the Constitution's drafting to make decisions on justice in the best interest of the nation. If President Trump thought granting himself such a pardon would serve the nation's interest, it would be within his right and power to do so. (This is my opinion...there is no Supreme Court decision on the question and the court might not even have jurisdiction to take up such a case.)

The Dept. of Justice disagrees with you:

Trump says he has the 'absolute right' to pardon himself, but the Justice Department's website disagrees

Trump can't pardon himself, according to Justice Department website - Business Insider

[billd766]

13 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yes,  read up on the NY AG and the charges they have for Trump.  Can't wait for January 21st.  Should be fun.

Once Trump becomes non POTUS he will be allocated a Secret Service body guard. Purely out of curiosity, what might happen should he be arrested on State charges ( and perhaps on Federal charges too). Would they be under orders (whose I have no idea) and try to prevent Trump from being arrested, or be permitted/ordered to step aside should that happen?

 

Would the same apply to his immediate family as well? If they are pardoned that would get them off Federal charges but not State/civil charges.

Edited December 28, 2020 by billd766
Added extra text

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Once Trump becomes non POTUS he will be allocated a Secret Service body guard. Purely out of curiosity, what might happen should he be arrested on State charges ( and perhaps on Federal charges too). Would they be under orders (whose I have no idea) and try to prevent Trump from being arrested, or be permitted/ordered to step aside should that happen?

 

Would the same apply to his immediate family as well? If they are pardoned that would get them off Federal charges but not State/civil charges.

Of course they would defer to the justice system.

[billd766]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Of course they would defer to the justice system.

Surely that would put them in a dilemma as their duty is to protect Trump against everything even at the cost of their own lives?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Surely that would put them in a dilemma as their duty is to protect Trump against everything even at the cost of their own lives?

No!

They work for the government. 

They are not private army body guards.

Frankly I find your question ridiculous..

 

Of course if he is ever sent to prison he would still be an ex president and would surely be unusually well protected in the hoosegow.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Jingthing

[Tie Dye Samurai]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Surely that would put them in a dilemma as their duty is to protect Trump against everything even at the cost of their own lives?

Somehow I dont think him being in custody is a threat to his well being...after all he is in custody of the legal system of the State of New York and it is implied he would not be in harm's way. Protecting him does not mean he can not be detained or incarcerated...they would just step up the guards at his cell door.....the same as if he was in the hospital....rofl (God I hope this happens)

[Scott]

Replies to a removed post have been hidden.