Bitcoin or Gold?

[guzzi850m2]

53 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

so what you invest in, I guess you will never share that with TV

No not really, but I made some good money in bio tech stocks. They are quite risky so you have to do a lot of research.

 

I think "green" stocks and ETF's are something to look for here in 2021.

Edited January 6, 2021 by guzzi850m2

[guzzi850m2]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Taking profits of 128% can never be bad. Btc has gained approximately 200% every year for the last 10 years. 

I recently started using etoro, I don't like it and crypto assets can't be taken out/sent to another exchange, only exchanged for fiat. I believe Paypal is an easy way to buy certain cryptos but again they can't be sent anywhere, yet. 

Yes agreed, 128% is great.

 

Well eToro is a somewhat odd fish and I solely use it for crypto, I use Saxo bank in Singapore for stock trading.

 

I plan to just leave my crypto holdings in eToro as see how they end up in say 3-5 years time.

 

Okay in my crypto portfolio (one holding) I have set a traling stop loss but it's very high due to large volatility in crypto.

 

My EOS.X don't have any because of a modest 250$ investment so they can go to hell or the sky, I take the last, LOL

 

As I mentioned before I am not investing more money in crypto but are off-course happy with the fat profit and I just let it run from here on.

Edited January 6, 2021 by guzzi850m2

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Yes agreed, 128% is great.

 

Well eToro is a somewhat odd fish and I solely use it for crypto, I use Saxo bank in Singapore for stock trading.

 

I plan to just leave my crypto holdings in eToro as see how they end up in say 3-5 years time.

 

Okay in my crypto portfolio (one holding) I have set a traling stop loss but it's very high due to large volatility in crypto.

 

My EOS.X don't have any because of a modest 250$ investment so they can go to hell or the sky, I take the last, LOL

 

As I mentioned before I am not investing more money in crypto but are off-course happy with the fat profit and I just let it run from here on.

I used Maybank when I bought stock.

 

In 3-5 years, you could be pretty rich. I see the US treasury just cleared crypto to be used in banks! 

[Bender Rodriguez]

1 hour ago, guzzi850m2 said:

No not really, but I made some good money in bio tech stocks. They are quite risky so you have to do a lot of research.

 

I think "green" stocks and ETF's are something to look for here in 2021.

 

exactly, because other people might euh, what now, take some profits from you ?

 

maybe you are a billionaire like most here old expats are millionaires

 

pinch of salt...

 

you know what has excellent return on investment ?  all the things people go to jail for , unless you wear that brown uniform

[Antiparovian]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:42 AM, Neeranam said:

What would you buy right now -  BTC or gold?

I think that BTC is going to take the gold market, but I could be wrong. 

BTC just passed 1,000,000 baht! I started buying it when it was 88,000 baht and survived and Hodled a long 3 -year bear market.  I remember being ridiculed here by some  gold maximalists ????

 

Could you put up your original post when you invested please? Or is this  pure aftertiming? Everyone here seems to post when they have made a profit, not when they made the original investment.

[guzzi850m2]

25 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

exactly, because other people might euh, what now, take some profits from you ?

 

maybe you are a billionaire like most here old expats are millionaires

 

pinch of salt...

 

you know what has excellent return on investment ?  all the things people go to jail for , unless you wear that brown uniform

Oh ho

 

No far from being a billionaire but I get by.

 

Thanks for the tip about doing things you can go to jail for but I pass, thanks.

 

This topic is about bitcoin versus gold so I don't see the point in starting listing my stock holdings.

 

Since I am holding long in my stock I would be delighted if others buy the same stocks as I own.

 

[Seeall]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:43 AM, Neeranam said:

I started buying gold in 2001, when it was 6,000 baht and sold about 10 years later for 26,000 baht. 

Averages 2.3% per year...

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Seeall said:

Averages 2.3% per year...

Bitcoin is up 12% in 24 hours!  

[Neeranam]

19 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Gold - $1943

Btc- $30,500

 

At the time the poll was made. 

Let's revisit in the future. 

 

I'm surprised that gold leads the poll. 

 

1 day later.

Gold  -  $1945

Bitcoin - $35,000

[Quack]

Of course both are decent investments and the price of both, while it will have ups and downs, will ultimately continue rising for the rest of our lives. As for which one is best, Bitcoin is without question. Just buy as much as you can and keep hold of. If you can hold it for 5 years minimum trust me you will be glad that you did. 

[allanos]

I own both. I have mining shares (great upward potential when the gold price starts to run again this year), gold coins, and BTC. There are pro's and cons, but BTC is the future. My gold shares have returned 30%, my coins 45%, my BTC 200%. These three assets represent about 50% of my total wealth.

 

Bitcoin (BTC) has the greatest utility. It is stored in my hard wallet and can be carried in my pocket. I can't do that with my mining shares or gold coins. Bitcoin is digital gold, possibility only understood by 1% of the people on the planet.

 

Warren Buffet once said he only invests in something he understands. Ultimately, he changed his tune; he was missing out on FANG stocks. And although he hasn't come out and said he owns Bitcoin, he will have been badly served by his investment team if he doesn't own any.

 

Institutional adoption is now well under way.  The chief investment officer at Guggenheim believes BTC will go to $400k. That has now become an understated prediction. There is no question that some central banks will adopt Bitcoin to a greater or lesser degree. When they do, stand back . . .

 

A few months ago I gave each of my grandchildren 200 pounds, admonishing their parents (my children) that they must invest it into BTC for the long term.

In four months, those investments have doubled, and will eventually become a decent nest egg for the kids when they turn 18 or so.

[khunPer]

On 1/5/2021 at 3:42 AM, Neeranam said:

What would you buy right now -  BTC or gold?

I think that BTC is going to take the gold market, but I could be wrong. 

BTC just passed 1,000,000 baht! I started buying it when it was 88,000 baht and survived and Hodled a long 3 -year bear market.  I remember being ridiculed here by some  gold maximalists ????

The news yesterday said that a bank expected Bitcoin to hit $260k, now it's around $30k, but depending of the Bitcoin market would become less volatile. Also around November last year, there were prediction for Bitcoin to reach between $200k and $300k.

 

88,000 baht to 1,000,000 baht is good, it's 11 times up...????

However if Bitcoin reach $200k it would be around 70 times up...

 

On 1/5/2021 at 3:43 AM, Neeranam said:

I started buying gold in 2001, when it was 6,000 baht and sold about 10 years later for 26,000 baht. 

That about 4 times up, not bad, and more than long term average stock-market that statistically doubles in about 10 years...????

However you can also find stocks that double it's value or more in only one year...

 

Personally I don't fancy either gold, nor Bitcoin investment, but in the always crystal clear light of hindsight, I should have invested a few hundred dollars in Bitcoin, when I could by one coin for a dollar...????

 

Predictions are difficult, especially about the future...????

[nervona81732]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:09 AM, Hamus Yaigh said:

Global market cap of gold is 9T USD, BTC still only 0.6T so money still to be moved.

 

Gold still out there in the ground to be found, BTC only 21m to be made ever.

 

I'm on the BTC side of the fence, but like ETH more.

My ETH Just went up $600 since last night for what I own. Wish I would have bought BITCOIN when it was offered @ 17 cents a pop. Sheesh, did't know the puter good enough back then. Security was lax also. Seems many are going up riding the BTC wave.

[eddie61]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:42 AM, Neeranam said:

What would you buy right now -  BTC or gold?

I think that BTC is going to take the gold market, but I could be wrong. 

BTC just passed 1,000,000 baht! I started buying it when it was 88,000 baht and survived and Hodled a long 3 -year bear market.  I remember being ridiculed here by some  gold maximalists ????

 

It’s a silly question.... most people would buy both

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, eddie61 said:

It’s a silly question.... most people would buy both

Now more than ever there will be buyers as many are having a FOMO moment.

[allanos]

38 minutes ago, eddie61 said:

It’s a silly question.... most people would buy both

Yes, but not a 50/50 split! Perhaps 90/10 in favour of BTC.

[Barnabe]

You guys are too bullish. Never invest more in bitcoin than you can afford to lose.

 

Bitcoin and crypto currencies are an amazing construct, like the money of the future. But in the end, it's still nothing physical and only backed by belief. This belief can evaporate very quickly under the right conditions. Governments around the world can start cracking down hard on crypto currencies, demanding to know who owns them, and could even reach the point where it becomes illegal to own them.

 

There is a precedent for this: gold was made illegal to own before during times of crisis. And you might think you're safe because the cryptos are inside of your computer, but in the end, how are you going to cash out and transact if fiat conversion is illegal?

 

It would be unwise to ignore crypto currencies if you're an investor, but it's extremely unwise to put most of your savings on them. They should be nothing more than a wild card (<= 10%) on a very diversified portfolio.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, eddie61 said:

It’s a silly question.... most people would buy both

Did You buy both? 

[Seeall]

4 hours ago, allanos said:

I own both. I have mining shares (great upward potential when the gold price starts to run again this year), gold coins, and BTC. There are pro's and cons, but BTC is the future. My gold shares have returned 30%, my coins 45%, my BTC 200%. These three assets represent about 50% of my total wealth.

 

Bitcoin (BTC) has the greatest utility. It is stored in my hard wallet and can be carried in my pocket. I can't do that with my mining shares or gold coins. Bitcoin is digital gold, possibility only understood by 1% of the people on the planet.

 

Warren Buffet once said he only invests in something he understands. Ultimately, he changed his tune; he was missing out on FANG stocks. And although he hasn't come out and said he owns Bitcoin, he will have been badly served by his investment team if he doesn't own any.

 

Institutional adoption is now well under way.  The chief investment officer at Guggenheim believes BTC will go to $400k. That has now become an understated prediction. There is no question that some central banks will adopt Bitcoin to a greater or lesser degree. When they do, stand back . . .

 

A few months ago I gave each of my grandchildren 200 pounds, admonishing their parents (my children) that they must invest it into BTC for the long term.

In four months, those investments have doubled, and will eventually become a decent nest egg for the kids when they turn 18 or so.

It could go down for 4 months as well..

[allanos]

Many people are missing the big picture.  Why does anything (at all) have value? The key is TRUST.  Gold found acceptance over thousands of years, because of its relative scarcity, and that people grew to trust it.  Without trust, gold is just a shiny piece of difficult, but not impossible to find, rock.  It has certain industrial uses, it is long-lasting and makes pretty jewellery, valuable largely because it has become trusted as a store of value.

 

Fiat currency is trusted only because on a piece of paper are written words which basically say "trust me, I am backed by your government".  Without this, it is a worthless piece of paper.  Problem is, however, that, by government sleight of hand, the value of that piece of paper, say in USD, is diminishing by some 15-20% per annum (don't believe government-published figures). 

 

Michael Saylor, founder and CEO of Nasdaq-listed MicroStrategy Inc, woke up one day to realise that the value of hundreds of millions of dollars in his Treasury was depreciating at up to 20% per annum.  In 5 years, the value was going to be halved. Such depreciated purchasing power would accelerate with the increased "stimulus" spending.

 

He took the initial bold step of purchasing $400m in BTC, to protect shareholder value. After adding to it subsequently, Microstrategy Inc now holds some $1.8bn in BTC. His move has prompted a total reassessment of their balance sheets by other corporates and institutions, many of whom now adding Bitcoin to their treasuries.

 

Perhaps Bitcoin is not for the faint of heart. It is certainly volatile, although not much more so than gold. If one commits to holding over the long term, as an Institution does, it doesn't matter if the price drops.  In fact, it matters only to the point that it is then an opportunity to add to one's position. As with any investment, one can only lose when one sells, not when one holds.

 

The market cap of Bitcoin has probably reached a level when it cannot be abolished or restricted by governments, but only embraced and regulated to a degree.  The enlightened Brian Brooks of the OCC in the USA is moving in this direction. 

 

If anyone wonders how safe their fiat currency is in banks, look no further than the buy-in ordered by the Bank of Cyprus a few of years back, sanctioned by no less an entity than the European Union.  Anyone with a balance bigger than 100 000 Euros in their bank account lost the excess. Nearly 50% of such accounts were stripped and pillaged for "the greater good".

 

No thanks, I shall stick to my overweight position in Bitcoin and gold, and take my chances.

[Barnabe]

6 minutes ago, allanos said:

Many people are missing the big picture.  Why does anything (at all) have value? The key is TRUST.  Gold found acceptance over thousands of years, because of its relative scarcity, and that people grew to trust it.  Without trust, gold is just a shiny piece of difficult, but not impossible to find, rock.  It has certain industrial uses, it is long-lasting and makes pretty jewellery, valuable largely because it has become trusted as a store of value.

 

 

You nail the arguments for why gold is superior to bitcoin!

Gold has thousands of years of history and bitcoin has 11. Gold is actually usable for jewelry and electronics, bitcoin has no use. Which one do you think has more trust? And which one is more likely to keep having trust in the future? The answer is obvious.

 

 

6 minutes ago, allanos said:

Perhaps Bitcoin is not for the faint of heart. It is certainly volatile, although not much more so than gold.

 

Sorry, but that's just a lie. Bitcoin is HUGELY more volatile than gold. You just need to compare their relative gains and losses over the years.

 

 

6 minutes ago, allanos said:

The market cap of Bitcoin has probably reached a level when it cannot be abolished or restricted by governments, but only embraced and regulated to a degree.  The enlightened Brian Brooks of the OCC in the USA is moving in this direction. 

 

This is being trumpeted everywhere as a win for crypto currencies, but all they did was to issue an opinion on stablecoins. A stablecoin is just the digital equivalent of fiat, so the opposite of what bitcoin is. I actually see it as the beginning of heavy government intervention in crypto markets.

 

If the US government decides to make it illegal to own bitcoin, or at least to make it illegal to conver to fiat, the price of bitcoin will tank 95% overnight. What makes you think they can't do it? They're the US government. They can do anything they want. They control the world's reserve currency.

 

Look, I'm a believer in bitcoin (not so much in altcoins) and I think it will survive and thrive. If it does survive 1000+ years like gold, it can eventually displace it.

But I don't bet the house on it.

Going all in with your savings, saying that bitcoin is as safe or volatile as gold or thinking that bitcoin cannot be made illegal is just wrong and asking for trouble. You will certainly get burned and disappointed at some point.

 

[Rimbuman]

Bitcoin is great but not by any means the only crypto-currency, and there are probably many more crypto-coins to be introduced, Gold or Silver can not and will not go to zero or be worthless ever. Crypto and precious metals are not the same obviously, like how would you pay an on-line order with gold just to name an important difference between the two. Precious metals might accelerate in value just like crypto-currencies sometime in the (near) future.

[Heng]

Both.   

[Susco]

7 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

Quote

Perhaps Bitcoin is not for the faint of heart. It is certainly volatile, although not much more so than gold.

 

Sorry, but that's just a lie. Bitcoin is HUGELY more volatile than gold. You just need to compare their relative gains and losses over the years.

 

Exactly, I have never seen gold, or any other commodity, increasing or decreasing in value by 50% over the span of a few days.

 

5 minutes ago, Rimbuman said:

Bitcoin is great but not by any means the only crypto-currency, and there are probably many more crypto-coins to be introduced, Gold or Silver can not and will not go to zero or be worthless ever.

 

That is also my point against the arguments that the crypto fanboys like to use. Yes Bitcoin will ever issue 21 million coins, don't even know if that can't be bypassed, but first there was bitcoin, now there are many coins. So that 21 million has already been multiplied multiple times.

 

And yes it can go to zero in a whim, just as likely as it can go to 1 million.

[ukrules]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I recently started using etoro, I don't like it and crypto assets can't be taken out/sent to another exchange, only exchanged for fiat.

Isn't eToro a CFD broker/exchange? I believe it is which explains why you can't withdraw anything - it's just a price bet.

Edited January 6, 2021 by ukrules

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Barnabe said:

There is a precedent for this: gold was made illegal to own before during times of crisis

Oh really, are you sure? Don't forget, it's a big world.

 

[Pravda]

If I could I'd invest in a Thai hooker as I'm sure all the bitcoin winners will be separated from cash in the near future. 

[MeePeeMai]

Gold vs Bitcoin price charts for the last 5 years:

 

Gold - $1,100 to $1,900 (roughly)

Bitcoin - $377 to 37,000 (current price)

 

Where will we be 5 years from today? (My guess)

 

Gold - $15,500 (generous)

Bitcoin - $550,000 (conservative)

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, Barnabe said:

If the US government decides to make it illegal to own bitcoin, or at least to make it illegal to conver to fiat, the price of bitcoin will tank 95% overnight. What makes you think they can't do it? They're the US government. They can do anything they want. They control the world's reserve currency.

One of bitcoin uses, in fact why it was invented is to detach from government/bank corruption. 

The US can't control bitcoin and soon will not be the world's reserve currency. 

In fact, if the US don't want to be left behind in this digital currency gold war, they had better start making more kind regulation. This is happening in the next month. 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Gold vs Bitcoin price charts for the last 5 years:

 

Gold - $1,100 to $1,900 (roughly)

Bitcoin - $377 to 37,000 (current price)

 

Where will we be 5 years from today? (My guess)

 

Gold - $15,500 (generous)

Bitcoin - $550,000 (conservative)

Why do you think gold will increase so much? 

I belive there is going to be a huge transformation of wealth. 

I'm taking 5% of my Btc profits today and not sure where to put it, certainly not stocks, bonds, or the bank????. 

Maybe buy some gold jewelry, getting my 5% cashback in crypto????