How to maintain residences in Thailand and abroad?

[wasabi]

My wife and I are Americans living in Bangkok. We both have 20 year TE visas so coming and going is not a concern for the foreseeable future (once the pandemic is over).

 

We are interested in buying a condo in Bangkok or another Thai city in the near future. However our plan all along has been to spend up to half of the year in the USA as well so I am considering purchasing a property in the US too. 

 

I am wondering what is the most economical and logistically sound way to balance time between continents and am wondering if anyone else has a similar lifestyle -- dividing time between 2 countries? Did you buy or do you rent? I can see a possibility of supporting this lifestyle by purchasing and then renting out either or both residences if I ended up purchasing in popular tourist destinations, but I am also open to simply owning both places if the yearly maintenance weren't excessive but then I am not sure how I would maintain both places while I am in one?

Edited January 10, 2021 by wasabi

[BritManToo]

Your place in Thailand will very quickly fall into disrepair and be eaten by insects.

Homes in the tropics don't last long without people living in them.

[Sheryl]

Moving this to General form as not visa-related

 

It i certainly possible to buy in both locations but will involve some hassle as for the portion of the year you are not in a place you would at a minimum need to pay someone to clean and maintain it. Cost wise you might also need to rent it out and you'd need someone to manage that rental.

 

In the short term would be cheaper to just rent but if you are considering purchase as a long term investment that's a bit different.

[mudcat]

Not sure of your age(s) and insurance arrangements, but some Thai health insurance policies expect, at least initially, Thai residence for more than half the year, e.g. 

 

Pacific Cross: The applicant must be Thai resident or reside in Thailand at least 6 months in a 12 month period. 

My agent assured me that the above is not enforced as far as he knew - not sure if risk management would agree after being presented with a large claim.

 

My Medicare HMO (Kaiser Permanente) in the U.S. includes this:

"We must end your membership: If you are away from our service area for more than six months."

During pandemic travel restrictions I got someone in authority to say they would not enforce this provision so long as I maintained a residence in the U.S.

 

While we could have continued to maintain both residences through careful attention to travel periods, we finally decided it was time to relocate here permanently, and the cost of the various forms of insurance (vehicle, home, health) we maintained in the U.S. tipped the balance.  

 

Steve 

 

 

[federicoP]

I personally roughly divide my time between Thailand and Italy.
For the moment I own two quite complicated houses, both indipendent buildings

Of course I need to have reliable persons in both countries to follow and keep my properties when I am abroad, and this is not at all cheap.

Depending on the fiscal rules of Thailand and of your country, and on the existence of a treaty against double impositions between the two countries, you may have advantages and disadvantages, it is up to you evaluate their weight in your personal situation, and take some decision about your status.

 

 

[wasabi]

Thank you for the replies so far. Regarding Health Insurance I have US Based Blue Cross insurance that is accepted in Thailand in the event of emergencies for my wife and I. For standard care in Thailand it is cost effective to simply pay out of pocket. We do have relatives in Bangkok so part of the equation might be if I were to purchase a place in Thailand to pay one of them to clean and check in on it periodically which they already have expressed an interest in doing in exchange for periodically staying in the unit which wouldn't be a problem.

[treetops]

This year has been a bit different due to Covid, but last year I split my time almost 50/50 between Thailand and home in the UK (2 months at a time in each).  UK in my long time owned home and here in a rental condo.  I don't pay for Thailand accomodation when I'm not here, but only once never got the place I wanted but was quite happy with the alternative.

 

Two month periods are short enough not to let my home deteriorate, or tempt me to rent it out with all that ensues.

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, wasabi said:

Thank you for the replies so far. Regarding Health Insurance I have US Based Blue Cross insurance that is accepted in Thailand in the event of emergencies for my wife and I. For standard care in Thailand it is cost effective to simply pay out of pocket. We do have relatives in Bangkok so part of the equation might be if I were to purchase a place in Thailand to pay one of them to clean and check in on it periodically which they already have expressed an interest in doing in exchange for periodically staying in the unit which wouldn't be a problem.

We have been doing what you suggest for years. part time in Florida, part time in Khon Kaen.

We own a house there and maintain a car.  We are fortunate to have trustworthy family living next to us , so maintenance of the house, car and taking care of the dogs  is not a problem, especially now that we are stuck in the US for a year. 

Purchasing a condominium  would be even easier since you would not have to worry about maintenance.

I guess I still have not gotten over the   "Mine" stage,  there is something to be said about owning your own place , to do whatever you want.

  when we go to thailand we always travel very lite, why? because everything we need is there already. and we sleep in our own bed.  If you rent, you will need to go to a different place every time, set up, spend time making it your own. If you rent it  for the whole year then you still would have to maintain it, so you would be in a similar  situation as owning it .

I build this place in Khon Kaen about three years ago for 2 million BHT excluding land . (the price of a good car in the US,)  but as I said you need to have people you can trust to maintain it for you when you are not there. 

 

 

[wasabi]

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

We have been doing what you suggest for years. part time in Florida, part time in Khon Kaen.

We own a house there and maintain a car.  We are fortunate to have trustworthy family living next to us , so maintenance of the house, car and taking care of the dogs  is not a problem, especially now that we are stuck in the US for a year. 

Purchasing a condominium  would be even easier since you would not have to worry about maintenance.

I guess I still have not gotten over the   "Mine" stage,  there is something to be said about owning your own place , to do whatever you want.

  when we go to thailand we always travel very lite, why? because everything we need is there already. and we sleep in our own bed.  If you rent, you will need to go to a different place every time, set up, spend time making it your own. If you rent it  for the whole year then you still would have to maintain it, so you would be in a similar  situation as owning it .

I build this place in Khon Kaen about three years ago for 2 million BHT excluding land . (the price of a good car in the US,)  but as I said you need to have people you can trust to maintain it for you when you are not there. 

 

 

 

 

Sirineou,

 

I am a Florida resident like you. If I purchased in the US somewhere in Florida or Nevada would be most ideal due to favorable tax laws. If one only considers the economics renting will typically come out ahead in Thailand. But the realities of travel, finding and furnishing a new place or the chance the landlord wishes to raise the rent or stop renting make owning practical in less quantifiable ways that are important too. I'm starting to think leaving a Thai condo vacant or having only relatives stay in it free of charge when I'm away and renting out a place in the US if I'm not living in it may be simpler but still considering all the options.

[Searat7]

I split my time 50/50 between Bangkok and Florida where I bought a condo 5 years ago. I almost bought a condo in Bangkok a few years ago but now I am glad I just rent, paying for the months I am there and storing a few bags in my building.  This year I have stayed in USA because of Covid and hope to return in July for 6 months. Think twice before buying a home in Thailand.

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Your place in Thailand will very quickly fall into disrepair and be eaten by insects.

Homes in the tropics don't last long without people living in them.

 

I've got nine (or ten) camping in my Isaan hovel and it's positively falling to bits.

 

Back on topic: BUY in your homeland but RENT in Thailand (or anywhere else where you have no citizenship).

Edited January 11, 2021 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

I guess I still have not gotten over the   "Mine" stage,  there is something to be said about owning your own place , to do whatever you want.

...until you want to get rid of it maybe?

 

Not knocking your choice. A lot of people do find ownership more rewarding and symbolic of "I did this myself". If one is of a certain age or financial standing and has an alternative plan where changes beyond one's control wouldn't be a significant impact, ie. being able to walk away from a bought-and-paid-for property here, then that's fine. I did some math a few years back when a landlord was asking if I wanted to buy the 3-bed villa we were renting. His generous offer equated with almost 12-years of rent so we demurred.

[elgenon]

I have been doing three months in Thailand, three in the States. I have several properties in the States and don't want the additional hassles involved with having a set place in Thailand. Plus I like moving around visiting friends and seeing new and old places in Thailand.

 

Owning, even renting, gives you responsibilities.

[Whale]

I have a house in the UK and a condo in Bangkok. I find the Bangkok condo a much easier to maintain option than my UK house and simply have a maid who looks after it all year. Buy over rent? Personally because I have all my furniture and household stuff that I like. I can just turn up and be at "home". Condo fees are a pain in the neck and it means my outgoings with the maid and condo fees are about 600 US a month when I am not here.

 

The house in the UK is looked after by family and neighbours (they visit once every couple of weeks) but with the weather, rain, cold, heating, tax, security, etc its a bit more complex/expensive for me and more of a worry when I am not there. When I come over to Thailand I have a plumber sort out the central heating (and when I go back as well) as thats my major worry. If Newcastle was warmer it would less of a hassle.

 

In short, owning is more costly and a little more worrying BUT much more homely. 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Whale

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

well, first you have to save the money to buy one property.

than, when the money is saved, you need to look for an appropriate property

and sign the purchasing  aggreements.

than, you need to save the moeny to buy the second property.

by the time you will do it, you will propably too old and tired of flying between the two

countries, and you will stay and get stucked in one of them for the rest of your life, and

that will solve your problem.

[PGSan]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

His generous offer equated with almost 12-years of rent so we demurred.

An extremely good price!  

[PGSan]

14 minutes ago, Whale said:

600 US a month when I am not here.

Wow, that is huge! 

[Stevemercer]

Maybe you could live in one of the properties for 6 months, and the wife in the other. You could swap every 6 months, and maybe holiday for a few weeks together in the overlap.

 

If you buy in a desirable location in the US you will be able to sell for a profit. This is not necessarily the case in Thailand.

 

I reckon you are better off buying in the US, and then renting in Thailand for 3 months at a time. Particularly if you are not sure where you want to live in Thailand. You could rent in a number of cities/places to help you decide where you like best. It is cheap and easy to rent fully furnished in Thailand (compared to the US).

 

If you find a place you like, you could look at buying.

[NanLaew]

40 minutes ago, PGSan said:

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

His generous offer equated with almost 12-years of rent so we demurred.

An extremely good price!  

 

As I said, it was generous but if we had accepted, we would now be stuck on the dark side of Pattaya with an immovable object that nobody else wants.

[markeewan]

I am not sure what there is to maintain if you purchase a Condo, you just turn off the water, leave a bird net over the balcony and when you come back it is as you left it.

 

Personally I think that renting would be a better option than buying, but there are pros and cons to each option that need to be weighed up.

[Geoff N]

I own a house in UK and rent a serviced apartment in Chiang Mai. For 10 years, until Covid struck, I would spend the winter in Thailand (6 months with a break in UK for Xmas). I did consider buying in Thailand but am now glad I rent, given the unpredictable political situation and Covid restrictions. I returned to UK in April, last year, naïvely expecting to return to Chiang Mai back in August. I am still in UK and paying rent in CM but it is relatively cheap and still gives me an easy option of walking away if things deteriorate further.

[RichardColeman]

7 hours ago, Whale said:

The house in the UK is looked after by family and neighbours

Yes that's great, but when your family might have gone and your neighbours moved it may be a little harder, I think that is what the poster is asking - who can you trust that you don't know.

 

I too have a house in UK and rent in Thai - I can up with a plan whilst living in thailand to have a guy that is a carpenter/landscape gardener move in and pay 80% rent and the balance on house upgrades, new doors, tiling, outside buildings, new window panes , electrics etc. Working perfectly for me with upgrade photos every few months. Tradesman is perfect tenant.

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, NanLaew said:

...until you want to get rid of it maybe?

 

Not knocking your choice. A lot of people do find ownership more rewarding and symbolic of "I did this myself". If one is of a certain age or financial standing and has an alternative plan where changes beyond one's control wouldn't be a significant impact, ie. being able to walk away from a bought-and-paid-for property here, then that's fine. I did some math a few years back when a landlord was asking if I wanted to buy the 3-bed villa we were renting. His generous offer equated with almost 12-years of rent so we demurred.

Sure there are advantages to renting, as you said mobility  is one, liquidity another,  but I can't think of any others .

owning is .Not so easy to sell when you need the money, and you are limited to that location.  

   There might be an economic incentive in renting , in some markets, but when most people calculate the rent vs buy economics over time they fail to consider appreciation of the property. We purchased the building lot where we build in 2010 for 200,000 bht, now you will need 1 million bht to buy the same lot in the same location.  

Two  other considerations are "opportunity costs" and "risk of loss of investment . Then you buy a house you tie money into the house that you could otherwise    invest for a return, but that return is directly proportional to the risk , so consequently you have the risk of losing  you your investment. 

So depending on your situation at the time , if you are young and your lifestyle or job required that you move a lot , renting would certainly  be more desirable, but if you are older, have settled in a particular lifestyle , as the OP seems to be , then owning your own property is more desirable IMO, it gives you the opportunity to do the things you want to do to it, and a place to keep your toys.

Remember "He who dies with the most toys wins" LOL????

[ronaldo0]

Owned a place in uk and Thailand on the basis of thinking spending the uk winters in Thailand and then back to uk for 4-6 months uk summer . Didn’t happen and I ended up renting out my uk place on a weekly basis . While it was mostly booked I was paying a cleaner to clean and change laundry etc for new guests arriving , gardener for large garden to cut grass /hedges /bushes etc , window cleaner , electric , water , heating oil , any urgent repairs etc. Then at end of year tax for renting it out . 
After a few year of this I decided it wasn’t worth it and put the uk place up for sale . Don’t think I would wish to own two houses in different countries again unless could afford to pay upkeep no problem, although a condo might be easier as no garden etc to look after .

[Nout]

On 1/10/2021 at 10:34 AM, BritManToo said:

Your place in Thailand will very quickly fall into disrepair and be eaten by insects.

Homes in the tropics don't last long without people living in them.

The type of property you bought maybe...6 months with the help friends keeping an eye in it is not too long..better still if its rented out...I know many people who live just as the OP proposed, or similar.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Nout said:

The type of property you bought maybe...6 months with the help friends keeping an eye in it is not too long..better still if its rented out...I know many people who live just as the OP proposed, or similar.

You're probably right, large detached houses are a bit more vulnerable that your multi-shoe-box residence.

[phetphet]

In Thailand. You will definitely need a cleaner, or someone to go in at least once a month.

 

Gekkos will get in and leave their calling cards everywhere. Insects, dust. Also the water in the toilet bowls and floor drains will evaporate and you will get sewage stink. So you will need someone to top them  up. Curtains will need to be closed to prevent strong sunlight UV discolouring furniture and fabrics.

 

Remember to turn off water supply, empty fridge and leave fridge door open, maybe electricity off.

Put down ant and  cockroach  poison.

 

Make sure all doors and  windows secured.

[wasabi]

Thank you for the continued replies. Great to hear different perspectives and strategies on living in multiple countries. I realized a while ago I'd never be satisfied living in one place all the time and so far the US and Thailand are a nice pairing of lifestyles. When it comes to Thailand if I buy I will not buy a place for a price beyond what I could walk away from if necessary. Secondly the place in Thailand will likely be a place I don't expect to sell for many years if ever. Quality of the location and enjoyment living there will be key.

 

With the US if I bought it would also need to be a good location but I would be looking for property price appreciation and the potential for rental income.

[madmen]

I'm currently in Oz and rented my place monthly on Airbnb and scored a 12 month lease without being there. 

You just need one good real estate agent probably the closest to your place and make sure they are reputable and yes they do exist. 

 

I'm not sure about selling though. That would require a power of attorney if you can't get back but post covid Just hop a flight 

 

Paying juristic common areas is easy through transferwise 

 

Condo is easiest to keep long distance obviously 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by madmen

[Hanuman2547]

Although I own a house in the US and a couple of houses in Thailand I would suggest renting in Thailand.  Easier to walk away from if you need to return to the US in a hurry.