Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, NiceGuyEddy said:

They made their choice in the independance referendum a few years ago and by a huge margin the Scots chose to stay part of the mighty UK.

You can't keep having referendums until you get the result what you want. Who do you think you are?.....the EU?

 

You are incorrect in your statement there, Nice Guy. The majority of Scots voted to leave the UK in 2014. 

 

But as for a repeat: we can have as many as we wish - or do you not like democracy? 

 

 

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage, who took the decision not to close the borders back in March? 

Since then it has been mainly Bojo decisions that have stirred up anti restriction feelings.

Take it you have forgotten about that advisor already.

If Bojo had done things right and the numbers were low, but high in Scotland, then you would have something to crow about. Remind us, who opposed travel restriction from England into Scotland.

Suppose when ( if ) we ever get over this pandemic and we,ve got the worst depression since the 1930 s the same people slagging boris off now will be slagging him off for locking down and killing the economy.

[kingdong]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You are incorrect in your statement there, Nice Guy. The majority of Scots voted to leave the UK in 2014. 

 

But as for a repeat: we can have as many as we wish - or do you not like democracy? 

 

 

The majority of scots voted to leave?who counted your votes? Donald trump?

[kingdong]

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

 doing very well as a member of the EU.

Obviously one of the ponces,sorry beneficiaries of the eu,hope losing britains contribution won,t affect their income.

[NiceGuyEddy]

18 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You are incorrect in your statement there, Nice Guy. The majority of Scots voted to leave the UK in 2014. 

 

But as for a repeat: we can have as many as we wish - or do you not like democracy? 

 

 

If your statement is correct, wouldn't Scotland be an independant country now? If I remember correctly the result was 55/45 stay in the mighty UK.

[Phulublub]

1 minute ago, NiceGuyEddy said:

If your statement is correct, wouldn't Scotland be an independant country now? If I remember correctly the result was 55/45 stay in the mighty UK.

Wrong.  For example, I voted to stay.  I am not Scottish.  Polls indicate that the majority of Scots who voted did indeed vote the leave.

 

PH

[NiceGuyEddy]

33 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Wrong.  For example, I voted to stay.  I am not Scottish.  Polls indicate that the majority of Scots who voted did indeed vote the leave.

 

PH

polls shmolls

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, NiceGuyEddy said:

If your statement is correct, wouldn't Scotland be an independant country now? If I remember correctly the result was 55/45 stay in the mighty UK.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, NiceGuyEddy said:

If your statement is correct, wouldn't Scotland be an independant country now? If I remember correctly the result was 55/45 stay in the mighty UK.

No, because the franchise was extended beyond Scots. 

 

See page 5 of the below research. 52.7% of voters born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

 

The Scottish Question, Six Months On 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

But as for a repeat: we can have as many as we wish - or do you not like democracy? 

 

 

 

An increasingly number of ballots does not necessarily equate to increased democracy. Imo ballots, which do not form part of the usual democratic process e.g. referendums, are disruptive and negatively affect the ability of governments to fulfil their democratic obligation to the electorate i.e. to govern.

 

If we must have referendums - and I remain unconvinced - then surely there must be an agreed period for which the result remains valid. It is not desirable - or practical - to hold them endlessly.

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

No, because the franchise was extended beyond Scots. 

 

See page 5 of the below research. 52.7% of voters born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

 

The Scottish Question, Six Months On 

I can't remember exactly how all the Scottish people, worldwide, actually expressed their opinion....????

 

Perhaps the easiest way of Nichola  winning the vote would be to let the whole of the UK vote on the subject, judging by some of the friendly banter from some of the Subcontractors we used to get at work, that came from our allied southern state a few times a year. ????

 

What about the Son, he is British. 

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

 

An increasingly number of ballots does not necessarily equate to increased democracy. Imo ballots, which do not form part of the usual democratic process e.g. referendums, are disruptive and negatively affect the ability of governments to fulfil their democratic obligation to the electorate i.e. to govern.

 

If we must have referendums - and I remain unconvinced - then surely there must be an agreed period for which the result remains valid. It is not desirable - or practical - to hold them endlessly.

 

Perhaps it should be best out of 3 now ????.

 

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, RayC said:

 

An increasingly number of ballots does not necessarily equate to increased democracy. Imo ballots, which do not form part of the usual democratic process e.g. referendums, are disruptive and negatively affect the ability of governments to fulfil their democratic obligation to the electorate i.e. to govern.

 

If we must have referendums - and I remain unconvinced - then surely there must be an agreed period for which the result remains valid. It is not desirable - or practical - to hold them endlessly.

 

Endlessly? We had home rule referendum in 1979 where the majority backed home rule but the Westminster government of the day changed the rules last minute and declared that the status quo was the winner. 

 

We had an independence referendum in 2014 where the majority of Scots voted in favour of leaving the UK, but were defeated by the votes of incomers. Also, the multiple promises made to voters to reject independence were ignored and nothing promised was delivered. 

 

So now we ask for a third. Nobody is taking about endless toing and froing. We are demanding that our right to determine the manner of government best suited to our needs is honoured. It's as simple as that. 

[transam]

15 hours ago, Sujo said:

Which should be a choice made by scotland.

They did, not so long ago, did you forget.....

[Sujo]

Just now, transam said:

They did, not so long ago, did you forget.....

And after such a major change in circumstance should do so again, if they, and only they, wish to do so.

 

At the moment its hotel california time. Perhaps the eu should have refused to let the uk hold their referendum.

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Sujo said:

And after such a major change in circumstance should do so again, if they, and only they, wish to do so.

 

At the moment its hotel california time. Perhaps the eu should have refused to let the uk hold their referendum.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/alister-jack-independent-scotland-largest-134319741.html

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/alister-jack-independent-scotland-largest-134319741.html

So? Not your or the UK's problem. This is a matter of the Scots.

[transam]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

So? Not your or the UK's problem. This is a matter of the Scots.

As I said before, I would hate to see them fall via Scot shield beaters......????

[Sujo]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

As I said before, I would hate to see them fall via Scot shield beaters......????

Which should be a matter solely for scotland.

[RuamRudy]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

As I said before, I would hate to see them fall via Scot shield beaters......????

Are you really so arrogant as to suggest that without the support of the English, we would not survive? 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Which should be a matter solely for scotland.

Well obviously you are incorrect, if Scotland being part of the United Kingdom has to ask Westminster (their government too) for another referendum it cannot be "a matter solely for Scotland) now can it. Anything that affects the future of the UK is a matter for all UK citizens.

Now I know you won't take this in, you will be back every day with the same question, to which numerous posters have tried to explain to you but it fails to sink in.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Are you really so arrogant as to suggest that without the support of the English, we would not survive? 

I'm thinking that the SNP might struggle to survive RR with all the latest revelations, you cannot be sitting comfortable on this, can you?

[RuamRudy]

43 minutes ago, transam said:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/alister-jack-independent-scotland-largest-134319741.html

A deficit widely derided as meaningless in that it emanates from the wasteful and corrupt black hole that is Westminster. 

 

Also dont forget, independence is about shaking off all the corruption and incompetence that your tory party. We don't want to do what is being done but because it hasn't worked for decades. 

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I'm thinking that the SNP might struggle to survive RR with all the latest revelations, you cannot be sitting comfortable on this, can you?

 

Of course not, but the referendum question won't mention the SNP. Independence is not about them in any way, shape or form. It is about ditching the harmful and wasteful status quo and doing what is best for Scotland. 

 

I have said this before, and I still firmly believe it - the SNP may continue in name after independence, but it will be a radically different party depending upon whether the left or the right gain control. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by RuamRudy

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

We had an independence referendum in 2014 where the majority of Scots voted in favour of leaving the UK, but were defeated by the votes of incomers. Also, the multiple promises made to voters to reject independence were ignored and nothing promised was delivered. 

 

So who are you trying to pin this on, excuse after excuse. Always somebody elses fault.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Of course not, but the referendum question won't mention the SNP. Independence is not about them in any way, shape or form. It is about ditching the harmful and wasteful status quo and doing what is best for Scotland. 

It would be a fool in my opinion to suggest that N Sturgeon hasn't got a lot of influence on the success of the SNP, for reasons I would rather not go into. It is becoming more apparent by the day that she and some of her inner sanctum have mislead and lied about Alex Salmond and indeed tried to get him convicted for a crime he did not commit (allegedly), if that being the case many would insist on her removal, would that be a fair comment?

 

[RuamRudy]

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

So who are you trying to pin this on, excuse after excuse. Always somebody elses fault.

 

Pin what on? Excuse about what? There is no fault here, merely a situation that remains unsatisfactory to the majority of Scots. 

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

It would be a fool in my opinion to suggest that N Sturgeon hasn't got a lot of influence on the success of the SNP, for reasons I would rather not go into. It is becoming more apparent by the day that she and some of her inner sanctum have mislead and lied about Alex Salmond and indeed tried to get him convicted for a crime he did not commit (allegedly), if that being the case many would insist on her removal, would that be a fair comment?

 

 

Like any party, the SNP has its internal factions: possibly more than most because of the wide spectrum of political ideologies united by a common goal. 

 

But as I am not a member of the SNP, I am no more aware of their wrangling than you are. 

 

Quite frankly, I would be happy to see the back of them if there was a genuine left of centre party with a similar profile, but there isn't. So, like many Scots who have similar aspirations, I will hitch a ride with them till we accomplish those objectives and then look for a more satisfactory political home. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Pin what on? Excuse about what? There is no fault here, merely a situation that remains unsatisfactory to the majority of Scots. 

But the Scottish Parliament voted for this to happen this way, they even included 16 and 17 year olds hoping it would boost their chance of a separation, I just fail to see your beef with it. The only guarantee is to only have SNP members voting if you had a indy2.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Like any party, the SNP has its internal factions: possibly more than most because of the wide spectrum of political ideologies united by a common goal. 

 

But as I am not a member of the SNP, I am no more aware of their wrangling than you are. 

 

Quite frankly, I would be happy to see the back of them if there was a genuine left of centre party with a similar profile, but there isn't. So, like many Scots who have similar aspirations, I will hitch a ride with them till we accomplish those objectives and then look for a more satisfactory political home. 

But without Sturgeon I think it would be an uphill struggle.

I don't know if you have seen this sworn affidavit from Craig Murray, but if only a tenth of it is true it will be enough (or should be) to remove Sturgeon.

 

17. It had been impossible to follow the judicial review case without concluding that a very unfair process had been undertaken against Alex Salmond, and that it was impossible this could have happened without the knowledge and approval of Nicola Sturgeon.........

 

 

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/