Britain denies wanting to reduce workers' rights post-Brexit

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, candide said:

 

As the the % of workforce, the difference is neglectible: 3.1% of UK born workers have a zero hour contract,  to compare  with 4.1% of foreign born workers.

 

Not a % of the UK workforce, or there would be many more non-UK workers on zero hour contracts, therefore not at all negligible. Comparing 3.1% of UK workers to 4.1% of non-uk workers on zero hours, shows that non-uk workers are approximately a third more likely to be on zero hours than the UK counterpart.

[Loiner]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Trolling?

No, beating you in discussion.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Trolling?

No, just very one dimensional.

[Chomper Higgot]

38 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Not a % of the UK workforce, or there would be many more non-UK workers on zero hour contracts, therefore not at all negligible. Comparing 3.1% of UK workers to 4.1% of non-uk workers on zero hours, shows that non-uk workers are approximately a third more likely to be on zero hours than the UK counterpart.

Is Johnson’s government promising to get rid of zero hour contracts?

 

Or is your detour around zero hour contracts just a diversion from the forthcoming ‘Brexit Dividend’ (Stiffing UK workers)?!

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is Johnson’s government promising to get rid of zero hour contracts?

 

Or is your detour around zero hour contracts just a diversion from the forthcoming ‘Brexit Dividend’ (Stiffing UK workers)?!

Nobody knows what will come from the post-brexit overhaul, least of all the hysterical Labour party or Remainer press. Not that the outcome is likely to be so bad anyway.

If the EU rules were so good there would be no zero hours contracts, and no surplus EU wage slaves to keep them going.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

If the EU was to be supposed to be so great for workers rights, why was it not voted to make rules for ex-workers rights in pensions?

 

The EU doesn't vote for anything; the member states do! 

 

State pensions, and other state benefits, are and always have been a matter for each individual member state and them alone. You know what that is? Sovereignty. I thought you were all for that!

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The EU is very interested in funds for pension payments to MEPs but not others.

Like all employers who provide a pension, the EU has to fund it by one means or another. But, for example, Nigel Farage's very generous MEP compensation and pension package is akin to a company pension, not a state one.

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Are EU rules for workers rights really so good? I think the abundance of zero hour contracts in UK shows they are not up to much really.

A decision by the UK government, not the EU. From a 2016 Full Fact report

Quote

Not all have an explicit ban, but it’s correct that most EU countries outlaw these contracts, heavily restrict them, or don’t see them widely used. The UK is one of around half a dozen European countries where zero hours contracts are both legal and fairly common.

 Since then, in 2019, the EU has taken steps towards banning them completely: EU law fixes minimum rights for 'gig economy' workers

 

Not that we'll be effected by that; so UK employers can, and doubtless will, continue to use them.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by 7by7
spelling

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Trolling?

 

No, I think Loiner could be a genuine Brexiter. The disconnected and specious argumentation would indicate that.

 

In that world the EU is to blame for e v e r y t h I n g. The Brits themselves, their systems, the idiot pols they elect have nothing to do with it. Don’t forget they used to have an empire (Reich). The world used to look up to them.

 

200 years ago and even then at the muzzle of an army issue musket.

 

No, patience and compassion are what are required here.

 

The east Germans put up with east Germany for decades until the economy got so bad they simply HAD to go marching round the town halls.

 

It could take decades before the Brits finally get fed up enough to risk that.

 

Until then we must approach them with compassion. Deep compassion. Like boddhisatva dolphins frolicking in oceans of compassion. Invite them in to drop all their hatred and blame.

 

For they really genuinely know not what they have brought upon themselves.

 

And they genuinely do believe that Brexit was about improving their lot, and not that of their masters.

[kingdong]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is Johnson’s government promising to get rid of zero hour contracts?

 

Or is your detour around zero hour contracts just a diversion from the forthcoming ‘Brexit Dividend’ (Stiffing UK workers)?!

 "British workers"were "stiffed" long before brexit,started with thatcher and was carried on by labour.and you wonder why people voted to leave?

[BusyB]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

 "British workers"were "stiffed" long before brexit,started with thatcher and was carried on by labour.and you wonder why people voted to leave?

 

See what I mean folks? - the EU is to blame for Thatcher and Labour stiffing the workers.

 

ROFLMBO

Edited January 17, 2021 by BusyB
added a key word

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, kingdong said:

 "British workers"were "stiffed" long before brexit,started with thatcher and was carried on by labour.and you wonder why people voted to leave?

I do, indeed, wonder why so many people voted to leave.

 

It was certainly nothing to do with British workers being stiffed because, as you, yourself, say; that was down to successive British governments and so nothing to do with the EU.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, BusyB said:

 

See what I mean folks? - the EU is to blame for Thatcher and Labour stiffing the workers.

 

ROFLMBO

No,the politicians of both mainstream parties were,the migrant workers were a by product of the uks membership to the eu,so when a peoples vote was called,the people voted,power to the people,thats what happens when political parties treat their constituents with scorn and contempt..

[kingdong]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I do, indeed, wonder why so many people voted to leave.

 

It was certainly nothing to do with British workers being stiffed because, as you, yourself, say; that was down to successive British governments and so nothing to do with the EU.

Successive british governments who kept the uk in the uk for 47 years allowed the " british workers to be stiffed " through freedom of movement.and i do indeed wonder how any uk working man could support remain,turkeys voting for an early christmas.

[Loiner]

17 minutes ago, BusyB said:

 

No, I think Loiner could be a genuine Brexiter. The disconnected and specious argumentation would indicate that.

 

In that world the EU is to blame for e v e r y t h I n g. The Brits themselves, their systems, the idiot pols they elect have nothing to do with it. Don’t forget they used to have an empire (Reich). The world used to look up to them.

 

200 years ago and even then at the muzzle of an army issue musket.

 

No, patience and compassion are what are required here.

 

The east Germans put up with east Germany for decades until the economy got so bad they simply HAD to go marching round the town halls.

 

It could take decades before the Brits finally get fed up enough to risk that.

 

Until then we must approach them with compassion. Deep compassion. Like boddhisatva dolphins frolicking in oceans of compassion. Invite them in to drop all their hatred and blame.

 

For they really genuinely know not what they have brought upon themselves.

 

And they genuinely do believe that Brexit was about improving their lot, and not that of their masters.

Keep going comrade, you may be able to convince the other Remainers and euros, but unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters. Oh dear, the Remainers are lost with Verhofstadt and Starmer.

We are now fully out of the EU. There is no Armageddon and there wont be one, unless you are a Brussels bureaucrat. Despite some snow, the sun is beginning to shine on the UK.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Keep going comrade, you may be able to convince the other Remainers and euros, but unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters. Oh dear, the Remainers are lost with Verhofstadt and Starmer.

We are now fully out of the EU. There is no Armageddon and there wont be one, unless you are a Brussels bureaucrat. Despite some snow, the sun is beginning to shine on the UK.

And boris should declare a national holiday so people will always remember the day the uk broke free of its shackles to the eu,it could be called nigel farage day,and perhaps at a later date a statue could be erected to commemorate the great man.

[Chomper Higgot]

59 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Nobody knows what will come from the post-brexit overhaul, least of all the hysterical Labour party or Remainer press. Not that the outcome is likely to be so bad anyway.

If the EU rules were so good there would be no zero hours contracts, and no surplus EU wage slaves to keep them going.

Pinned

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Pinned

Lost for comeback sneers?

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Keep going comrade, you may be able to convince the other Remainers and euros, but unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters. Oh dear, the Remainers are lost with Verhofstadt and Starmer.

We are now fully out of the EU. There is no Armageddon and there wont be one, unless you are a Brussels bureaucrat. Despite some snow, the sun is beginning to shine on the UK.

“unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters”

 

There’s a bunch of old Etonian Brexit backers running the country that disagree with you.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Lost for comeback sneers?

Be patient, my comeback will come when the Johnson Government have reduced the rights of UK workers.

[kingdong]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

“unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters”

 

There’s a bunch of old Etonian Brexit backers running the country that disagree with you.

Unfortunately until nigel forms a political party it could very well be the case that one must vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Unfortunately until nigel forms a political party it could very well be the case that one must vote for the lesser of 2 evils.

You do know your Nigel has a problem getting elected?

[Loiner]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters”

 

There’s a bunch of old Etonian Brexit backers running the country that disagree with you.

The commissar says put on your tin foil hat comrade.

[baansgr]

On 1/16/2021 at 11:09 AM, MaiDong said:

Zero hours contracts. I'll leave that here. 

Brought in under a remain labour government...I'll leave it there

[Chomper Higgot]

45 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Brought in under a remain labour government...I'll leave it there

That would have been a clever move, ‘Remain’ wasn’t an issue at the time.

 

Hey but there’s hope, Johnson is in charge, Brexit is ‘sort of done’, nothing stopping the Old Etonian getting rid of zero hour contracts.

 

 

[kingdong]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That would have been a clever move, ‘Remain’ wasn’t an issue at the time.

 

Hey but there’s hope, Johnson is in charge, Brexit is ‘sort of done’, nothing stopping the Old Etonian getting rid of zero hour contracts.

 

 

Think the " old etonian" will have his hands full with the world wide depression thats in the post.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do know your Nigel has a problem getting elected?

Yeah he got 4.5 million votes and not one seat,while the snp got 50 seats from 5 million votes.

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Successive british governments who kept the uk in the uk for 47 years allowed the " british workers to be stiffed " through freedom of movement.and i do indeed wonder how any uk working man could support remain,turkeys voting for an early christmas.

 

First off, the UK government could have prevented freedom of movement from the poorer former eastern bloc states (that the UK wanted in the EU to make it harder to find consensus) but chose not to.

 

Another sovereign decision by the way. Other countries including Germany did hold Bulgarians etc. out. And we didn't have a storm of them arriving after 8 years either.

 

Second, why have other EU countries (who now all enjoy the fantastic achievement of freedom of movement, unique in global history) not suffered the way the UK apparently does with freedom of movement.

 

Thirdly most EU citizens who moved to UK did so to do more than just do zero hours contracts. Those are far better regulated and much fairer on the mainland anyway. Most went into things like the NHS and other professions.

 

Fourth, the fruit pickers stay 6 months and go back home.

 

Fifth it is a proven fact even if I don't remember where the links are that overall migrants pay more into social security systems than they take out. They have to.

 

I could go on but the litany of lies about the so-called economic problems with migration have long been shown to be a) lies and b) based on hatred of the 'other'.

 

Speaking as a migrant. In the other direction. I was able to take a decision to avoid the sick man of Europe and Thatcher Britain 40 odd years ago.

 

That's a right and privilege the Brexiteers have taken away from an entire bloody generation in their ignorance and spite.

 

Nuff said.

 

 

 

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Keep going comrade, you may be able to convince the other Remainers and euros, but unlike the europhiles and federasts we have no masters. Oh dear, the Remainers are lost with Verhofstadt and Starmer.

We are now fully out of the EU. There is no Armageddon and there wont be one, unless you are a Brussels bureaucrat. Despite some snow, the sun is beginning to shine on the UK.

 

'Comrade'. You have not the slightest idea of my political inclinations.

 

Yes I am indeed first generation British European and I am really grateful to have been able to take advantage of it. I feel genuinely sorry for those who had neither the backbone or intelligence to do better for themselves than Brexit.

 

But I guess I'd have done well wherever I landed.

 

Just like some are losers wherever they go - or stay.

 

I just don't like the levels of exploitation in the UK. And I've seen it first hand within UK companies I've worked for here in the '4th Reich' ???? ???? ????  - except they can't get away with that garbage here and have to change their ways post-haste. Really, Brexit is not for people who write the kind of stuff you do. Honestly. You've been utterly had.

 

Here we have it folks ... he really thinks he has no masters. Thus we see the appeal of the Brexit philosophy to the ordinary Joan and Joe.

 

[Kwasaki]

FT rag still stirring up remainer rubbish.

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

FT rag still stirring up remainer rubbish.

great contribution to the discussion!

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Pinned

 

Agreed.

 

Indeed, noone is a prophet. But if I had to bet a month's income on the UK's prospects, I'd bet on a steady decline in living standards and opportunities (already savagely cut) for most people. And enormous leaps in wealth for the master class.

 

Brexit became a live issue when the EU started going after tax havens and Cameron saw he wouldn't be able to veto the legislation or opt out.

 

So they rolled out the Union Jack, woffled about the EUSSR and through their media barons poured hate on the lowest and most vulnerable of the working classes - the migrants. Worked like a dream. Always does with the dummies anywhere in the world.

 

Makes 'em feel powerful for the first time in their lives. Addictive. Which is why rational argument seldom helps.

 

Here's a little anecdote for everyone.

 

At the bottom of my road there is a plaque. It's in memory of an actually very brave 18 year old lad.

 

In the final days of April 1945, as the Russians were only a few hundred meters away, as this entire city was a pile of smoking rubble, all that was left of the Nazi insanity, nothing but smoke fire machine guns artillery blasts screaming and dying, the Nazis hung him. At 18. Hours before the end of the inevitable collapse of Berlin and the end of the war.

 

Why? Because he wouldn't fight for 'final victory'. 

 

That is the kind of mindset you're dealing with with Trumpets and Faragistos.

 

Don't let them get you down.