PM promises "Fast - Safe - Transparent - Comprehensive" vaccine program - no mention of foreigners.

[chilli42]

17 hours ago, berton said:

which competence do you have? when scientists knows that we need 8-10 years tests for theese kind of new vaccines?

I will assume that you are misunderstanding the point of the post.  To make it simple, the vaccination program in Thailand should already have started ... as it has in other countries (Mexico, India etc).  That it has not started and will not do so until June is a failure in planning.  That Thailand will not have sufficient vaccine to cover the adult population in this country has been apparent for some time.  No alternative vaccine has yet been approved. This is another failure in planning.  Inadequate planning/failure to plan, particularly I a dire situation such as this, demonstrates incompetence.  Not sure what you do/did for a living but I would have been escorted out the door without so much as a good bye from past employers for performance like this.

[chilli42]

19 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Please read what happened after the swine flu vaccination and what could go wrong, did go wrong. The "Warp Speed" might only be for Captain Kirk? 

 

    

The federal government has launched “Operation Warp Speed” to deliver a covid-19 vaccine by January, months ahead of standard vaccine timelines.

The last time the government tried that, it was a total fiasco.

 

   Swine flu vaccine: Like coronavirus, the government sought ‘warp speed’ inoculation - The Washington Post

 

 

You are likely right. I find myself insufficiently motivated to stand in line for this vaccine.  That said, we can’t continue like we have been, particularly with new mutations popping up that are more infectious.  Maybe the best outcome can be achieved by screening out those that are more at risk from the vaccine.

[chilli42]

I am just curious. Does anyone on TVF know when full safety data on any of these vaccines might be available?  Do you believe that society can carry on as we are now until such time as full safety data is available?

[Knocker33]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:41 AM, robblok said:

So what.. why do you expect the Thai government to take care of you. You are not Thai. I don't mind paying a private hospital. Also GF her company is looking into getting the vaccine themselves they are a medical company. I don't see the problem of governments not taking care of non Thais. 

We made choices when we came here.. why expect a government to take care of us. If you want that then go back to your home country. There you are being taken care of have more rights.

And what about the foreigners who pay taxes and social security here. Do you you want them to go home. I presume you are american.Were no one is looked after

[robblok]

50 minutes ago, Knocker33 said:

And what about the foreigners who pay taxes and social security here. Do you you want them to go home. I presume you are american.Were no one is looked after

You probably did not read the rest of the topic (who can blame you its long). But i specifically said who pay taxes here these normally already are insured by the Thai system. There people should get it for free.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, chilli42 said:

I am just curious. Does anyone on TVF know when full safety data on any of these vaccines might be available?  Do you believe that society can carry on as we are now until such time as full safety data is available?

Fact that they vaccinated 9 million in the US without any problems (one possible but certainly not confirmed death).

 

So Id say pretty safe.

[portlandtree]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:30 AM, Geoffggi said:

Excellent news, if all the Thai's are vaccinated the Expats won't need to get the jab ...............LOL

True but try traveling

[Geoffggi]

25 minutes ago, portlandtree said:

True but try traveling

Not planning to travel any time soon plus as yet not a world wide requirement but I take your point

[RickBradford]

I suspect that anyone who regularly crosses international  borders is going to have to show a vaccination certificate, so deeply ingrained has the Covid panic become.

 

If vaccination becomes necessary, I'm going for the Astra Zeneca one, which is based on tried and true viral vector technology; the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not just new vaccines, but a new technology of vaccine known as messenger RNA (mRNA). This is why they are much more expensive and need much colder storage conditions.

[partington]

31 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I suspect that anyone who regularly crosses international  borders is going to have to show a vaccination certificate, so deeply ingrained has the Covid panic become.

 

If vaccination becomes necessary, I'm going for the Astra Zeneca one, which is based on tried and true viral vector technology; the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not just new vaccines, but a new technology of vaccine known as messenger RNA (mRNA). This is why they are much more expensive and need much colder storage conditions.

The Moderna vaccine can actually be stored at ordinary fridge temperatures (4°C) for 30 days before use, though is despatched frozen.

 

As far as I know there  are no AstraZeneca type (adenovirus vector vaccines) that have been approved for human use, so I am not sure why you consider them "tried and true"?

 

Both mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines in fact work in extremely similar ways - they enter human cells and cause the cells to make the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which then is recognised as foreign by the immune system.

 

As far as I know the only human viral based vaccine is for Ebola, but this is not the same principle- instead the virus injected is itself the actual antigen. It is a virus that has been modified so that its outer coat contains a glycoprotein from the Ebola virus. In this case the injected virus is not causing human cells to make a foreign protein, it is the foreign protein.

 

EDIT:  I may be wrong here one version of the EBOLA vaccine may actually be an adenovirus causing human cells to express an EBOLA protein , that is recently approved and licensed Ad26.ZEBOV.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by partington

[RickBradford]

8 minutes ago, partington said:

As far as I know there  are no AstraZeneca type (adenovirus vector vaccines) that have been approved for human use, so I am not sure why you consider them "tried and true"?

 

"Currently, adenovirus-based vaccines are used against a wide variety of pathogens, including Mycobacterium tuberculosis, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and Plasmodium falciparum."

 

https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-Adenovirus-Based-Vaccines.aspx

[partington]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

 

"Currently, adenovirus-based vaccines are used against a wide variety of pathogens, including Mycobacterium tuberculosis, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and Plasmodium falciparum."

 

https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-are-Adenovirus-Based-Vaccines.aspx

This article is not referring to approved and licensed vaccines but ones that are being investigated. It is rather vaguely written to be honest and not up to scratch. 

 

There are very many mRNA vaccines being "used" against cancer and other diseases that are at the same stage, that is under clinical investigation.

 

If you can come up with a licensed and approved one I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong!

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, partington said:

This article is not referring to approved and licensed vaccines but ones that are being investigated. It is rather vaguely written to be honest and not up to scratch. 

 

There are very many mRNA vaccines being "used" against cancer and other diseases that are at the same stage, that is under clinical investigation.

 

If you can come up with a licensed and approved one I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong!

Scientists have been testing adenovirus-based vaccines for decades, but it wasn’t until July of this year that the first one was licensed, when Johnson & Johnson got approval from European regulators for an Ebola vaccine.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine.html

[partington]

10 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Scientists have been testing adenovirus-based vaccines for decades, but it wasn’t until July of this year that the first one was licensed, when Johnson & Johnson got approval from European regulators for an Ebola vaccine.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine.html

Yes that is the actual single one I mentioned!

 

The whole point  of my post was to question why you would say that something that there is only a single example of is "tried and true".

 

Scientists have also been testing mRNA vaccines for many years ! 

https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

 

"Infectious diseases

Clinical trials have been carried out or are ongoing on mRNA vaccines for influenza, cytomegalovirus, HIV-1, rabies and Zika virus.

Case study: A recent study3 explored the use of programmable self-replicating RNA vaccines, delivered in a nanoparticle, for a range of infectious diseases including Ebola virus, H1N1 Influenza and Toxoplasma gondii, which were effective in mice. These vaccines can be manufactured in approximately one week and made against a range of diseases, demonstrating potential terms of swift response to disease outbreaks.

Cancer vaccines

Cancer vaccines are a form of immunotherapy, where the vaccine triggers the immune system into targeting the cancer. Both dendritic cell vaccines and personalised cancer vaccines, where the RNA sequence in the vaccine is designed to code for cancer-specific antigens, are being explored. Over 50 clinical trials are listed on clinicaltrials.gov for RNA vaccines in a number of cancers, including blood cancers, melanoma, glioblastoma (brain cancer) and prostate cancer."

 

 

[RickBradford]

Perhaps I see mRNA vaccines as new technology because that is the way that CDC describes them:

 

"mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

[partington]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

Perhaps I see mRNA vaccines as new technology because that is the way that CDC describes them:

 

"mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine to protect against infectious diseases. To trigger an immune response, many vaccines put a weakened or inactivated germ into our bodies. Not mRNA vaccines. Instead, they teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

All right I won't go on about this, but the whole point is that adenovirus vaccines ALSO 'teach our cells how to make a protein', and so their principle is the same as mRNA vaccines.

 

One could be tempted to say mRNA vaccines are as tried and true as adenovirus vaccines since there are now two different mRNA vaccines approved and licensed for human use ( Moderna,  Pfizer) with many millions of people having been injected, and three approved and licensed adenovirus based vaccines (Astra Zeneca, Russian Sputnik, J&J Ebola)

[GroveHillWanderer]

15 hours ago, RickBradford said:

Perhaps I see mRNA vaccines as new technology because that is the way that CDC describes them

Your own quotation from the CDC contradicts what you've just said.

 

Quote

"mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine"

 

So it doesn't say mRNA vaccines are new technology, it says they are a new vaccine type. And in terms of licensure, that is true.

 

However the technology itself is not new - it has been in use for over three decades, mostly as a method of treating cancer.

 

For instance, as the article below points out:

 

Quote

"In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make [mRNA technology] work in mice."

 

The story of mRNA

 

I guess it depends on what you call "new technology" but for me if something has been in use for over 30 years, I wouldn't consider it to be particularly new.

Edited January 19, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[BobinBKK]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:41 AM, robblok said:

So what.. why do you expect the Thai government to take care of you. You are not Thai. I don't mind paying a private hospital. Also GF her company is looking into getting the vaccine themselves they are a medical company. I don't see the problem of governments not taking care of non Thais. 

We made choices when we came here.. why expect a government to take care of us. If you want that then go back to your home country. There you are being taken care of have more rights.

Many of our "home countries" give money in foreign aid packages to Thailand from "our tax dollars" so yeah, I expect consideration. I don't mind paying for it at cost, not some inflated  ???? ???? price ????

[robblok]

11 hours ago, BobinBKK said:

Many of our "home countries" give money in foreign aid packages to Thailand from "our tax dollars" so yeah, I expect consideration. I don't mind paying for it at cost, not some inflated  ???????? price ????

Then get a reality check as that is not how it works int he real world.

[BobinBKK]

On 20/01/2021 at 8:11 AM, robblok said:

Then get a reality check as that is not how it works int he real world.

Hence my loathing of ungrateful people all over the world ????  And believe me, I am NOT alone in my way of thinking ????