Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status, sparking row

[Caldera]

I would have thought Boris the Clown has his hands full with more important matters.

 

[RayC]

Imo a trivial matter and all a bit petty and precious. Surely there are bigger issues to worry about?

 

Petty on the part of the UK government. What precedent and problem(s) would be created by granting this status?

 

Precious on the part of the EU: How does the withholding of this status affect their ability to engage with the UK?

[nauseus]

16 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If the UK wants to break up diplomatic relationships, I guess their diplomats could be treated equally in Brussels, Paris and Berlin. 
 

 

 

 

Just Brussels.

[natway09]

Come  on Boris,,,, sour grapes, be very careful, you have many Ambassadors overseas who need this status in EU countries

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Indeed Trump did backpedal, and I think the UK government will have to stop this silly humiliation.

 

I bet the EU will prevail, who wants to bet against me ?

 

 

 

Now we are not there, some open questions are :

• "how will we get there and when"?
• "should/will the EU take counter-measures and which ones?"
• "will there be some second-rate ajustement in which the E.U. ambassador will still not be allowed to present credentials to the queen"?

It seems EU foreign policy can sometimes be confusing where the EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell doesn't always agree with Foreign Policy statements issued by all of the member states

 

 

Borrell told MEPs that it wasn’t him but rather EU countries and the difficult procedures of the Council of the EU, where foreign policy decisions require unanimity, that were to blame for the phrasing.

“The text you are referring is not a statement [by myself] but … a unanimous statement by the 27 EU member states,” the former Spanish foreign minister told Parliament. “They are the ones who approved this communication which sets out the position of the Council.”

Borrell even suggested that he might disagree with the statement: “Obviously the European Parliament can have a different position and the European Commission may have as well,” said the foreign policy chief, who is a member of European Commission  President Ursula von der Leyen’s College of Commissioners.

https://www.politico.eu/article/josep-borrell-says-hes-not-to-blame-for-controversial-eu-statement-on-venezuela/

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Just Brussels.

Or in all capitals. 

[George Aylesham]

19 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

In what way?

To lose EU support in dozens of issues affecting British national interests - e.g. The Falklands, Diego Garcia, WTO, the British seat on the UN Security Council  . . . . . . .

[George Aylesham]

18 hours ago, Loiner said:

No, its for the UK decide his diplomatic status or not in the UK.

True - but yet another shoot in the foot decision.

[George Aylesham]

16 hours ago, Loiner said:

Most of the world is happy to sign deals with U.K.  

 

You should just be happy with your jar full. 

True - but under vastly inferior conditions. The UK simply doesn't have the same weight in trade negotiations as the EU.

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, George Aylesham said:

To lose EU support in dozens of issues affecting British national interests - e.g. The Falklands, Diego Garcia, WTO, the British seat on the UN Security Council  . . . . . . .

Will France be giving up their seat on the UN security council to the EU

[Proboscis]

19 hours ago, Loiner said:

No, its for the UK decide his diplomatic status or not in the UK.

That is a dangerous argument on two counts.

First, there is the practicality of the UK diplomatic representation to the EU. If the UK does not recognise the EU, then the EU cannot recognise the UK. This could go wrong for the UK if other member states take it upon themselves to not recognise the UK.

Second, there is the theoretical argument. There are other federations of states, including the USA. Once could take the British Foreign Office argument and say that the individual states of the USA are like countries and therefore the USA is really in the same category as the EU - therefore the USA cannot be represented, only the individual states (by the way, individual states are often represented in certain parts of the world but mostly as commercial offices encouraging investment or trade).

 

The argument against the USA being a mere "international" organization as in a federation of states is that it has its own currency, central bank, parliament, president, law and judiciary. But then, so does the EU.

 

There is also another argument. Taking away full diplomatic status because you are a sore winner (well, the UK got what it wanted!) is terrible foreign policy. In fact, often one has to hold one's nose over strict protocol matters just so as to get the job done - take any of a number of instances involving Donald Trump where he managed to cause trouble and insult leaders and whole nations - many of those leaders just swallowed the insults just so as to get the job done.

[Srikcir]

The USA is not a "nation state."

It is a union of 50 sovergn states, each with its own head of state (governors) and legislative body.

Will it too be denied diplomatic full status?

Note that the UK negotiated a trade deal with the EU and not with its individual sovergn member states. Perhaps given UK not granting EU diplomats full full status, its trade deal should be considered invalid.

[Srikcir]

The USA is not a "nation state."

It is a union of 50 sovergn states, each with its own head of state (governors) and legislative body.

Will it too be denied diplomatic full status?

Note that the UK negotiated a trade deal with the EU and not with its individual sovergn member states. Perhaps given UK not granting EU diplomats full full status, its trade deal should be considered invalid.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

I would have thought Boris the Clown has his hands full with more important matters.

 

He has, and he’s in need of a distraction, tossing a bone to his nationalist supporters will do nicely.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

Imo a trivial matter and all a bit petty and precious. Surely there are bigger issues to worry about?

 

Petty on the part of the UK government. What precedent and problem(s) would be created by granting this status?

 

Precious on the part of the EU: How does the withholding of this status affect their ability to engage with the UK?

The right of officials carrying documents across the UK border to not have their documents searched is one obvious example.

[pixelaoffy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He has, and he’s in need of a distraction, tossing a bone to his nationalist supporters will do nicely.

Nah.  Telling the wanna be federalist  EU you are not a country/state  and you don't have  the rights of such .. when it becomes United States of Europe we'll have another look !

Edited January 22, 2021 by pixelaoffy

[Chomper Higgot]

21 hours ago, Loiner said:

Quite right too. He can keep the same status as previously held with the EU Delegation. There's no need for a post-Brexit upgrade for an organisation that is not even a proper country.

The United Nations is not a country but it’s officers enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

 

 

[tgw]

the UK is not a nation-state either, let's have ambassadors from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland instead.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Nah.  Telling the wanna be federalist  EU you are not a country/state  and you don't have  the rights of such .. when it becomes United States of Europe we'll have another look !

Refer  my comment on UN (not a country) staff enjoying diplomatic immunity above.

 

It exposes the gaping hole in your argument.

[pixelaoffy]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Refer  my comment on UN (not a country) staff enjoying diplomatic immunity above.

 

It exposes the gaping hole in your argument.

Nonsense ! And it's not just about diplomatic immunity! Gaping hole in something else of yours 

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The United Nations is not a country but it’s officers enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

It doesn’t even matter. If the U.K. wants to keep diplomatic status for its diplomats, then they’ll have to give it to EU diplomats, it’s as simple as that (which is why Boris will soon backpaddle and have made a fool of himself again). 

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The United Nations is not a country but it’s officers enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

 

 

And the EU enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

It is understood that the Foreign Office is affording the EU the same level of diplomatic protection as other international organisations and this is considered sufficient for the staff. The protection includes embassy property and documents being inviolable, and some staff being exempt from taxes. No staff can be prosecuted for acts committed in the course of their diplomatic duties.

The head of the mission’s residential home is also inviolable, and they are not required to pay any taxes or open personal baggage at airports.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/21/uk-insists-it-will-not-grant-eu-ambassador-full-diplomatic-status

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The right of officials carrying documents across the UK border to not have their documents searched is one obvious example.

 

No one likes to be searched, but why should such a scenario prevent EU officials performing their duties? Should officials of ASEAN be afforded the same privileges as the EU?

 

I can only repeat my previous comment. Quite why the UK wants to make an issue of this escapes me. Equally, I find the overly precious response from the EU unedifying, given there are much bigger issues to resolve.

 

 

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It seems EU foreign policy can sometimes be confusing where the EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell doesn't always agree with Foreign Policy statements issued by all of the member states

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/josep-borrell-says-hes-not-to-blame-for-controversial-eu-statement-on-venezuela/

I do not understand what you mean and how it relates to Venezuela

 

What is your personal position on this matter?

• is this another of many petty harassment by the national-populist British Government? 
• Is this a just decision as the EU should not enjoy equal standing as a nation-state, and the foreign office should maintain that symbol at all costs?

[sungod]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The United Nations is not a country but it’s officers enjoy Functional Diplomatic Immunity.

 

 

Which is different from Diplomatic Immunity

[sungod]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Refer  my comment on UN (not a country) staff enjoying diplomatic immunity above.

 

It exposes the gaping hole in your argument.

 

You were right in your other post about 'functional' diplomatic immunity. Its not the same as diplomatic immunity.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I do not understand what you mean and how it relates to Venezuela

 

What is your personal position on this matter?

• is this another of many petty harassment by the national-populist British Government? 
• Is this a just decision as the EU should not enjoy equal standing as a nation-state, and the foreign office should maintain that symbol at all costs?

We have already established that the EU isn't a nation state

The EU  Foreign Affairs and Security Policy published this letter 6th January 2021

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/01/06/venezuela-declaration-by-the-high-representative-on-behalf-of-the-european-union-on-the-situation/

But EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell stated that the statement “The text you are referring is not a statement [by myself] but … a unanimous statement by the 27 EU member states,” the former Spanish foreign minister told Parliament. “They are the ones who approved this communication which sets out the position of the Council.”

Borrell even suggested that he might disagree with the statement: “Obviously the European Parliament can have a different position and the European Commission may have as well,” said the foreign policy chief, who is a member of European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen’s College of Commissioners.

https://www.politico.eu/article/josep-borrell-says-hes-not-to-blame-for-controversial-eu-statement-on-venezuela/

So there we have it European Commission have a viewpoint that doesn't always agree with  an unanimous statement by the 27 EU member states that they represent

 

 

 

 

[Hi from France]

I still do not understand clearly what your position on what the UK should do now ????

[puipuitom]

20 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Rather sounds like a Federal State - say it isn't so!

Not even one Brit, who has anything to say or have influence on since 01 Jan 2021, 00:00:01

Edited January 22, 2021 by puipuitom

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

All requests for veterinary checks for fish diary and meat to apply at the EU embassy in the UK. Same for visa for a stay longer than 90 days inside the Schengen Agreement. Can also de done at  the EU embassy in Dublin. See, how quick Boris the Liar lies on his knees to beg for mercy.

The EU doesn't have an embassy in the UK or Dublin as for visas for longer that 90 days inside the Schengen travel zone you apply to whatever country your planning to stay German embassy for Germany Greek embassy for Greece