Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status, sparking row

[candide]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Having said that, I wish someone would explain what the UK hopes to achieve by this petty gesture?

That's a good question! IMO it's a matter of internal politics: a symbolic move to motivate his base and distract attention from other issues. From what I can read in this thread, it seems to work.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Silly statement, the UK recognizes fully diplomats from each individual sovereign European country as they should afford the UK the same right.

And the EU states recognize the UK’s diplomats as long as their diplomats — all of them — get recognized. ???? 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

Look on the bright side my dear chap - your written English has come on by leaps and bounds since you started posting regularly on matters relating to the United Kingdom and "Brexit". One could almost imagine that you are an Englishman pretending to be a Frenchman!

Don't tell me there are still small scale complotist here believing that?

 

Now in addition to having some fun I do learn vocabulary (the last thing being trappings of statehood reading about an ambassadors' job), but I've watched ETTC a lot lately, so I know all about Jack and Jill in Ensuites which is more real estate vocabulary than "Brexit speak" ????

 

 

Now @candideI do not think Britain resisting giving EU diplomats full status is a distraction, as the row started under Theresa May

 

This is a serious issue, even if it seems irrelevant at first, like fishing. 

 

. 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Hi from France

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

First, I'm <vexed>. You know I'm fine with Brexit and having the UK as an external, no-veto third party, but I'm as <vexed> as with any third country doing that, including Trump's US.

 

Ok this is just a symbol, like the UE ambassador will be called last after ambassadors of minor countries at ceremonies.

 

so yes this is just petty, as the UK is now but it does mean a lot

 

I can understand your frustration. At the risk of incorrectly paraphrasing @candide, the only explanation for this petty action on the part of the UK seems to be that Johnson is attempting to court (further) favour with the anti-EU element of the Tory party. It is totally unnecessary but ....

 

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

 

second as the BBC said

this might have very very real consequences down the line for our diplomats

 

what "very very real consequences ... for our diplomats" does it entail? An increased physical threat to individual's safety? A threat to the EU institutions? In both cases, how so?

 

The only real consequence that I can currently see is some bruised egos.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

No the EU is not a state like the US.... A more proper term would be that it is 'Confederation' of sovereign states who have agreed to harmonize trade into a common market with a common currency (with provisions for opting out of the common currency).  This harmonization leads to common standards and a common regulation framework with regards to standards. 

 

Countries DO NOT have friends, they have relationships with countries that have common interests... but I would not consider a country a friend - as when it comes down to it - they have a duty to act in their own self interest.

 

Why should the UK be treated special to any other country that is not part of the EU and also has common interests (US, Canada)?

Which does not entitle their EU Ambassador to full diplomatic immunity as the US Ambassador enjoys.

 

As you confirm, the EU is not even a friendly entity, whose Ambassador could have full diplomatic immunity bestowed upon him. Vale de Almeida had better behave himself.

[Opl]

B. Johnson inspired by Trump

Trump administration downgrades EU mission to US | Americas| North and South American news impacting on Europe | DW | 08.01.2019

Ambassador at center of US confusion set to leave Washington – POLITICO 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Opl

[VocalNeal]

4 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

There are lots of diplomats that are for international organization (though often representing a country to organization HQ) [NATO being one].  The difference between of course with NATO is since it is not a trading block there is not the need for diplomats to represent NATO as a whole

 

Their wives drive on the wrong side of the road. Kill motorcyclists and then flee the country? 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Which does not entitle their EU Ambassador to full diplomatic immunity as the US Ambassador enjoys.

Nor is an UK diplomat entitled to any status. It’s completely up to the host; the UK can deny EU diplomats diplomatic status and so can EU states do with UK diplomats. Which would happen if Boris weren’t going to backpedal (which he will, of course, same as his buddy Donald). 

 

[sungod]

9 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And the EU states recognize the UK’s diplomats as long as their diplomats — all of them — get recognized. ???? 

I think you are confused, sovereign states will always recognise sovereign states, its the made up ones the UK is not recognising with full diplomatic status.

 

If the EU missions did not recognise UK diplomats that's one thing, but if EU sovereign countries downgraded UK diplomatic status, that would be an escalation on their behalf.

 

I can see why you are confused, you are mixing up the EU with a real country (common mistake to make) thats what the UK is trying to clarify with the appropriate status.

Edited January 23, 2021 by sungod

[2530Ubon]

3 hours ago, sungod said:

I think you are confused, sovereign states will always recognise sovereign states, its the made up ones the UK is not recognising with full diplomatic status.

 

If the EU missions did not recognise UK diplomats that's one thing, but if EU sovereign countries downgraded UK diplomatic status, that would be an escalation on their behalf.

 

I can see why you are confused, you are mixing up the EU with a real country (common mistake to make) thats what the UK is trying to clarify with the appropriate status.

 

I agree that the EU should not have the same diplomatic status as a country. It isn't one. The EU commission can't do anything without the agreement of all 27 member states. Those individual member states can declare war - the EU expressly can't. There should be certain priviliges afforded to those who could potentially go to war with you.

 

However, we signed a treaty ten or so years ago that said we would give the EU ambassador full diplomatic immunity. Agree with it or disagree with it, we must uphold our values and honor this agreement. We shouldn't be childlishly gleeful that Boris is poking the EU in the eye, we should be mortified that we're breaking another signed agreement. Shameful.

 

Foolish to fight about this, we still don't have an agreement in place for our services sector (80.6%) of the economy. Banks and financial companies have been skuttling out of London and setting up European headquarters. Our jobs and money are leaving with them. Is this a cheeky Boris manoever to distract us form the truth with some petty nationalism?

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

I think you are confused, sovereign states will always recognise sovereign states, its the made up ones the UK is not recognising with full diplomatic status.

 

If the EU missions did not recognise UK diplomats that's one thing, but if EU sovereign countries downgraded UK diplomatic status, that would be an escalation on their behalf.

 

I can see why you are confused, you are mixing up the EU with a real country (common mistake to make) thats what the UK is trying to clarify with the appropriate status.

Are you referring to the UK that up until 1 month ago was recognising the EU representatives with full diplomatic status?

[pixelaoffy]

UK not in the EU. Not recognized as a country , even though EU thinks it is a federal state .. ...get over it Europhile losers 

Edited January 23, 2021 by pixelaoffy

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

I think you are confused, sovereign states will always recognise sovereign states, its the made up ones the UK is not recognising with full diplomatic status.

 

If the EU missions did not recognise UK diplomats that's one thing, but if EU sovereign countries downgraded UK diplomatic status, that would be an escalation on their behalf.

 

I can see why you are confused, you are mixing up the EU with a real country (common mistake to make) thats what the UK is trying to clarify with the appropriate status.

You are allowed to find it confusing, but I’m afraid you’ll have to accept reality: sovereign states can do as they like. Guess what, otherwise they wouldn’t be sovereign. Come on, as a Brexiteer you should know that after having preached sovereignty for the last five years. ???? 
 

But then it doesn’t really matter. Your Boris will backpaddle as usual before EU states have to return the favor. All just the usual hot air from your clown in chief, straight out of the Trump playbook. ???? 
 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by welovesundaysatspace

[vinny41]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Are you referring to the UK that up until 1 month ago was recognising the EU representatives with full diplomatic status?

That is incorrect as stated here

The Foreign Office is insisting he and his officials should not have the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention.

It is understood not to want to set a precedent by treating an international body in the same way as a nation state.

and here

In his letter to Mr Raab last November, seen by the BBC, Mr Borrell says: "Your service have sent us a draft proposal for an establishment agreement about which we have serious concerns.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55742664

[sungod]

35 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

but I’m afraid you’ll have to accept reality: sovereign states can do as they like.

Finally we agree!

 

 

[sungod]

37 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Your Boris will backpaddle as usual before EU states have to return the favor.

 

Now you are confused again, you dont get it do you?

 

Individual EU states will not do that, the UK is not treating them in this way.

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

Now you are confused again, you dont get it do you?

 

Individual EU states will not do that, the UK is not treating them in this way.

You don’t know how EU member states will return the favor. And you won’t know, because Boris will backpaddle before ???? 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You don’t know how EU member states will return the favor. And you won’t know, because Boris will backpaddle before ???? 

Well we will just have to wait and see what the Germans decide to do....????

[sungod]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And you won’t know, because Boris will backpaddle before

Possible after he gets what he wants..... Its called politics.

[welovesundaysatspace]

25 minutes ago, sungod said:

Possible after he gets what he wants..... Its called politics.

Boris getting what he wants — given all his u-turns that would be something new.

[Loiner]

15 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Nor is an UK diplomat entitled to any status. It’s completely up to the host; the UK can deny EU diplomats diplomatic status and so can EU states do with UK diplomats. Which would happen if Boris weren’t going to backpedal (which he will, of course, same as his buddy Donald). 

 

U.K. diplomats already enjoy reciprocal full diplomatic status in their respective European countries.

There is no country called the EU, just an imaginary Eutopia based in Belgium. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

U.K. diplomats already enjoy reciprocal full diplomatic status in their respective European countries.

There is no country called the EU, just an imaginary Eutopia based in Belgium. 

Non of that changes anything what I wrote: if the UK wants to keep diplomatic status for its diplomats, it better grants the same to EU diplomats, otherwise EU countries might return the favor. I doubt anyone cares about who you consider a country. 

[candide]

3 hours ago, sungod said:

Possible after he gets what he wants..... Its called politics.

What does he want?

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Non of that changes anything what I wrote: if the UK wants to keep diplomatic status for its diplomats, it better grants the same to EU diplomats, otherwise EU countries might return the favor. I doubt anyone cares about who you consider a country. 

And if they don't consider our EU diplomats I'll take my ball home. ????????

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Non of that changes anything what I wrote: if the UK wants to keep diplomatic status for its diplomats, it better grants the same to EU diplomats, otherwise EU countries might return the favor. I doubt anyone cares about who you consider a country. 

How have you decided that other EU countries "...might return the favor..." to UK diplomats? You are making it up.

Other countries might not give two monkeys about what happens to the EU plastic bureaucrats. Or they could find their own real diplomats having their full immunity downgraded.

[sungod]

2 hours ago, candide said:

What does he want?

No idea, haven't spoke with him in a while

 

[Hi from France]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:03 PM, RayC said:

 what "very very real consequences ... for our diplomats" does it entail? An increased physical threat to individual's safety? 

As detailed in several articles, EU ambassadors are much more outspoken regarding democracy, freedom of speech etc.. while traditional ambassadors are much more "diplomatic". 

 

So the articles and the EU diplomats themselves explains they are more often harassed by authoritarian regimes. 

[Hi from France]

11 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

UK not in the EU. Not recognized as a country , even though EU thinks it is a federal state .. ...get over it Europhile losers 

I do not think that we'll get over it, I think we'll just (politely) strong-arm this national-populist government. 

 

Can't wait to see how and how long it will take. 

 

For starters, I suggest giving the 30-days notice for one of the 28 equivalences in financial services. 

 

Then just wait while we "get back control" and get the funds, markets and jobs in Dublin, Paris, Amsterdam wherever. 

 

Rinse, repeat 

 

How long will the UK hold up? A few days? More? Will Johnson beat the current Trump record of 3 months? 

 

Or is he going to backpedal and we'll see the EU ambassador present his credentials to the queen this very week? 

 

 

. 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I do not think that we'll get over it, I think we'll just (politely) strong-arm this national-populist government. 

 

Can't wait to see how and how long it will take. 

 

For starters, I suggest giving the 30-days notice for one of the 28 equivalences in financial services. 

 

Then just wait while we "get back control" and get the funds, markets and jobs in Dublin, Paris, Amsterdam wherever. 

 

Rinse, repeat 

 

How long will the UK hold up? A few days? More? Will Johnson beat the current Trump record of 3 months? 

 

Or is he going to backpedal and we'll see the EU ambassador present his credentials to the queen this very week? 

 

 

. 

 

In your dreams 

[Hi from France]

19 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In your dreams 

Usually your posts have a bit more content

 

Tell us more, what are your own predictions and why?