Is anyone else experiencing a shift in staff demographics?

[sanooki]

Hi, I'm a university lecturer finishing my 7th year, second term at a Rajabhat. I will try to keep this generic and PC, as well as sticking to observable facts rather than my potentially biased view. When I started here, there were 2 other native speakers in my department, with a total of 4 slots. We also had a language center that had a couple more or so native speakers. We've had, over my time, several new hurdles appearing yearly. I have succeeded in clearing them every year. One year we lost a teacher due to an apparent disputed diploma. I was compelled to prove my degree to the international department. The lost teacher was replaced by the wife of a teacher from the language center. They are from an island country that speaks English as a second language. The next year we were told we all needed Masters degrees. My other office colleague left soon. He was replaced by someone from a big Asian country to the west where they also speak English as a second language. I didn't have the required degree either, but hung around long enough to find out there was a grandfather clause allowing me to stay. I also faced the 60 year-old retirement age challenge that year, but eventually learned at my school foreigners can work until 70. This year, fueled by CV (?), they decided to close the language center. I heard they would keep the staff on until their contacts were finished, and pick up a teacher from there into our group. This week, I learned they lost the two native speakers, who both had earned their Masters degrees, and decided to keep someone from the island country I mentioned earlier. I also learned last week that they are likely in the process of reneging on the grandfather clause that allowed me to stay the past two years. So, I'm effectively facing my last semester here, after which they will no longer have any native speakers at this uni. I have consistently received over 90% on my reviews, and been told students say I am a very good and caring teacher. Long story. My question is: Is anyone else seeing similar movements? I have my own suspicions, of course...

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Terrible this is happening to you, with valuable experience and glowing reviews.

 

Cheap Charlies. They can pay those Asian English speakers as low as 50% the salary of Westerners. It doesn't happen too much at my mid-tier private secondary school, as parents still demand Westerners for at least English subject teachers, while for other subjects taught in English they get other countries. That's where I suggest you try next. There's still good demand as many Westerners still can't enter the country. Age shouldn't be an issue, as I've seen many older teachers at these schools.

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Terrible this is happening to you, with valuable experience and glowing reviews.

 

Cheap Charlies. They can pay those Asian English speakers as low as 50% the salary of Westerners. It doesn't happen too much at my mid-tier private secondary school, as parents still demand Westerners for at least English subject teachers, while for other subjects taught in English they get other countries. That's where I suggest you try next. There's still good demand as many Westerners still can't enter the country. Age shouldn't be an issue, as I've seen many older teachers at these schools.

I personally know of two teachers well in their 70's teaching at an international school.

[foreverlomsak]

14 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

as I've seen many older teachers at these schools.

I was the last remaining Westerner at my school and was terminated at the end of the semester following my 60th birthday. It was not just me, very few Thai were retained after 60, it was policy for the school, which did Kindergarten, Primary and the first 3 years of Secondary.

[sanooki]

34 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Terrible this is happening to you, with valuable experience and glowing reviews.

 

Cheap Charlies. They can pay those Asian English speakers as low as 50% the salary of Westerners. It doesn't happen too much at my mid-tier private secondary school, as parents still demand Westerners for at least English subject teachers, while for other subjects taught in English they get other countries. That's where I suggest you try next. There's still good demand as many Westerners still can't enter the country. Age shouldn't be an issue, as I've seen many older teachers at these schools.

Thanks for your response. I think they pay them the same salary as me here, but not sure. The difference is that they have the Masters degrees. I will look into private schools. Before coming here, I worked for a couple high schools, which used up my license exemptions, so I'm not sure what the situation will be for me now in the lower levels. I'm also considering storefronts and online, as I now have experience with that. ???? I'll likely take my social security later this year, as well.

 

I know there's a shortage of teachers, but hearing about the government's pronouncements about accepting the loss of the 20% of the economy that was tourism, I get the sense that native English is being de-prioritized at government schools. Not sure.

[sanooki]

22 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

I was the last remaining Westerner at my school and was terminated at the end of the semester following my 60th birthday. It was not just me, very few Thai were retained after 60, it was policy for the school, which did Kindergarten, Primary and the first 3 years of Secondary.

Sorry to hear. I knew that happens in some places and came close to facing it myself.

[teacherclaire]

17 hours ago, sanooki said:

Thanks for your response. I think they pay them the same salary as me here, but not sure. The difference is that they have the Masters degrees. I will look into private schools. Before coming here, I worked for a couple high schools, which used up my license exemptions, so I'm not sure what the situation will be for me now in the lower levels. I'm also considering storefronts and online, as I now have experience with that. ???? I'll likely take my social security later this year, as well.

 

I know there's a shortage of teachers, but hearing about the government's pronouncements about accepting the loss of the 20% of the economy that was tourism, I get the sense that native English is being de-prioritized at government schools. Not sure.

I'm very sorry to hear of your misfortune. If I were you, I'd keep the social security by paying in 432 baht/month.
You have six months to apply for it after your employment ended.
It's worth gold.  
Best of luck! 

[JimHuaHin]

I regret to say that I know of similar cases at several provincial Thai universities, where qualified native English speakers have been forced out and replaced by non-native English speakers from nearby Asian countries.

 

Although the new lecturers maybe paid the same as the replaced lecturers, the new lecturers generally have a substantially greater class contact teaching load than the replaced lecturers

 

I have also heard through young Thai friends of students complaining to Thai staff (and families and friends) about the very poor English communication skills, as well as numerous grammatical errors, of some of the new non-native English speaking staff.  For example, my ex-gf's daughter sent me a couple of her "corrected" English assignments graded by her lecturer (from a large country to the west of Thailand); the young student had made a few mistakes in her assignments, but her lecturer made substantially more mistakes in his corrections and comments.  She also sent me a 15 minute audio recording of one of the lecturer's classes; I not only had difficulty understanding his English, but he made numerous grammatical mistakes.

 

Good luck.

[Hanuman2547]

It's also about the money.  When it gets down to it, it's always about the money.  They can pay an Asian face quite a bit less and give them more contact hours.  Sure the quality goes down quite a bit but since when were Thais concerned about the quality of a product they produce?

[Hanuman2547]

I'm also sorry to hear that you and other Ajarns have been let go.  I hope that you can find another job that is similar to what you were doing.  It is definitely Thailand's loss.

[Solinvictus]

Non-NES especially within bilingual and government schools are not only cheaper but they mix better with Thai staff. I can guarantee you out of just about every school where there are a significant amount of Non-NES, there is a very collective effort for them to be inline with Thai staff including with unprofessional matters within the work environment. Who can blame them? I mean we do have phone chargers. 5555 Just aint me that's for sure.

 

Yes, the staff demographic is changing in some schools. Yes, it is a disadvantage, IMO as putting up with the TIT is one thing but to be surrounded by non-NES also is another.

 

Hope you can find a chill and comfortable place to teach!

 

[sanooki]

7 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

I'm very sorry to hear of your misfortune. If I were you, I'd keep the social security by paying in 432 baht/month.
You have six months to apply for it after your employment ended.
It's worth gold.  
Best of luck! 

Thanks for your well-wishes. That's another sad side-story in my situation. Late last year, I found out that since I am not on the Thai SS but on the uni plan, and I did not sign up for SS before I was 60 even though I was still planning to work more years, I am ineligible now. Nobody in HR bothered to warn me. I blame myself for trusting them.

[sanooki]

6 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

I regret to say that I know of similar cases at several provincial Thai universities, where qualified native English speakers have been forced out and replaced by non-native English speakers from nearby Asian countries.

 

Although the new lecturers maybe paid the same as the replaced lecturers, the new lecturers generally have a substantially greater class contact teaching load than the replaced lecturers

 

I have also heard through young Thai friends of students complaining to Thai staff (and families and friends) about the very poor English communication skills, as well as numerous grammatical errors, of some of the new non-native English speaking staff.  For example, my ex-gf's daughter sent me a couple of her "corrected" English assignments graded by her lecturer (from a large country to the west of Thailand); the young student had made a few mistakes in her assignments, but her lecturer made substantially more mistakes in his corrections and comments.  She also sent me a 15 minute audio recording of one of the lecturer's classes; I not only had difficulty understanding his English, but he made numerous grammatical mistakes.

 

Good luck.

Thank you for your confirming reply. Yes, they earn less at lower levels. Here, they earn the same but are expected to have Masters degrees, (which most westerners will not have.

 if they would, they'd probably be working somewhere making double our salary). Their skills are much lower, even in basic understanding of educational priorities. But, since they are better skilled often than the Thai staff, they are well-considered. And, as said, they are much better "group players," and fit in easier. My boss is afraid to communicate with me (loss of face?), as are many on staff. They fail to check understanding, preferring to take negative possible meanings. I think it's a lack of confidence. The more I try to explain, often the worse things become. I've spent much time trying to figure out how to make them happy. So, maybe we westerners really aren't a good group fit. And, many students at my school don't have strong enough skills to be in my classes. But, I mistakenly believed the idea was for us to bring the level up.

[sanooki]

2 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

It's also about the money.  When it gets down to it, it's always about the money.  They can pay an Asian face quite a bit less and give them more contact hours.  Sure the quality goes down quite a bit but since when were Thais concerned about the quality of a product they produce?

Exactly. They're more concerned about how everyone appears and feels. Truth is way down on the list of objectives, unfortunately.

[sanooki]

2 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

I'm also sorry to hear that you and other Ajarns have been let go.  I hope that you can find another job that is similar to what you were doing.  It is definitely Thailand's loss.

Appreciate your sentiments. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something better.

[sanooki]

41 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

Non-NES especially within bilingual and government schools are not only cheaper but they mix better with Thai staff. I can guarantee you out of just about every school where there are a significant amount of Non-NES, there is a very collective effort for them to be inline with Thai staff including with unprofessional matters within the work environment. Who can blame them? I mean we do have phone chargers. 5555 Just aint me that's for sure.

 

Yes, the staff demographic is changing in some schools. Yes, it is a disadvantage, IMO as putting up with the TIT is one thing but to be surrounded by non-NES also is another.

 

Hope you can find a chill and comfortable place to teach!

 

Thanks. I'm partly feeling ready for a change. Really wanted to finish things out here. I did try to fit in and was always open. But there was always the feeling of having a target on my back, as well, passive aggression being the style. I was lucky to have had the chance to do this at all, I guess.

[Tropicalevo]

9 minutes ago, sanooki said:

Thanks. I'm partly feeling ready for a change. Really wanted to finish things out here. I did try to fit in and was always open. But there was always the feeling of having a target on my back, as well, passive aggression being the style. I was lucky to have had the chance to do this at all, I guess.

Good luck in whatever you do next.

Remember that the only person that can stop you from achieving what you want is that little guy inside your head.

Corny I know, but true.

[JimmyJ]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:28 PM, sanooki said:

Hi, I'm a university lecturer finishing my 7th year, second term at a Rajabhat. I will try to keep this generic and PC, as well as sticking to observable facts rather than my potentially biased view. When I started here, there were 2 other native speakers in my department, with a total of 4 slots. We also had a language center that had a couple more or so native speakers. We've had, over my time, several new hurdles appearing yearly. I have succeeded in clearing them every year. One year we lost a teacher due to an apparent disputed diploma. I was compelled to prove my degree to the international department. The lost teacher was replaced by the wife of a teacher from the language center. They are from an island country that speaks English as a second language. The next year we were told we all needed Masters degrees. My other office colleague left soon. He was replaced by someone from a big Asian country to the west where they also speak English as a second language. I didn't have the required degree either, but hung around long enough to find out there was a grandfather clause allowing me to stay. I also faced the 60 year-old retirement age challenge that year, but eventually learned at my school foreigners can work until 70. This year, fueled by CV (?), they decided to close the language center. I heard they would keep the staff on until their contacts were finished, and pick up a teacher from there into our group. This week, I learned they lost the two native speakers, who both had earned their Masters degrees, and decided to keep someone from the island country I mentioned earlier. I also learned last week that they are likely in the process of reneging on the grandfather clause that allowed me to stay the past two years. So, I'm effectively facing my last semester here, after which they will no longer have any native speakers at this uni. I have consistently received over 90% on my reviews, and been told students say I am a very good and caring teacher. Long story. My question is: Is anyone else seeing similar movements? I have my own suspicions, of course...

1 word - Paragraphs.

[Bangyai]

17 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

Hope you can find a chill and comfortable place to teach!

 

I hope he can soon retire and get his feet up. Even better.

[UbonEagle]

Yes unfortunately the covid crisis is being used as an excuse to slash and burn in lots of industries, tho im sure those high up in the education dept are getting the nod from "those in power" for these sorts of "targeted" policy changes.

Unfortunately the standard of english language skills in thai youth will continue to slip lower from the allready poor level it sits at.