How deadly is Lao Khao?

[bendejo]

Some years back was chatting with a fellow who worked in a certain mideast country where booze was a no-no.  He and some other naughty foreigners would put together a concoction, he told me the way to test if it was drinkable was to light some up and see what color the fire was.  Blue was what it had to be.  Called themselves The Brotherhood of the Blue Flame or some such, became the code word for drink in the foreign community.

 

Maybe someone can report the color Lao Khao burns.

 

[Moonlover]

50 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Some years back was chatting with a fellow who worked in a certain mideast country where booze was a no-no.  He and some other naughty foreigners would put together a concoction, he told me the way to test if it was drinkable was to light some up and see what color the fire was.  Blue was what it had to be.  Called themselves The Brotherhood of the Blue Flame or some such, became the code word for drink in the foreign community.

 

Maybe someone can report the color Lao Khao burns.

 

For a while, super markets were importing Jack Daniel's BBQ woodchips (from old J. D. aging barrels). They contained no alcohol of course, so there was no objection from the mutawa (religious watchdogs) providing the J. D. logo was  obliterated.

 

However they changed their minds when they discovered that enterprising white spirit distillers (Siddique or Sid we called it) were 'aging' their product with the woodchips and producing a credible whisky!

 

I used to drink 'Sid' regularly in Saudi Arabia as a long drink with tonic, so Loa Khao  doesn't really faze me that much. It's their country, their way of life. Let them get on with it. Life in the countryside offers them little else by way of entertainment.

 

As Madam Moon says, 'It's up to them'. 

[ThailandRyan]

And then there is this wonderful view and perception

100% Proof - Lao Khao is a Knockout Drink (thaisabai.org)

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

Some years back was chatting with a fellow who worked in a certain mideast country where booze was a no-no.  He and some other naughty foreigners would put together a concoction, he told me the way to test if it was drinkable was to light some up and see what color the fire was.  Blue was what it had to be.  Called themselves The Brotherhood of the Blue Flame or some such, became the code word for drink in the foreign community.

 

Maybe someone can report the color Lao Khao burns.

 

Alcohol burns with a pale blue flame. any other color, it's contaminated with something.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, northsouthdevide said:

I don't know how deadly it is, but a spoonful go's into wy windscreen wiper water along with a drop of detergent. 

Keeps the insects off the window, and a bottle lasts a couple of years. 

Alcohol decreases the surface tension of water, so the windscreen is wetted more effectively.

[wombat]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:12 PM, 1FinickyOne said:

do they die of the booze or the motorcycle accident? Hard to keep stats... 

more like from the methanol that doesn't get separated 

[wombat]

On 1/31/2021 at 11:15 AM, bendejo said:

The Brotherhood of the Blue Flame

 

where i grew up, they were the ones that lit their farts and yelled 'Blue Flame.'
each to his own.

[wombat]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:41 AM, katana said:

some illegal still.

after a few seasons of Moonshiners program, you are awarded a master moonshiners certificate so i believe 

[nervona81732]

Great stuff if you like drinking gasoline. Up to them. You would think the government would have stopped it years and years ago. ended up killing one of my brothers-in law and the second brother in law does not have much time left. Killed his cousin next door too. Pitiful and very sad.

[chilly07]

Rots your guts with a high risk of cancer. High on lao khao no need to eat although increases the desire to smoke. Heavy users look like walking skeletons. Good for cleaning the sink though.

[natway09]

The Health Dept must be aware of the liver damage/Cirrhosis caused by Lao Khao along with the suffering of far too many Thais who die a premature death from the gut rot but loath to

do anything as large factories are owned by influentual people & huge duties paid

I know of 5 who died as a direct result & none over the age of 60

[nervona81732]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:49 PM, Lacessit said:

Alcohol decreases the surface tension of water, so the windscreen is wetted more effectively.

I'm going to try that. Thanks for the tip. I won't even have to buy a small bottle. Plenty around to get just a squirt. LOL.

 

[vogie]

I buy the Red Cock (no jokes please), it must be some sort of Lao Khao, white spirit but completely devoid of any smell. I have some 1.5 Litre Mason jars and fill with quartered oranges, pour in 70cls of the stuff, put in about 4 heaped tablespoons of sugar, let soak for a week or two then I have a tasty Grand Marnier type drink. It was retailing at Big C for 150 baht but have found a small booze shop that sells for 135ish.

[Snackbar]

I know nothing about it so I’ll follow the tone and rant on as if I do.

 

Buy a 50 gram packet of 11 Tigers from the pharmacy, follow directions. Submerge in Lao Kao for 24 - 48 hours. Drink, as prescribed, 20 ml 3 times daily, before breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[onebir]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:59 AM, Lacessit said:

Interesting, I did not know that. Aluminium and tin as metals are corrosion resistant, forming passive surface oxides. Steel and copper do not. A difference in valencies, perhaps.

Yes, I was surprised to discover that (from the first link I posted) too. I assumed the still just removed & condensed the alcohol(s) & they'd stay in more or less the same ratio as the were in when mixed with water (maybe changing a bit dependent on differences in boiling points). My chemistry's not up to sensible speculation about why tho!

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, onebir said:

Yes, I was surprised to discover that (from the first link I posted) too. I assumed the still just removed & condensed the alcohol(s) & they'd stay in more or less the same ratio as the were in when mixed with water (maybe changing a bit dependent on differences in boiling points). My chemistry's not up to sensible speculation about why tho!

 

33 minutes ago, onebir said:

Yes, I was surprised to discover that (from the first link I posted) too. I assumed the still just removed & condensed the alcohol(s) & they'd stay in more or less the same ratio as the were in when mixed with water (maybe changing a bit dependent on differences in boiling points). My chemistry's not up to sensible speculation about why tho!

Ethanol forms an azeotrope with water, when distilled the azeotrope is about 95% alcohol. Whisky and rum distillers are trying to preserve flavors, so they distill at below the boiling point of the azeotrope. I suspect Lao Khao is just straightforward distillation of the azeotrope, may be cut back with some water afterwards. It's certainly fiery enough.

[RocketDog]

48 minutes ago, onebir said:

Yes, I was surprised to discover that (from the first link I posted) too. I assumed the still just removed & condensed the alcohol(s) & they'd stay in more or less the same ratio as the were in when mixed with water (maybe changing a bit dependent on differences in boiling points). My chemistry's not up to sensible speculation about why tho!

Methanol has a boiling point only slightly higher than ethanol. So as the distillation process nears evaporation of most of the ethanol the methanol ratio increases. So distillers usually stop the process before all the methanol has evaporated and just discard the remainder. Trying to get those last few cls is dangerous. 

[onebir]

1 minute ago, RocketDog said:

Methanol has a boiling point only slightly higher than ethanol. So as the distillation process nears evaporation of most of the ethanol the methanol ratio increases. So distillers usually stop the process before all the methanol has evaporated and just discard the remainder. Trying to get those last few cls is dangerous. 

Ok, but why does the metal the still is made of matter? (If that's the actual problem, not trying to 'cut waste'...)

[RocketDog]

11 minutes ago, onebir said:

Ok, but why does the metal the still is made of matter? (If that's the actual problem, not trying to 'cut waste'...)

All metals have varying degrees of interaction with liquids and many metals are toxic, especially when hot. It is inevitable that metal ions and  molecules are removed from a metal surface during use depending on what other elements are present. 

 

Methanol contamination during distillation is the biggest risk in distillation and requires very precise temperature regulation of the mash temperature to ensure that ethanol evaporates while methanol doesn't. Obviously ignoring this with cheap stills run by incompetent operators is the main reason cheap booze can be so poisonous. 

 Glass distillation columns and condensers are of course the best but have limited capacity and are fragile and expensive. Stainless steel is second best. But stainless tube is difficult to bend to make the condenser for homemade rigs. 

So a stainless kettle and lid with a copper tube condenser (surrounded by a water jacket ideally) is acceptable. 

Tin is very dangerous to handle , cook with, or heat, as is lead of course and has no place in a still or kitchen.

 

I avoid aluminum vessels of any type but it's not really clear how toxic it may be. Tin cooking vessels are not sold especially since aluminum became so cheap. 

We call food cans 'tin' because they used to be, steel coated with tin inside to inhibit rust but that ended long ago because it's so toxic. Remember historical references to 'tin soldiers'? These toys were made of lead and tin because of the low melting point. 

Copper pipe is still considered the material of choice for potable water supplies and centuries of use has proven it harmless. 

[Peterphuket]

Important is the different in the 2 alcohols, Methyl and ethylalcohol.

The M from methylalcohol, you'll have to remember as the M from Murder.

Don't forget about alcohol in the LOS, they start early with drinking, I can imagine at 47 years old, your liver don't except it anymore.

But I always saying  it is always relative, my brother passed away when he was 83 years old, smoked and drank all his life.

[khunjeff]

On 1/30/2021 at 9:58 PM, Donekys said:

However, it's only 20% alcohol by volume.

 

Commercially produced lao khao (the homemade moonshine is usually called lao theuan) comes in several different strengths, each with a different colored label. If I recall, the strengths are 28%, 35%, and 40%, but I wouldn't swear to that. I don't think lao khao is more hazardous than any other spirit; it just happens to be the one that is consumed in the highest volumes by serious alcoholics, because it's the cheapest way of getting drunk.

[Jan Dietz]

Lots of incorrect information here, though the end result is the same,

 

Methanol (bad) has a LOWER boiling point than Ethanol (Alcohol)

So when you start cooking it up, it will vaporize first

No need to 'control the temperature carefully' you can't tell it to stay put, temperature will rise slowly while the more volatile liquids boil off.

Just throw away the first bit coming out of the still (heads)

 

After a while the good stuff comes out (Mostly Ethanol)

 

And finally the stuff with a higher boiling point starts cooking off (tails) These still contain alcohol, but start to taste worse and worse.

Once you decide you don't want to drink that anymore, they can go into the next distillation batch.

 

The trick to good booze is deciding where to 'cut'

The trick to cheap booze is also deciding where to cut...

 

[kidneyw]

Have tried sadiqqi in Saudi and Flash in Libya.

Lao khao is okay with sprite.

[Bangyai]

32 minutes ago, Jan Dietz said:

The trick to good booze is deciding where to 'cut'

The trick to cheap booze is also deciding where to cut...hink

 

I think most Lao Khao imbibers are looking to get halfcut.

 

 

 

[Bangyai]

29 minutes ago, kidneyw said:

Have tried sadiqqi in Saudi and Flash in Libya.

Lao khao is okay with sprite.

 

Trust me. Schwepps bitter lemon is much better.

[khunPer]

On 1/30/2021 at 3:58 PM, Donekys said:

However, it's only 20% alcohol by volume.

The 330ml bottle I bought for Xmas is 35 percent (still about got 1/3 left); however not the cheapest. I needed the alcohol the boil extract for the Nordic Xmas drink Glögg, and it worked perfect for that purpose...????

 

I've seen numerous Thais drinking lao khao mixed with red Fanta, kind of favorite, and I've also tasted it, when offered during Song Kran festival – I'm still here, so seems like one can survive when digesting it in modest volume...???? – I presume it's as with any alcoholic drink, if you get too much, your organs end up stop working, with some the brain stops first, by others the liver stop first. I cannot rule out that cheap spirits are more dangerous to consume than better quality and more expensive expensive spirits, especially when consumed in large volume...????

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Methanol has a boiling point only slightly higher than ethanol. So as the distillation process nears evaporation of most of the ethanol the methanol ratio increases. So distillers usually stop the process before all the methanol has evaporated and just discard the remainder. Trying to get those last few cls is dangerous. 

Methanol's boiling point is 64.7 C, ethanol 78.4 C. I think you've got it the wrong way around, it would be the first fraction that needs to be discarded.

[onebir]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

All metals have varying degrees of interaction with liquids and many metals are toxic, especially when hot. It is inevitable that metal ions and  molecules are removed from a metal surface during use depending on what other elements are present.

Apparently so:

Quote

Health and safety concerns emerged at that time after it was discovered that the lao khao distilled in aluminium or tin stills produced a by-product of methanol, from the liquid reacting with the metal; the government had to act. Methanol can cause blindness and even death if consumed in large amounts, and the government took charge. Not everyone who produced lao khao was aware of the dangers so the government took over all of the distilleries in Thailand between 1950-1960, switching to stainless steel stills in the process, which were completely safe [sic].

But there still doesn't seem to be a clear account of what goes on if tin or aluminium is used...

[foreverlomsak]

On 1/30/2021 at 9:40 PM, Lacessit said:

For that money, one can buy enough Lao Khao to get absolutely plastered.

I call it paint stripper

[foreverlomsak]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:11 PM, Orton Rd said:

It's 40 degree not 20, ok if you soak ginseng in it for a couple of months. Ya dong which they sell on the road side is around 20%, some is better than others, some have honey mixed in. That's 50 baht for a small bottle and 30 for an M150 size bottle, never bought a larger one. 

agree it's 40% not 20%, that's probably why one of the local names for it is Cee Sip or 40