What's wrong with Surin Immigration?

[teacherclaire]

 

    

A friend of mine who's got enough of the Mickey Mouse game they are trying to play with him might soon "overreact" and maybe do something foolish.

 

     He'd been on a Non-O for ages, never a problem; he's got the money and had the bank statement, the letter from the embassy, the photos, and all they wanted.

 

  When he arrived the first time, he was sent back to come back with his wife. When he's there with his wife, the sleeping room's photo wasn't good enough anymore, and they were sent back again.

 

  That went on four or five more times, and the poor guy who had a stroke before now drove almost 1,300 km so far and only received a stamp good until February.

 

   The Immigration and coppers were at his house last year and asked the neighbors and the whole program. Now the one Immigration officer seems to dislike him, and he denied the stamp at the last minute at 5.30 pm when all others had already left.

 

 Please don't see this post as a joke, the man is mentally a wrack. The Immigration officer did all he could to upset him, without a reason that I would understand.

 

   Did anybody from Surin make a similar strange experience with this Immigration? The guy can't get anymore, and I fully understand him.

 

Is there an agent in Surin who would go there on his behalf? Please send me a private message if you don't want to post it here.

 

Any tips, suggestions on what the guy could do would be great. Is there a place where he could write a report about this particular officer?

I recall a female Immigration officer in Phiboon who was very rude to foreigners after many reports from unsatisfied foreigners; she was sent to another place somewhere in the middle of nowhere. 

 

He has all the needed documents but was sent back and back and finally only received a few weeks to stay here? 

 

 

    Thank you very much for your time and consideration. It's urgent.  

 

 

 

            

[AndyAndyAndy]

I don't really see any much difference from what I'm going through every year. No matter if I want new visa, driving ID, updating my information in Thai bank... .  You just described standard working thai system.

[KhaoYai]

Sounds like a silent request for a brown envelope.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

I don't really see any much difference from what I'm going through every year. No matter if I want new visa, driving ID, updating my information in Thai bank... .  You just described standard working thai system.

....and long been the case of depending on where one goes, as there's little universal from one imm office to the next. 

One is not required to do business with your "local" staff. 

Find a suitable facility that doesn't play games, hold personal vendettas or unprofessional shenanigans in general. 

[ctxa]

IMO he should just find an agent to do it. Even if said agent charges 5,000THB is that not better than driving 1000km? 

 

I've long learnt that when you deal with immigration, DLT, government, banks.... It's always better to pay someone to do it for you. Each person should put an economic value to their own time. And I can assure you that the time they make me lose from working on my stuff ends up costing me more than paying someone from the begining. And saves me the hassle too. 

[Old Croc]

1 hour ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

I don't really see any much difference from what I'm going through every year. No matter if I want new visa, driving ID, updating my information in Thai bank... .  You just described standard working thai system.

Do  you get sent away to gather more documentation 4 or 5 times and have to drive 1300 km whenever  you do business in Thailand?

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

 

    

A friend of mine who's got enough of the Mickey Mouse game they are trying to play with him might soon "overreact" and maybe do something foolish.

 

     He'd been on a Non-O for ages, never a problem; he's got the money and had the bank statement, the letter from the embassy, the photos, and all they wanted.

 

  When he arrived the first time, he was sent back to come back with his wife. When he's there with his wife, the sleeping room's photo wasn't good enough anymore, and they were sent back again.

 

  That went on four or five more times, and the poor guy who had a stroke before now drove almost 1,300 km so far and only received a stamp good until February.

 

   The Immigration and coppers were at his house last year and asked the neighbors and the whole program. Now the one Immigration officer seems to dislike him, and he denied the stamp at the last minute at 5.30 pm when all others had already left.

 

 Please don't see this post as a joke, the man is mentally a wrack. The Immigration officer did all he could to upset him, without a reason that I would understand.

 

   Did anybody from Surin make a similar strange experience with this Immigration? The guy can't get anymore, and I fully understand him.

 

Is there an agent in Surin who would go there on his behalf? Please send me a private message if you don't want to post it here.

 

Any tips, suggestions on what the guy could do would be great. Is there a place where he could write a report about this particular officer?

I recall a female Immigration officer in Phiboon who was very rude to foreigners after many reports from unsatisfied foreigners; she was sent to another place somewhere in the middle of nowhere. 

 

He has all the needed documents but was sent back and back and finally only received a few weeks to stay here? 

 

 

    Thank you very much for your time and consideration. It's urgent.  

 

 

 

            

So what is he going to do?

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

....and long been the case of depending on where one goes, as there's little universal from one imm office to the next. 

One is not required to do business with your "local" staff. 

Find a suitable facility that doesn't play games, hold personal vendettas or unprofessional shenanigans in general. 

Or just don't take any sh.it from people.

[FritsSikkink]

54 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Do  you get sent away to gather more documentation 4 or 5 times and have to drive 1300 km whenever  you do business in Thailand?

Why should you drive 1300km to start with? The teacher isn't very clear to explain what is happening.

[Old Croc]

10 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Why should you drive 1300km to start with? The teacher isn't very clear to explain what is happening.

She may have been exagerating a little, but I understood that 5 return trips totaling about1300km would mean the person lived about 130 km from Immigration.

Does that help clear up your confusion?

[KhaoYai]

I spoke to my wife about your post because it sounded very similar to what happened to a friend of ours.  Her immediate reaction was '"see a lawyer, they want money and if he pays now, he will pay forever".

 

Our friend had to bow down to the ridiculous things that an I.O. was wanting and eventually got his extension. The next year he reverted to the original basis for requesting an extension (that was previously refused) but used a lawyer to submit it - visa granted.

 

Of course he had to pay but in my book, paying a lawyer is far better than paying a corrupt official.

[KhaoYai]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:04 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Why should you drive 1300km to start with? The teacher isn't very clear to explain what is happening.

Surin is a pretty large province.

[teacherclaire]

On 2/1/2021 at 1:02 AM, FritsSikkink said:

So what is he going to do?

I have no idea. First, he'll have to wait for their visit. 

[teacherclaire]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:10 AM, Old Croc said:

She may have been exagerating a little, but I understood that 5 return trips totaling about1300km would mean the person lived about 130 km from Immigration.

Does that help clear up your confusion?

He told me 1,280 km. I rounded up, that's all. Pretty tough for one extension that wasn't a problem for the last 20 years. 

[teacherclaire]

11 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I spoke to my wife about your post because it sounded very similar to what happened to a friend of ours.  Her immediate reaction was '"see a lawyer, they want money and if he pays now, he will pay forever".

 

Our friend had to bow down to the ridiculous things that an I.O. was wanting and eventually got his extension. The next year he reverted to the original basis for requesting an extension (that was previously refused) but used a lawyer to submit it - visa granted.

 

Of course he had to pay but in my book, paying a lawyer is far better than paying a corrupt official.

Thanks, I've forwarded your message to him. 

[yosib157]

Maybe he didn't have all the necessary paperwork at the time even though he thought he had. Many years ago I was advised that prior to my extension application, I should visit the Immigration Office to get a complete list of requirements. They are (allegedly) there to help foreigners, but there are a few who are jealous of our earnings and do occasionally take a dislike to certain applicants. I would return with all the documents on their list and politely challenge them if they wanted more. Sometimes I missed something and no problem for me to return home in 5 minutes to get it.

 I had a similar problem with a certain member of staff. She was the oldest in the office, lowest in rank and totally bitter to anyone she thought she thought she could bully. This went on for years and I eventually went over to Laos and got the multiple entry, married to a Thai National type Visa. This worked OK but obviously more expensive having to pay for a Laos Visa every 90 days.

 

So, maybe 8 years ago when this visa expired, I returned to the local office where I wrote down all the contact details for the top dogs from the posted list.

I then emailed the Area 4 Commander with copies to the local office and Bangkok. I outlined that (not only in my case) but our office was a hostile environment where staff wouldn't help and people were having to revisit 3 or 4 times because they were either given the wrong information or not enough. But, I didn't name the offending IO and just made it a general complaint.

 

Within a week they sent a car to the house as the Area Commander was indeed visiting and wanted to see me.

I went along on my bike and the interview was calm and relaxed. The boss had an interpreter as his English was poor. However, I could understand enough that his batman would nod in the direction of the awkward IO and I'm guessing they already had received complaints about her.

 

Anyway, after a photocall and much back-slapping I left feeling a lot better. Next time I visited, the offensive woman had been moved to the back office, I got my extension within 20 minutes and the whole office coincidentally was demolished and rebuilt within 18 months. The old woman has since retired and the new staff are firm but helpful and fair.

 

Finally, and IMHO, personally I would never use an agent, lawyer or any third party to secure an extension which is our entitlement. I suggest using their own system to beat them. Keep your cool, take down all the details of the Area Commander, write to them lodging your serious complaint. Naming the IO may work against you but how could your system get any worse?.

 

Good luck and I hope TC posts any progress you make.

[Peter Denis]

That's a dreadful situation.

An obvious power-play by an obnoxious Imm Officer probably solliciting for a 'brown envelope' to have the make-up problems go away.

There are 2 options imo:

1 - Next time you go, refuse to deal with the Imm Officer causing your problems, and politely request to present your case to the officer in charge.  Explaining that this is your 5th or 6th trip already (each time 260 km back-and-forth) will let even the most 'according to the book' officer in charge, understand that this is not normal...  When possible come with a Thai friend (preferably someone with a 'position') that speaks english well, and can help in the conversation with the officer in charge.

2 - Let a Visa Agent do the application for you.  That will cost some money, but as there are no 'fixes' to be made because you meet all the requirements, it will probably be approx 10.000 THB for the service (a marriage extension requires more paper-shuffling than a Retirement extension and is thus more expensive to engage an Agent). 

Note that the Visa Agent might file your extension application at an Imm Office where they have 'connections'.  And if they do so, you would need to 'administratively relocate' back to your original address by filing a TM-30 for relocation purposes at the Surin IO.

 

When you would be on a retirement extension, you could also consider temporarily administratively relocating to a different near-by province and do the application there.  

But when on a Marriage extension that would require too many hoops to jump, hence I will not provide info on that option.

 

>> I did PM you the co-ordinates of a reliable Visa Agent that serves the Isaan and North thailand  provinces, in case you go for option 2. 

[KarenBravo]

On 1/31/2021 at 11:53 PM, zzaa09 said:

....and long been the case of depending on where one goes, as there's little universal from one imm office to the next. 

One is not required to do business with your "local" staff. 

Find a suitable facility that doesn't play games, hold personal vendettas or unprofessional shenanigans in general. 

 

Usually, you are told by immigration to do the extension at the same immigration office as your 90 day reporting and where your TM30 was given.

[teacherclaire]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

That's a dreadful situation.

An obvious power-play by an obnoxious Imm Officer probably solliciting for a 'brown envelope' to have the make-up problems go away.

There are 2 options imo:

1 - Next time you go, refuse to deal with the Imm Officer causing your problems, and politely request to present your case to the officer in charge.  Explaining that this is your 5th or 6th trip already (each time 260 km back-and-forth) will let even the most 'according to the book' officer in charge, understand that this is not normal...  When possible come with a Thai friend (preferably someone with a 'position') that speaks english well, and can help in the conversation with the officer in charge.

2 - Let a Visa Agent do the application for you.  That will cost some money, but as there are no 'fixes' to be made because you meet all the requirements, it will probably be approx 10.000 THB for the service (a marriage extension requires more paper-shuffling than a Retirement extension and is thus more expensive to engage an Agent). 

Note that the Visa Agent might file your extension application at an Imm Office where they have 'connections'.  And if they do so, you would need to 'administratively relocate' back to your original address by filing a TM-30 for relocation purposes at the Surin IO.

 

When you would be on a retirement extension, you could also consider temporarily administratively relocating to a different near-by province and do the application there.  

But when on a Marriage extension that would require too many hoops to jump, hence I will not provide info on that option.

 

>> I did PM you the co-ordinates of a reliable Visa Agent that serves the Isaan and North thailand  provinces, in case you go for option 2. 

Thanks a lot for your great post and the lovely message with plenty of details. I've forwarded it to him, tried to call him, but he didn't take the phone.

 

  I've met this guy after he had a stroke and I am volunteering for organisation that helps people in emergency situations.

 

    He's had a stroke and the wrong doctors gave him the wrong meds and that goes on and on. He's not a bull<deleted>ter, he's a friendly guy who usually stays calm.

 

    He had all needed documents, even more than needed, but the three star guy somehow tries to show his power to him.

 

 I've tried to call him, but he didn't pick up. I can only hope that he listened to me and is reading this thread and your advise as well. I've sent your message to him.

 

     It wouldn't be good if he'd do something stupid. But he definitely can't get any,more of that. 

 

   THanks a lot to all who have given their advice and views on the situation which is really ridiculous.

 

      I'd write a report with all the proof to the main Immigration Bangkok and then see how the guy in question reacts/

 

   He's a law abiding citizen and all he wants is this yearly extension. The IO is constantly making things up that are not laws.

 

   Thanks and a lovely day. 

 

        

 

  

 

             

[teacherclaire]

On 1/31/2021 at 9:52 PM, teacherclaire said:

 

    

A friend of mine who's got enough of the Mickey Mouse game they are trying to play with him might soon "overreact" and maybe do something foolish.

 

     He'd been on a Non-O for ages, never a problem; he's got the money and had the bank statement, the letter from the embassy, the photos, and all they wanted.

 

  When he arrived the first time, he was sent back to come back with his wife. When he's there with his wife, the sleeping room's photo wasn't good enough anymore, and they were sent back again.

 

  That went on four or five more times, and the poor guy who had a stroke before now drove almost 1,300 km so far and only received a stamp good until February.

 

   The Immigration and coppers were at his house last year and asked the neighbors and the whole program. Now the one Immigration officer seems to dislike him, and he denied the stamp at the last minute at 5.30 pm when all others had already left.

 

 Please don't see this post as a joke, the man is mentally a wrack. The Immigration officer did all he could to upset him, without a reason that I would understand.

 

   Did anybody from Surin make a similar strange experience with this Immigration? The guy can't get anymore, and I fully understand him.

 

Is there an agent in Surin who would go there on his behalf? Please send me a private message if you don't want to post it here.

 

Any tips, suggestions on what the guy could do would be great. Is there a place where he could write a report about this particular officer?

I recall a female Immigration officer in Phiboon who was very rude to foreigners after many reports from unsatisfied foreigners; she was sent to another place somewhere in the middle of nowhere. 

 

He has all the needed documents but was sent back and back and finally only received a few weeks to stay here? 

 

 

    Thank you very much for your time and consideration. It's urgent.  

 

 

 

            

  Three people found this funny?  Couldn't something similar happen to all of us? 

 

 

[teacherclaire]

Part II of S(uper) Immigration.

 

           The guy had to drive to Surin two more times and now we're at 1,400 km. 100 km one way x 7. 

 

Two "officers" were at the house just recently, he had to pay 1,900 baht for the few days until the end of this months, which must be an under consideration one. Is that normal to pay for it? If yes, no probs.

 

   Then a phone call that something with his wife's housebook and his own wasn't clear and he had to drive to the Immi again, of course a lot of fun.

 

 The neighbours were asked for a while if he really lives there so long? he's doing the same visa now for more than 20 years, always a non- o.

 

   Enough is enough. 

 

       

 

           

[Peter Denis]

59 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Part II of S(uper) Immigration.

 

           The guy had to drive to Surin two more times and now we're at 1,400 km. 100 km one way x 7. 

 

Two "officers" were at the house just recently, he had to pay 1,900 baht for the few days until the end of this months, which must be an under consideration one. Is that normal to pay for it? If yes, no probs.

 

   Then a phone call that something with his wife's housebook and his own wasn't clear and he had to drive to the Immi again, of course a lot of fun.

 

 The neighbours were asked for a while if he really lives there so long? he's doing the same visa now for more than 20 years, always a non- o.

 

Enough is enough. 

 

The house-visit is at the discretion of the Surin Imm Office where he applied, but if it is done it is part of the under consideration process to check whether he is really living with his Thai wife at the premisses. 

As that is the case - already since 20 years! - that should not be a problem, and so it looks that hopefully this will mean the end of the ordeal that he has gone through, and that he will receive the 1-year extension of stay stamp on his very last visit to that #$%^& Imm officer that played this game on him.

Wish him strength!

[teacherclaire]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

The house-visit is at the discretion of the Surin Imm Office where he applied, but if it is done it is part of the under consideration process to check whether he is really living with his Thai wife at the premisses. 

As that is the case - already since 20 years! - that should not be a problem, and so it looks that hopefully this will mean the end of the ordeal that he has gone through, and that he will receive the 1-year extension of stay stamp on his very last visit to that #$%^& Imm officer that played this game on him.

Wish him strength!

Thank you very much. No, unfortunately, it's not the end. They also told him to "give them a ring a few days before the extension ends to find out "if everything is "in order"

 

He had to get new bank statements and embassy letter, then another copy wasn't the way they wanted it ( but they'd made it@!!!) 

 

i think that there'll be a big breaking news article if they don't give him what i believe is his right.

 

His wife's a gambler and a d- addict, who made around 20 million baht disappear so far. That he had a stroke and riding his bike is more complicated can only be seen an additional problem.

 

  Humans are not made to get so much sh_t at once. I'll page you the details and hope that you have an idea. Thanks a lot for now. 

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

And if I mention this sort of thing in immigration posts where I live people on here just laugh and think it's funny that immigration has you like a hamster on a wheel in a cage, life ain't funny when immigration makes life hard for you.

[Caldera]

As things are progressing with immigration, at an increasing number of immigration offices using an agent seems to become the only way to keep one's sanity intact. That's probably what they wanted foreigners to do all along.

 

[KhaoYai]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:05 AM, teacherclaire said:

I'd write a report with all the proof to the main Immigration Bangkok and then see how the guy in question reacts/

That would be what we would do in the west but it will make no difference in Thailand.  The friend I spoke of earlier knew the law but called Bangkok Immigration to ask if he was correct.  This was a case where the I.O. was stating the his income must come from abroad.  The guy runs a business with his Thai wife, has a work permit, pays tax etc. etc. - how could his income come from abroad?  Bangkok confirmed that he was correct, his income could come from within Thailand but they point blank refused to call the I.O. in Korat and advise her that she was wrong.

 

The following year, his lawyer submitted the application - showing income from the guy's Thai business and the extension was granted. 

 

It shouldn't be that way but it is. Remember, Thailand does not have a true democracy, people have minimal rights and it seems there seems to be very little in the way of accountability when it comes to government departments - they all make up their own rules as they see fit.

 

We think its just us that get this type of hassle but Thais have problems with officialdom too.  I've noticed a few changes for the better over the years but not many - corruption is not just endemic throughout Asia, its a way of life and it goes to the very top.  So, if you want to complain - who to? Its very likley that the person you think you should address is at the top of the pyramid.

 

Its not our country so therefore its not for us to try do anything about it but of course, we have to deal with it.  From what I've learned in Thailand, there are three ways in which a foreigner can deal with situations where it seems corruption is preventing them from doing something that is totally legitimate.

 

1. Pay up and shut up.

2. Use an agent.

3. Use a lawyer.

 

To date, except for one occasion where my wife paid an official without me knowing, I've managed to get what I've needed to be done avoiding No.1.  On minor things like fake speeding offences etc. I've simply stood my ground but on more important matters I've used a lawyer - so far sucessfully.  I hate No.1 and I think No.2 is much the same as an agent will almost certainly be 'oiling the wheels'.

 

When I said my wife paid an official without me knowing, I totally understand why she did so.  We were right up against it, we had an international flight and hotels booked within hours.  Refusing to pay would have resulted in all of that falling apart with subsequent consequences. Although I hate corruption, I may have made the same decision as my wife if I'd known.  There are cases where you have little choice.

[Mike Rodik]

On 2/3/2021 at 7:13 PM, KhaoYai said:

Of course he had to pay but in my book, paying a lawyer is far better than paying a corrupt official.

 

When I had troubles, I called my lawyer, they talked down to the lawyer as they know everyting, result... more to pay the lawyer, result ZERO

[Solinvictus]

15 minutes ago, Mike Rodik said:

 

When I had troubles, I called my lawyer, they talked down to the lawyer as they know everyting, result... more to pay the lawyer, result ZERO

Paying a lawyer for minor services such as these in Thailand is a waste of time IMO.

 

[rwill]

Do they have the money to do a normal retirement extension instead of a marriage one?  

[Russell17au]

It sounds like your friend has a Non-Imm "O" with an extension based on his marriage and if this is correct then his "under consideration" stamp would only be until February when he would return to immigration for his 1 year extension stamp which is the normal at every immigration office, so if that is the case then it is no different to anywhere else and as for the photo's it is at the discretion of the IO on what might be acceptable at division headquarters because it is not the local IO who makes the decision, that is done by the regional headquarters and if the local IO sends something that is not acceptable by divisional headquarters then your friends application could be rejected so in cases like this do not always point the finger at the local IO because it could be the so and so at divisional headquarters that makes the decision.