Vaccine passports: path back to normality or problem in the making?

[UncleMhee]

Just now, placnx said:

To be clear, I was asking whether the data in the chip under someone's skin could be updated. Please clarify.

.........OTA.

Can the software data in a phone or computer operating system be updated without a psychical connection? i.e. OTA (over the air). Why wouldn't it be possible? Essentially it would just be reprogramming the chip/adding or removing data, wouldn't it? 

It's 2021.....nowadays they can tune your car from an office in Motor City America while your having car troubles on the Nullarbor Plain, Australia; or simply just shut it down if requested to by the authorities. 

Is this clarification enough? I sure the heck don't understand how it happens; but these things are the reality of today.

[BEVUP]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:08 PM, placeholder said:

NO. It's not sure whether they do or not. But, preliminary indications are that at least the Astra Zeneca vaccine may strongly lessen the rate of transmission

AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine may cut spread of virus

This is the first time that a coronavirus vaccine has shown it may reduce the spread of the virus.

https://www.livescience.com/astrazeneca-oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-cuts-transmission.html

In fact, it would be pretty surprising if it turns out that any one of them doesn't slow transmission. It's just not proven yet.

Agree

There still is no 100% guarantee

Auss still makes you Quarantine after Vaccine

This CV19 could be like Hep C  

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, placnx said:

The speed of mutation and emergence of "improved" variants is frightening. 

 

We are all destined to pass in this life, fact !

 

I remember what my father said to me once, i.e. he saw that I was stressed over something and said son; I have been where your coming from, think about it for a minute, you are allowing all of those thought in your mind to run around and stress you, while you have absolutely no control over them, so accept that, you have no control.

 

When you realise that you have no control, you can then take control of what you could not control and only then can you enjoy your life, it's simple, fear and panic only causes you to stress, and it is part of our society and will be around for as long as you allow it to control you.

 

Do I still stress, only when I get on TVF ????

 

 

 

[billd766]

On 2/4/2021 at 5:36 PM, ukrules said:

If this happens (which I doubt) then it won't happen for years, will be some half arsed private enterprise and largely not  backed by the governments of the world.

 

By the time everyone agreed on some international standard which covers all sorts of different vaccines COVID will be a non issue.

 

We're talking about the entire EU, the US and many other countries all agreeing on some common system - they might as well just give up on the idea now.

 

Many years ago when I first started offshore work the company I worked for found out what vaccinations were required for which areas and sent me to doctors and hospitals with a yellow immunisation book and my data was stamped in that in case I either caught something or a country's IO wanted to check.

 

It as valid  and accepted for most countries word wide.

 

Similar to this one.

 

23 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

 Interesting, but not, I believe, a new idea. I still possess  my UK "British Airways Health Passport" first issued to me in 1997 to record my vaccinations against rabies, hepatitis A, typhoid, polio and tetanus.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

If for example a card is being used by someone other than the person associated with its QR code, it will show as soon as the QR code is scanned.

 

And bio-metric documents (passports and the like) can't be forged or tampered with. Sure.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

Many years ago when I first started offshore work the company I worked for found out what vaccinations were required for which areas and sent me to doctors and hospitals with a yellow immunisation book and my data was stamped in that in case I either caught something or a country's IO wanted to check.

 

It as valid  and accepted for most countries word wide.

 

Similar to this one.

 

Yes, that's a pretty simple system and I'm sure it worked well for the tiny numbers of people who needed it.

 

Now scale it up to everyone who travels anywhere in the world at all times.

 

Add in a few hundred million people who won't take any kind of vaccination because they're 'antivaxers' and then there's the people who have allergies to vaccines (millions more).

 

How do you address vaccines which have efficiency levels of say 55% compared to the vaccines that have an efficiency level of 95%?

 

Does everyone get treated the same? Highly unlikely.

 

The countries will pick and choose who they allow in and it will be based on which vaccine they've had, that's where it starts to get complicated, very complicated.

 

In theory it's a good idea but in practice there's no way it will work properly.

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And bio-metric documents (passports and the like) can't be forged or tampered with. Sure.

But in the case of Covid-19 and similarly or less contagious viral diseases, it really doesn't matter so long as populations have been vaccinated widely enough for herd immunity to have been attained.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yes, that's a pretty simple system and I'm sure it worked well for the tiny numbers of people who needed it.

 

Now scale it up to everyone who travels anywhere in the world at all times.

 

Add in a few hundred million people who won't take any kind of vaccination because they're 'antivaxers' and then there's the people who have allergies to vaccines (millions more).

 

How do you address vaccines which have efficiency levels of say 55% compared to the vaccines that have an efficiency level of 95%?

 

Does everyone get treated the same? Highly unlikely.

 

The countries will pick and choose who they allow in and it will be based on which vaccine they've had, that's where it starts to get complicated, very complicated.

 

In theory it's a good idea but in practice there's no way it will work properly.

 

But nobody will know until it is tried.

 

If the antivaxers refuse the vaccine then they will not be allowed outside of their own country. Of course if they are from the EU they should be allowed free travel in all the EU countries.

 

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

But in the case of Covid-19 and similarly or less contagious viral diseases, it really doesn't matter so long as populations have been vaccinated widely enough for herd immunity to have been attained.

Scientists may believe that, travelers may believe that, but then you meet the IO of a country who is likely to say, no vaccine certificate, no entry.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

But in the case of Covid-19 and similarly or less contagious viral diseases, it really doesn't matter so long as populations have been vaccinated widely enough for herd immunity to have been attained.

 

I thought we were discussing the issuing of vaccine-passports, as in the danger is still out there. If there's herd immunity then there's not much need of such measures.

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I thought we were discussing the issuing of vaccine-passports, as in the danger is still out there. If there's herd immunity then there's not much need of such measures.

Do you think that this is the kind of development that could happen in the next few months. Given how these things work, it's most likely a matter of years before it's realized.

[BangkokReady]

Have a DL style card in the short term, then as passports are replaced over time, make it a requirement to have a covid vaccination page (or just general "vaccination page", but we know what it will be for) after the biodata page linked to a database.

 

No one gets in without vaccine, but still need quarantine until numbers in the target country are high enough that the chance of people getting very sick or dying is minimal.

 

Once each country gets to the point where enough people are vaccinated, and getting a yearly(ish) booster, they can do away with the quarantine.

 

Sadly, covid looks to be here to stay.  Who knows, maybe they will eradicate it if the vaccine makes people less likely to catch it and to spread it.  At this point, I think most people would settle for just being able to travel as normal.

[ukrules]

18 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

CDC in the US has a card that is issued by the Hospital issuing the vaccinations, hand written documentation. Here is what my mothers looks like.

 

Without cryptographic signatures linked back to some central issuing authority in each country these could be faked by the millions in days.

 

[Credo]

44 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Without cryptographic signatures linked back to some central issuing authority in each country these could be faked by the millions in days.

 

Most documents can be faked rather easily.   The card you show is for a totally different purpose.  It's not for international travel.   

 

I suspect that something a little more sophisticated will be required for actual proof of vaccination for any legal purpose.   

 

 

[olfu]

My impression is all governments want to reduce international travel as we, citizens, have too much  fun.

[scorecard]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:36 PM, ukrules said:

If this happens (which I doubt) then it won't happen for years, will be some half arsed private enterprise and largely not  backed by the governments of the world.

 

By the time everyone agreed on some international standard which covers all sorts of different vaccines COVID will be a non issue.

 

We're talking about the entire EU, the US and many other countries all agreeing on some common system - they might as well just give up on the idea now.

 

 

Australia starts innoculations late Feb.

 

It's just announced the 'vaccine certificate':

 

- Immediately after getting each of the 2 jabs, the recipient will immediately receive an e.mail certifying they have been jabbed (there was emphasis this will be very fast).

 

- The e.mail will have the appearance of a certificate with full name and a personal number.

 

- It can be printed and of course held on a smart phone/ in a cloud storage etc.

 

- Certain authorities (not yet explained in full) can use name and cert. number to access full details of the vaccine, batch no/manufacture date etc.

 

- Not sure yet whether after 2 jabs there will be one consolidated e.mail certificate or perhaps it will always be 2 certificates. Not the end of the world.

 

- Downside: Some folks don't have an e.mail account. This was mentioned in one media report, the response was that there is an alternative system, but no details.  

 

- So far so good.

[FarFlungFalang]

On 2/4/2021 at 5:36 PM, ukrules said:

If this happens (which I doubt) then it won't happen for years, will be some half arsed private enterprise and largely not  backed by the governments of the world.

 

By the time everyone agreed on some international standard which covers all sorts of different vaccines COVID will be a non issue.

 

We're talking about the entire EU, the US and many other countries all agreeing on some common system - they might as well just give up on the idea now.

 

Well it didn't take Australia years,they have just announced their version today. 

[FarFlungFalang]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

Do you think that this is the kind of development that could happen in the next few months. Given how these things work, it's most likely a matter of years before it's realized.

Australia has already announced they have implemented their version today.So not years or months but now.

[FarFlungFalang]

Now that the Australian federal government has implemented their digital vaccine passport they have not ruled out allowing state governments requiring people to be vaccinated to enter a supermarket, hospitals and public transport or any place they to choose.This could easily become a global requirement to force people to be vaccinated for anything in the future or to control any sought of public behaviour like the system now in place in China.So get ready people this is the next step now that you have given permission for governments to strip away any freedoms you think you might have had.It's a slippery slope we are on and it's too late to stop now.  

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Australia starts innoculations late Feb.

 

It's just announced the 'vaccine certificate':

 

- Immediately after getting each of the 2 jabs, the recipient will immediately receive an e.mail certifying they have been jabbed (there was emphasis this will be very fast).

 

- The e.mail will have the appearance of a certificate with full name and a personal number.

 

- It can be printed and of course held on a smart phone/ in a cloud storage etc.

 

- Certain authorities (not yet explained in full) can use name and cert. number to access full details of the vaccine, batch no/manufacture date etc.

 

- Not sure yet whether after 2 jabs there will be one consolidated e.mail certificate or perhaps it will always be 2 certificates. Not the end of the world.

 

- Downside: Some folks don't have an e.mail account. This was mentioned in one media report, the response was that there is an alternative system, but no details.  

 

- So far so good.

Just on ABC news, jabs will also automatically go on personal MEDICARE on-line record and can be printed etc. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Australia has already announced they have implemented their version today.So not years or months but now.

But will it be internationally implemented? Have any other nations agreed to their standards?

[ChakaKhan]

23 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

CDC in the US has a card that is issued by the Hospital issuing the vaccinations, hand written documentation. Here is what my mothers looks like.

Takes screenshot--copies--laminates--modifies--buys tixs to LOS  ????

[ChakaKhan]

2 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Well it didn't take Australia years,they have just announced their version today. 

Do they get the needle "down under" or in the arm? ????

[scorecard]

42 minutes ago, ChakaKhan said:

Do they get the needle "down under" or in the arm? ????

Yours is planned for your ass with 5 attempts before the nurse finds the right spot. 

[ChakaKhan]

Just now, scorecard said:

Yours is planned for your ass with 5 attempts before the nurse finds the right spot. 

I better stock up on my Vegemite!  tnx for the tip friend! ???? ...any spot is the right spot in these trying times..

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

But will it be internationally implemented? Have any other nations agreed to their standards?

Who knows, but adding it to MEDICARE on-line records is both logical and practical.

 

Medicare started maybe 4 decades ago in Australia, it's a pretty good system and it's popular, free, covers all conditions (but not cosmetic stuff) and all Australian citizens are fully entitled and totally easy to get started, most parents enrol their kids just after birth. Permanent Residents also fully entitled also many other visa holders . There's currently discussion about extending full benefits to international students and some categories of folks on working visas (e.g. fruit/agricultural workers). 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Just on ABC news, jabs will also automatically go on personal MEDICARE on-line record and can be printed etc. 

That is fine, but what about expats worldwide who hold passports from one country and are living full time in another such as Thailand. We wouldn't be on the home country medical data base nor most probably on the host country medical data base.

 

I am asking for myself as I don't have many friends.   ????

[FarFlungFalang]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

But will it be internationally implemented? Have any other nations agreed to their standards?

I think I each country is willing to accept the passports we have they will accept each counties vaccine certificates in the best interest of humanity's health after all our governments will say it's for your own protection! 

[FarFlungFalang]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That is fine, but what about expats worldwide who hold passports from one country and are living full time in another such as Thailand. We wouldn't be on the home country medical data base nor most probably on the host country medical data base.

 

I am asking for myself as I don't have many friends.   ????

Do you have a yellow book?Do you go to your local hospital? I went recently for a rabies jab after being bitten by a cat and they also threw in a Diphtheria booster and now I'm on the data system so I think you will also be able to do the same for the vaccine though you might have to prove you have some friends so you might need to work on that.

[Nout]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:50 AM, Tug said:

Wish I had the magic idea that could open up travel perhaps this idea will help btw I got my first jab of the moderna today no reaction yet not even a sore arm and the nurse was cute!

Where?

[scorecard]

49 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That is fine, but what about expats worldwide who hold passports from one country and are living full time in another such as Thailand. We wouldn't be on the home country medical data base nor most probably on the host country medical data base.

 

I am asking for myself as I don't have many friends.   ????

Sure, situations like yours (and mine) will need to be resolved with some type of acceptable easy & quick to verify Vaccine Certificate which is automatically accepted in Thailand and globally (I say mine because I'm currently in Australia and I'll get the first Pfizer jab within about 3 weeks. Later I will return to live permanently with my son and family in Chiang Mai.) I'm sure the OZ folks will sort it out.