After 2 years on "O-A" (retirement) - what's next?

[law ling]

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction with this:

Timeline:

1. I entered on (my first) "non-imm O-A" (retirement) visa in mid 2019.

2. Mid 2020 (using an agent) I got an (in-country) "extension of stay" to mid 2021. (As far as I could tell: obtaining medical insurance - and paying the agent's fee - is all I had to do).

Question:

What are my (easiest, and most likely successful) options to get a further (in-country) yearly extension (before the current extension expires mid this year)?

(I'd rather not have to wait till the last moment, and then pay an agent "any amount they ask for" to bring about "a miraculous result".)

Reasons for urgency:

A. if I MUST (although I'd rather not have to) bring in B800K (and have it here for at least 2 months), then I need to get organised now, and

B. if my situation is hopeless: quickly getting out of the country is equally problematic: flights are rare, and pre-approved quarantine placements back home even rarer.

If relevant:

i. Australian, 66, using Jomtien.

ii. No spouse or child here - so no additional options there.

iii. Don't want an Elite, or commit to an Education visa.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[tonray]

800 K in the bank for 2 months. Just like the rest of us have to do...unless you want to continue to pay an agent

Edited February 9, 2021 by tonray

[law ling]

25 minutes ago, tonray said:

800 K in the bank for 2 months. Just like the rest of us have to do...unless you want to continue to pay an agent

Thanks.

 

Plus a new medical insurance?

Edited February 9, 2021 by law ling

[tonray]

15 minutes ago, law ling said:

Thanks.

 

Plus a new medical insurance?

Yes...you must have 400/40 medical policy to cover the duration of your extension

[law ling]

Thanks.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, law ling said:

A. if I MUST (although I'd rather not have to) bring in B800K (and have it here for at least 2 months), then I need to get organised now, and

800K in a Thai bank and the medical Insurance is your only option now to extend without an agent.

LMG offer a cheap but rather useless throw away policy that meets the 400/40K requirements,

@Peter Denis can send you further details on that.

 

Other options had you enquired earlier would have been 12 x monthly overseas transfers of 65K, or a combination of 12 monthly transfers, plus a lesser amount tied up in a Thai bank, totalling 800K min.

 

You might have to suck it up this year, but when borders open you could apply for the 90 day single entry Non O Visa from the Thai Consulate in Savannakhet, or exit and re-enter Visa exempt and change it to a Non O at Immigration.

Entering or obtaining a Non O (as opposed to a Non O-A) will allow you to apply for annual extensions without the need for any Thai Medical Insurance policy.

[UncleMhee]

1 hour ago, law ling said:

What are my (easiest, and most likely successful) options to get a further (in-country) yearly extension (before the current extension expires mid this year)?

(I'd rather not have to wait till the last moment, and then pay an agent "any amount they ask for" to bring about "a miraculous result".)

Reasons for urgency:

A. if I MUST (although I'd rather not have to) bring in B800K (and have it here for at least 2 months), then I need to get organised now, and

You seem somewhat conflicted..... Just my opinion but, considering you'd rather not bring the money in, which would also mean paying insurance if you did, in order to get your extension; I'm also confused by your "any amount they ask for comment" regarding agents. 

There are plenty of reliable agents that can cover your lack of money and insurance for between 20-25,000 baht. It'd take forty years doing it that way to spend 800,000. Swings & Roundabouts TIT

[law ling]

Tanoshi: thanks

Uncle: point taken.

[tonray]

1 hour ago, UncleMhee said:

You seem somewhat conflicted..... Just my opinion but, considering you'd rather not bring the money in, which would also mean paying insurance if you did, in order to get your extension; I'm also confused by your "any amount they ask for comment" regarding agents. 

There are plenty of reliable agents that can cover your lack of money and insurance for between 20-25,000 baht. It'd take forty years doing it that way to spend 800,000. Swings & Roundabouts TIT

But the key is you're not spending 800,000 baht...that is your money to keep

[Peter Denis]

HI, I am sorry to have to throw some 'cold water' on your plans.

But better that you are aware, than when applying mid 2021 and finding out that you do not meet the requirements and get your 1-year extension for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa denied.

You wrote that you are already on a 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa, and that you got that extension by making use of an Agent.

But having done so that means that you will NOT be able to meet the requirements for your mid 2021 extension.  Because the +800k seasoned for two months on your personal Thai bank-account is ONLY applicable when applying first time for your 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement using the Funds-in-Bank method.

When you are already on a 1-year extension of stay (as you wrote) the process to apply for a further extension goes in two steps:

1 - First the Immigration Officer handling your application will check whether you did meet the conditions you accepted when applying for your 2020 1-year extension.  And those conditions stipulate that you need to keep +800K on your personal Thai bank-account during the first 3 months after your 1-year permission to stay was provided, then you are allowed to lower that amount as long as it does not slip below the +400K tresshold, and finally you have top up again to +800K for two months prior to the moment of application for your new 1-year extension.

2 - The second step is that the Imm Officer - if you 'honoured' the conditions for your previous 1-year extension of stay - will check whether you meet the requirements for your new 1-year extension of stay (e.g. the mandatory Thai IO-approved health-insurance policy, and having all other required documents in order).

>>> But as you used an Agent who took care of the +800K at the moment of application for your 2020 1-year extension of stay and you wrote that you only subscribed to the mandatory Thai IO-approved insurance, you will not be able to meet condition #1.

The 'problem' when using a Fixer Agent to circumvent the +800K Funds-in-Bank requirement when applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, is that you are virtually 'hooked' unless you started from day-1 of that 1-year permission to stay with semi-permanently parking the required 800K/400K on your personal Thai bank-account.  So that after 12 months you can provide evidence that you met the conditions for that 1-year extension of stay that was provided.

>>> So you now have 2 options:

a) Once again engaging a Fixer Agent which will circumvent the +800K/+400K requirement during the past 12 months which you are not able to meet anymore. 

Note: Let me know if you need the co-ordinates of a reliable Fixer Agent in case you were not fully satisfied with the service that the Agent you used for your 2020 1-year extension provided, so that I can PM this info to you.

b) Hope that by mid 2021 when your current permission to stay is due to expire, that by then the current border restrictions have eased.  That would allow you to do a 'quick border-run' and after returning VisaExempt, you would then be able to 'apply from scratch', i.e. applying for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at the local IO of the province where you intend to stay long-term, and subsequently in the last month of those 90-days then apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on that new Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  The advantage of doing so is that you would also have dumped the requirement for the Thai IO-approved health-insurance (which is ONLY applicable when applying for the 1-year extension for reason of retirement based on an original Non Imm O-A Visa).

 

>> I have PM-ed you a comprehensive Guideline document on how to stay long-term in Thailand when over +50 years.  All of the above (and much more) is outlined in detail in that document, including how to apply for the cheap 'throw-away' LMG Plan-1 insurance when extending your current permission to stay for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Peter Denis

[Tanoshi]

49 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The 'problem' when using a Fixer Agent to circumvent the +800K Funds-in-Bank requirement when applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, is that you are virtually 'hooked' unless you started from day-1 of that 1-year permission to stay with semi-permanently parking the required 800K/400K on your personal Thai bank-account. 

Absolutely spot on Peter, not to mention other issues, such as the extension is issued by an Immigration office which is not in the same Province as your residence. Therefore what is your registered residential address with Immigration now!

90 day reports.

Certificates of residence.

Of course the fixer can arrange to overcome these issues - for a fee, but you become stuck in a Venus fly trap, solely dependant on an agent to do your bidding.

 

When borders eventually re-open the Consulate in Savannakhet will be overwhelmed with applications for Non Imm O ME Visas once again. Wait for the topics on this subject.

[DrJack54]

OP, as your located Jomtien, my suggestion would be to consult with an agent nearby to outline your options.

Plenty good ones in Pattaya. Key Visa being one company.

[law ling]

Thanks again to everyone who put effort into the detailed replies.

Much appreciated.

 

(Jomtien is my residence and the local office for 90-day reports, etc.)

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

When borders eventually re-open the Consulate in Savannakhet will be overwhelmed with applications for Non Imm O ME Visas once again. Wait for the topics on this subject.

I can wait a year.. After all a visa trip with all its attendant aggravation would cost me more than the 7700 baht cost of the insurance. Perhaps even make a trip back to USA anyway for a new OA..which will give me another 2 years without too much hassle

[DrJack54]

25 minutes ago, tonray said:

I can wait a year.. After all a visa trip with all its attendant aggravation would cost me more than the 7700 baht cost of the insurance. Perhaps even make a trip back to USA anyway for a new OA..which will give me another 2 years without too much hassle

Extensions based on retirement are cheap.

For those not able or wanting to put 800k in the bank the option of agent for the funds is also available.

[rickudon]

Probably included in what Peter sent you, but you also have the option of monthly income of 65,000 baht (has to be every month) transferred into Thailand. This is then checked every time you renew your extension to make sure you complied with it. However, personally i think the money in the bank method is a little less problematic than monthly income - only need one month's transfer to go wrong and then you have an issue.

[Bradmeister]

Op, 

 

800k and start your retirement checks or pension to deposit directly into a Thai Bank.

 

Show 65k per month, get your house book and Resident card.

 

Happy Hunting

[Peter Denis]

15 minutes ago, Bradmeister said:

Op, 

 

800k and start your retirement checks or pension to deposit directly into a Thai Bank.

 

Show 65k per month, get your house book and Resident card.

 

Happy Hunting

When OP is using the +800K Funds-in-Bank method, there is no reason or necessity for him to have his pension directly transferred by his pension provider to his Thai Bank-Account.

In that case it would be far more advantageous for him, to have his pension transferred to a Bank-Account in his home-country, as that will allow him to decide for himself when he wants/needs to transfer money to his Thai bank-account.

 

[natway09]

Why do people who want to live in Thailand & basically make it their home still

insist on talking about the 800,000 Bht like they had to give it to the Thai Government?

It is a surety only, staying in your bank A/C in your name that only you have access to

If this represents too much of a financial burden the whole idea of staying here should be

reexamined, & that includes  Covid refugees now who are just using it as an excuse to stay

[JimGant]

Question for Peter: A fixer agent can apparently make the 800k in the bank requirement disappear -- but from the OP's situation, it sounds like a fixer agent CAN'T make the health insurance requirement disappear...? Is that your take?

[hansnl]

23 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

HI, I am sorry to have to throw some 'cold water' on your plans.

But better that you are aware, than when applying mid 2021 and finding out that you do not meet the requirements and get your 1-year extension for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa denied.

You wrote that you are already on a 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa, and that you got that extension by making use of an Agent.

But having done so that means that you will NOT be able to meet the requirements for your mid 2021 extension.  Because the +800k seasoned for two months on your personal Thai bank-account is ONLY applicable when applying first time for your 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement using the Funds-in-Bank method.

When you are already on a 1-year extension of stay (as you wrote) the process to apply for a further extension goes in two steps:

1 - First the Immigration Officer handling your application will check whether you did meet the conditions you accepted when applying for your 2020 1-year extension.  And those conditions stipulate that you need to keep +800K on your personal Thai bank-account during the first 3 months after your 1-year permission to stay was provided, then you are allowed to lower that amount as long as it does not slip below the +400K tresshold, and finally you have top up again to +800K for two months prior to the moment of application for your new 1-year extension.

2 - The second step is that the Imm Officer - if you 'honoured' the conditions for your previous 1-year extension of stay - will check whether you meet the requirements for your new 1-year extension of stay (e.g. the mandatory Thai IO-approved health-insurance policy, and having all other required documents in order).

>>> But as you used an Agent who took care of the +800K at the moment of application for your 2020 1-year extension of stay and you wrote that you only subscribed to the mandatory Thai IO-approved insurance, you will not be able to meet condition #1.

The 'problem' when using a Fixer Agent to circumvent the +800K Funds-in-Bank requirement when applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, is that you are virtually 'hooked' unless you started from day-1 of that 1-year permission to stay with semi-permanently parking the required 800K/400K on your personal Thai bank-account.  So that after 12 months you can provide evidence that you met the conditions for that 1-year extension of stay that was provided.

>>> So you now have 2 options:

a) Once again engaging a Fixer Agent which will circumvent the +800K/+400K requirement during the past 12 months which you are not able to meet anymore. 

Note: Let me know if you need the co-ordinates of a reliable Fixer Agent in case you were not fully satisfied with the service that the Agent you used for your 2020 1-year extension provided, so that I can PM this info to you.

b) Hope that by mid 2021 when your current permission to stay is due to expire, that by then the current border restrictions have eased.  That would allow you to do a 'quick border-run' and after returning VisaExempt, you would then be able to 'apply from scratch', i.e. applying for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at the local IO of the province where you intend to stay long-term, and subsequently in the last month of those 90-days then apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on that new Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  The advantage of doing so is that you would also have dumped the requirement for the Thai IO-approved health-insurance (which is ONLY applicable when applying for the 1-year extension for reason of retirement based on an original Non Imm O-A Visa).

 

>> I have PM-ed you a comprehensive Guideline document on how to stay long-term in Thailand when over +50 years.  All of the above (and much more) is outlined in detail in that document, including how to apply for the cheap 'throw-away' LMG Plan-1 insurance when extending your current permission to stay for reason of retirement based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa.

 

Tell us more about that LMG plan?

 

[Peter Denis]

22 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Question for Peter: A fixer agent can apparently make the 800k in the bank requirement disappear -- but from the OP's situation, it sounds like a fixer agent CAN'T make the health insurance requirement disappear...? Is that your take?

No, a Fixer Agent or an Immigration Officer 'on the take' can also make the Non Imm O-A compliant retirement-extension health-insurance requirement disppear.

There have been reports on the Forum of Fixer Agents asking 14.000 THB for that service, and Imm Officers asking 20.000 THB for doing same.  Which is of course ridiculous, as the Non Imm O-A compliant LMG Plan-1 Insurance (with 200K deductible) only costs 6.000 THB to 11.400 THB annual premium in the age categories of 51 to 75 years of age, and then it would be a fully legit application without any under the table hanky-panky.

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Tell us more about that LMG plan?

I did PM you a Guideline document on how to apply for that LMG Plan-1 Non Imm O-A compliant health-insurance policy (with 200K deductible), with tips and caveats.

[law ling]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, Peter Denis said:

>> I have PM-ed you a comprehensive Guideline document on how to stay long-term in Thailand when over +50 years.  All

 

Thanks Peter - I'm digesting that info.

 

I don't mind paying for insurance - the premium can indeed be lower with the higher deductable (as you noted).

 

I don't even mind bringing in 800K - it just seems I'm too late - if I now understand correctly: Starting with an O-A, to get an extension for "a third year", you need the B800K in the bank at the begining of an O-A visa's ("second year") extension - not (as I'd presumed) in the last 2-3 months of the extension. (I'd thought that what the agent got me was no more than what I would have gotten had I just left and re-entered - i.e. the "second year" of an O-A visa.) Live and learn.

 

(I add that a visa run before my July final date, which could've reset everything, seems most unlikely.)

 

Well, I'll ask some agents for a suggestion - it's just that I fear that their fees will rise when they hear the anxiety in my voice.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

There have been reports on the Forum of Fixer Agents asking 14.000 THB for that service, and Imm Officers asking 20.000 THB for doing same.  Which is of course ridiculous, as the Non Imm O-A compliant LMG Plan-1 Insurance (with 200K deductible) only costs 6.000 THB to 11.400 THB annual premium in the age categories of 51 to 75 years of age

Thanx, Peter. I'll be 76 when I next renew my LMG insurance -- and the current advertised premium rate, for someone who has never filed a claim, is 16,900. Could you please PM me the name of the Fixer Agent you have for Chiang Mai. Thanx.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Thanx, Peter. I'll be 76 when I next renew my LMG insurance -- and the current advertised premium rate, for someone who has never filed a claim, is 16,900. Could you please PM me the name of the Fixer Agent you have for Chiang Mai. Thanx.

Requested information send, and you're welcome.

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, law ling said:

I don't even mind bringing in 800K - it just seems I'm too late - if I now understand correctly: Starting with an O-A, to get an extension for "a third year", you need the B800K in the bank at the begining of an O-A visa's ("second year") extension - not (as I'd presumed) in the last 2-3 months of the extension.

That would be correct for your very first extension. (2020)

However to meet the requirements for your 2021 extension, you'd have to prove you kept 800K in the account for 3 months following your 2020 extension, then the balance remained at 400K for the next 7 months before topping up to 800K again for two months prior to the 2021 application.

 

Of course the agent could have advised you of the requirements for the following year, but that wouldn't be in his interest would it, rather 'see you next year'.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Tanoshi

[law ling]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Of course the agent could have advised you of the requirements for the following year, but that wouldn't be in his interest would it, rather 'see you next year'.

 

Noted ... and Well said!