UK had 'one or two' Brexit teething issues on fishing, minister says

[Loiner]

Naysayers and malcontents out in force again? “Everything is Boris’s fault.” and the “Brexiteers still don’t know about anything.” are their default for their own ongoing misery. 
 

Nevermind, they can wallow in their bitterness, with Grauniad links till the cows come home. Remainer rants and snipes on TVF mean nothing. We are out of the EU and all for the better. 

[bannork]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Naysayers and malcontents out in force again? “Everything is Boris’s fault.” and the “Brexiteers still don’t know about anything.” are their default for their own ongoing misery. 
 

Nevermind, they can wallow in their bitterness, with Grauniad links till the cows come home. Remainer rants and snipes on TVF mean nothing. We are out of the EU and all for the better. 

I've told you before -you can check out but you can never leave- how can we? G,eographically we're tied to Europe.

There is even a Minister for Brexit now -Frost .

Brexit will never end, be done because of the multitude of ties- economic, security, culture, research, etc that bind the UK to the EU.

And the EU is far bigger than the UK economically so you'd better get used to the UK giving in to the EU, as with Johnson's  Xmas dea.l

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

I've told you before -you can check out but you can never leave- how can we? G,eographically we're tied to Europe.

There is even a Minister for Brexit now -Frost .

Brexit will never end, be done because of the multitude of ties- economic, security, culture, research, etc that bind the UK to the EU.

And the EU is far bigger than the UK economically so you'd better get used to the UK giving in to the EU, as with Johnson's  Xmas dea.l

If that really were the case, I’m confident we would be subjected to smug silence from the Remainers.

In the even, we have the continuous wails about Boris from the deeply and mortally offended loosing Remainers. 

[OswaldBastable]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Are you yet another Brexiteer who believed that we would retain all the benefits of membership without the responsibilities?

Your comment certainly suggests that you are!

We have left the EU and now have to suffer the consequences; get over it!

I'm a staunch remainer, was just about to buy my retirement farm house near Limoges, when Brexit removed my right to live there, and probably any state pension increases if I 'd chosen to push it. My retirement plan is now in ruins.

Edited March 20, 2021 by OswaldBastable

[candide]

7 hours ago, OswaldBastable said:

I see the 'red tape' as the EU's way of punishing the UK for leaving.

 

6 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Serious question.....is this red tape unique to the UK?......or is it the same red tape every "third country", not in the customs union and single market, has to complete?

These are the rules deriving from the agreement signed, that is, rules applying to third countries. The only reason UK currently isn't applying the same rules to I ports from the the EU is that it is unable to deal with the increased amount of imports to be controlled. The same red tape will be applied to the EU next year, and for some of it, before that.

Mind you, there's more to it! UK is currently applying the same rules to other foreign countries, as most EU laws have be retained. There's no way a foreign country can export raw meat to the UK without providing health certificates. There is no way a foreign country can export live shellfish from polluted waters to the UK, without purifying them. Etc...

[david555]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

"It's interesting that you don't dispute my description of Johnson as a liar, "

Would it change your mind if I did, would you say I always over exaggerate Boris Johnsons fibs because he democratically took us out of the EU and I don't like it, I don't agree with it even though most of our country do. I will get back at the voters who voted to leave by calling the man childish names like liar. You should thank your bottom dollar that Labour are not ruining the country at the moment and thank the lord we have someone like Boris to lead us out of trials and tribulations we are suffering at this very time. 

Its about time some posters on here appreciated the difficulties the great man must be undergoing at the moment, instead of all this abuse you give him, why not say a little prayer for him tonight before you retire to the comfort of your own bed and be thankful you do not have his worries.

 

 

 why not say a little prayer for him tonight before you retire to the comfort of your own bed and be thankful you do not have his worries.

 

Why...?

oh !  or  are you so worried for him after AZ  jab .....blood clots fear maybe  ?   ????????????

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by david555

[RayC]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I suspect that as long as we remain locked into the FPTP system, where a minority of votes can give a thumping majority, we will never see a break from such polarised politics. Despite being out of power for a decade, I still think that Labour would not support any move away from the status quo either - the two big parties have much to lose if we had a fairer, more representative government. 

Now we see a situation that the winners are the more media savvy, where the message needs to be less about their own party's policies as about scaring the population about what is the only alternative available. 

I'm not so sure. I remember when the complaint levelled against FPTP was the exact opposite i.e. that it leads to  consensus politics as parties sought the middle ground. 

I find it a dilemma. Intuitively I favour PR, but it can put the balance of power in the hands of a minority party and  lead to too much compromise and weak government. 

I might not like the current administration, but the FPTP system does mean that they should be able to implement their manifesto commitments (although you might be forgiven for thinking otherwise after reading some TVF posts; whenever there is a problem, it is always somebody else's fault).

[bkkcanuck8]

8 hours ago, OswaldBastable said:

How much red tape did they put in front of our COVID vaccine? I bet it was nothing like 71 pages per delivery.

 

If you consolidate products from different sources - and it is food related - you need to track the source of ALL food back to their source in case the food is contaminated by stuff like e-coli etc.   If you want to trade manufactured goods, it would be easier but they still need an overall documentation of inputs since to qualify for special treatment it has to be greater than a certain percentage of the inputs being procured in the EU/UK.  (the later I think requires more documentation for the first shipments and less for later since it should be on file).   If the systems were in place it would be easier to handle the import/export documentation -- much easier... but now it is all a manual process for most... and that is a nightmare.  It would have been better if they had the agreement and had a period of transition where you continued under current regulations and provided the documentation (which it would not be rejected if insufficient or wrong) -- for a couple of years (which was an option turned down) while all the processes were worked out.  The UK basically asked for it to be more difficult than it would have been.

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Naysayers and malcontents out in force again? “Everything is Boris’s fault.” and the “Brexiteers still don’t know about anything.” are their default for their own ongoing misery. 
 

Nevermind, they can wallow in their bitterness, with Grauniad links till the cows come home. Remainer rants and snipes on TVF mean nothing. We are out of the EU and all for the better. 

You're right there. I just popped back to this thread to see if the remainers were still banging the same old drum, which they are. Sad really 

 

[RayC]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You're right there. I just popped back to this thread to see if the remainers were still banging the same old drum, which they are. Sad really 

 

The tune being banged out on the old drum is called 'Responsibility and Accountability'.

Unfortunately, Brexiters and the Boris fan club aren't able to play it.

[Surelynot]

3 hours ago, candide said:

 

These are the rules deriving from the agreement signed, that is, rules applying to third countries. The only reason UK currently isn't applying the same rules to I ports from the the EU is that it is unable to deal with the increased amount of imports to be controlled. The same red tape will be applied to the EU next year, and for some of it, before that.

Mind you, there's more to it! UK is currently applying the same rules to other foreign countries, as most EU laws have be retained. There's no way a foreign country can export raw meat to the UK without providing health certificates. There is no way a foreign country can export live shellfish from polluted waters to the UK, without purifying them. Etc...

So.....the upshot is......... the EU is not punishing the UK.......they are jus applying the same rules as they do to all "third countries" plus, possibly, additional rules Frosty the no man signed up to....correct?

[tebee]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

So.....the upshot is......... the EU is not punishing the UK.......they are jus applying the same rules as they do to all "third countries" plus, possibly, additional rules Frosty the no man signed up to....correct?

it's more the additional things that Frosty didn't sign up to, like mutual recognition of qualifications and standards - that cause  the extra paperwork over some other third countries.

if we'd agreed to common standards  you wouldn't need every shipment to be certified 

Simmerally someone who qualifies as a pilot, vet or doctor in the UK now  will not automatically  be recognized as qualified in the EU and will need to undergo a second certification there.

[Tofer]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Right so you only count the foreign aid from EU countries as what comes from the EU institutions? Each individual countries contributions are ignored?  

As individual countries, they are recorded as such and are listed individually on the chart, as is the EU Institution, NB. Institution in the singular, not the EU Institutions as you tried to misdirect.

Try reading the chart it's quite clear to most people.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Tofer

[Tofer]

On 3/19/2021 at 2:27 PM, candide said:

It's written in the contract! That's fact!

https://www.rai.it/dl/doc/2021/02/19/1613725900577_AZ_FIRMATO_REPORT.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjWvP_e6bvvAhWP3oUKHRkjBMIQFjADegQICxAC&usg=AOvVaw3oE7Od3uUe81yE75O8OPHj

No it is not.

It makes no reference to the advance payment for the "investment in development of additional manufacturing plants"

Edited March 21, 2021 by Tofer

[Tofer]

14 hours ago, david555 said:

Why...?

oh !  or  are you so worried for him after AZ  jab .....blood clots fear maybe  ?   ????????????

 

Don't tell me you really swallowed that stupid line from your EU masters.....

[david555]

23 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Don't tell me you really swallowed that stupid line from your EU masters.....

you did not see the 3 smiley's  ?? , as  brexiteers do not see a joke easily  ,   "a prayer for Boris " ???? ... hence the blood clot fear  assumed...

O.K. now ? ????

Edited March 21, 2021 by david555

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

As individual countries, they are recorded as such and are listed individually on the chart, as is the EU Institution, NB. Institution in the singular, not the EU Institutions as you tried to misdirect.

Try reading the chart it's quite clear to most people.

OK here is what we know.

The European Union remains world’s leading donor of Official Development Assistance with €75.2 billion in 2019 | International Partnerships (europa.eu)

But of course by using creative accountancy and different methodology you are trying to prove what? The UK gives more foreign aid than the EU? 

[Surelynot]

On 3/20/2021 at 4:31 AM, Surelynot said:

1) Brexit and the shift to the far right, to neutralise UKIP

2) Restructuring the BBC to give them editorial control, amongst other things

3) Attacks on the Judiciary

4) Attacks on the Civil Service

5) Attacks on the Constitution

6) Culture wars

7) Attacks on teachers and education

???? US-style voter suppressions

9) Clamp-down on legitimate protests

You can see from this list why some people think Johnson is the best peacetime PM the UK has ever has.

Someone asked me if I could just tag these onto the list of Johnson's amazing achievements......

As London Mayor:

* Promised to eradicate rough sleeping by 2012. Rough sleeping rose by 130% in London during his time in office.

* Promised there would "always be a manned ticket office at every underground station." Went on to close all of the ticket offices.

* Promised to "bear down on fares" adding that "under my approach fares will be lower in the long term". Increased fares every year in office and by 4.2% in his first year

* Promised not to raise London's congestion charge. Congestion charge raised in both terms.

* Promised not to close any fire stations. He closed 10.

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

No it is not.

It makes no reference to the advance payment for the "investment in development of additional manufacturing plants"

To start with, It's a fake quote and that's against forum rules

 

What I wrote initially was that "The EU made a prepayment of 336 million euro in August 2020, which has been invested by AZ in its production facilities," ....  which makes sense at that time, as it was during the period of time they were developing  their manufacturing capabilities

 

Then you claimed that AZ could use the money as it wanted. I replied that an advance payment's purpose was to finance expenses related to the order made. And that's what is in the contract: it describes what the funding is intended for, in order to be able to fullfill the order. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by candide

[Loiner]

On 3/20/2021 at 4:31 AM, Surelynot said:

1) Brexit and the shift to the far right, to neutralise UKIP

2) Restructuring the BBC to give them editorial control, amongst other things

3) Attacks on the Judiciary

4) Attacks on the Civil Service

5) Attacks on the Constitution

6) Culture wars

7) Attacks on teachers and education

???? US-style voter suppressions

9) Clamp-down on legitimate protests

You can see from this list why some people think Johnson is the best peacetime PM the UK has ever has.

You can see why they are all necessary, with the exception of UKIP. The listed institutions are those which must be sorted out, root and branch. They have become too left leaning, with too many of their management opposed to government policy, intent on implementing their own political preferences. Some would even say many of them are directly responsible for the undermining of the UK. 
 

As one of the few doing anything about it, no wonder Boris is the best peacetime PM we have ever had. 

[david555]

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-eu-brussels-b1818471.html

 

 

The UK’s ability to bolster Brexit deal to be hit by ‘career graveyard’ of Brussels work, Boris Johnson warned
Exclusive: ‘Morass’ of future talks looms, but status of EU posting has been ‘downgraded’ – and a brain drain is likely, according to think tank

 

Rob Merrick Deputy Political Editor
@Rob_Merrick 3 days ago

The UK’s ability to improve on the skeleton Brexit deal will be undermined by a posting in Brussels becoming “a career graveyard”, Boris Johnson is warned today.

 

The agreement has created a “morass of committees, review dates and discussions” on everything from the crisis in Northern Ireland to rows over fisheries, trade rules and security cooperation, a report says.

 

But the UK’s muscle in the EU’s capital has been “downgraded” from the most senior civil service level, it warns – after the post of ambassador was replaced with a “head of mission”.

 

more...
 

[Hi from France]

good news 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/21/wales-sets-up-its-own-erasmus-programme

 

 

 

Quote

The new programme “will then fill the gaps Turing leaves, including, crucially,

• the commitment to long-term funding,
• the retention of the principle of two-way exchanges
• and the inclusion of youth work,”

the Welsh government said.

 

[Hi from France]

16 hours ago, david555 said:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-eu-brussels-b1818471.html

very interesting, today when I asked @vinny41 about the absence of a UK embassy for the EU (it's not an embassy, it's a mission), he answered "we have one" citing the Belgian embassy instead.

 

The problem is the same that having Frost as a head of negotiations for the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement : you have the most vital issue for the UK and you send a guy who is simply out of his depth.

 

and after that, the UK complains that the treaty is not well negociated!

 

Frost was sidelined for a while, but he is now back, which means the UK is unable to improve or even tr properly manage the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

• UK  refuses to reopen talks on issues "that hurt the most" such as security, the plight of exporters and the end of permit-free tours for musicians.
• the ratification of the deal itself has been plunged into doubt, with the EU launching legal action over the UK’s breach of the Northern Ireland Protocol

 

 

.. and this will get worse, as the UK is still sending his worst employees and makes diplomatic work with the EU a career dead end

Quote

There are already fewer staff in Brussels (65) than in Paris (110) or Berlin (75) – even before a likely brain-drain, as “relations with the EU plummet down the list of political priorities”.

 

as for now the UK export stats to its main market, the EU, are beyond the worst of what was decried as "project fear".

 

after you reap what you sow: a catastrophe.

 

 

Note the BJ's popularity ratings are excellent, though

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

very interesting, today when I asked @vinny41 about the absence of a UK embassy for the EU (it's not an embassy, it's a mission), he answered "we have one" citing the Belgian embassy instead.

 

The problem is the same that having Frost as a head of negotiations for the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement : you have the most vital issue for the UK and you send a guy who is simply out of his depth.

 

and after that, the UK complains that the treaty is not well negociated!

 

Frost was sidelined for a while, but he is now back, which means the UK is unable to improve or even tr properly manage the EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement

• UK  refuses to reopen talks on issues "that hurt the most" such as security, the plight of exporters and the end of permit-free tours for musicians.
• the ratification of the deal itself has been plunged into doubt, with the EU launching legal action over the UK’s breach of the Northern Ireland Protocol

 

 

.. and this will get worse, as the UK is still sending his worst employees and makes diplomatic work with the EU a career dead end

 

as for now the UK export stats to its main market, the EU, are beyond the worst of what was decried as "project fear".

 

after you reap what you sow: a catastrophe.

 

 

Note the BJ's popularity ratings are excellent, though

 

 

The Good thing about Frosty is that the EU citizens love him so much that you don't want him replaced

[7by7]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The Good thing about Frosty is that the EU citizens love him so much that you don't want him replaced

 

The reason for that being he seems to be acting in the EU's interests rather than ours!

 

Unless he's an incompetent appointed by an incompetent!

[cocoonclub]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:10 PM, OswaldBastable said:

I see the 'red tape' as the EU's way of punishing the UK for leaving.

So when the UK created this red tape together with the other countries many years ago, (1) it not only was able to foresee that many years later Brexit would happen, (2) it also decided to punish itself for it?
 

  

[Hi from France]

Very pessimistic paper considering the expertise and change of stance of the authors 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/22/brexit-deal-no-deal-trade-and-cooperation-agreement

Even no deal might make more sense than this unstable Brexit agreement

Anand Menon and Jonathan Portes

Far from generating goodwill and a better working relationship, the trade and cooperation agreement has done the opposite

[adammike]

20 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The Good thing about Frosty is that the EU citizens love him so much that you don't want him replaced

They adore the unelected British Lords,making laws.

[Tofer]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:12 PM, Rookiescot said:

OK here is what we know.

The European Union remains world’s leading donor of Official Development Assistance with €75.2 billion in 2019 | International Partnerships (europa.eu)

But of course by using creative accountancy and different methodology you are trying to prove what? The UK gives more foreign aid than the EU? 

 

Yes. For crying out loud - read the chart to which my comments refer.

 

The UK are the highest percentage of GNI contributor from the DCA members aside from Norway, Luxembourg.

 

What's so difficult for you to understand in that statement. The figure you quote is for the EU countries in total and only represents 0.49% of their GNI, whereas the UK contributes 0.7% of their GNI. There's nothing creative about those statistics, which are not accounting by the way, just simple statistical facts.

 

 

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Yes. For crying out loud - read the chart to which my comments refer.

 

The UK are the highest percentage of GNI contributor from the DCA members aside from Norway, Luxembourg.

 

What's so difficult for you to understand in that statement. The figure you quote is for the EU countries in total and only represents 0.49% of their GNI, whereas the UK contributes 0.7% of their GNI. There's nothing creative about those statistics, which are not accounting by the way, just simple statistical facts.

 

 

No reference to GNI?