If Senate does not convict Trump, 'he can do this again,' Democrats warn

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

President Trump did no such thing, but let's wait for the verdict in his impeachment trial.

He's already been impeached. Again. Stunning you defend him.

[ExpatOK]

34 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

He's already been impeached. Again. Stunning you defend him.

 

Not stunning at all.  70 million people defend and support President Trump.

 

Remember, social media tends to lean toward being a left wing idealogical echo chamber.  Perhaps you should look around a little bit.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, ExpatOK said:

Quite an astute opinion. Do you really thing joe_i can last the entire four year term? You don't think he has signs of dementia?

Get ready for Kamala Harris to be in the white house. Soon.

Actual experts, gerontologists, strongly disagree with your assessment. But who are we to believe, mere experts in the field of gerontology or a highly partisan supporter of Donald Trump?

 

Trump, Biden Are Potential ‘Super Agers’ Whose Age Is ‘Not Relevant’ To Election, Study Finds

 Donald Trump and Joe Biden are likely to stay in good health for the duration of the next presidential term and may be “super agers” who will significantly outlive other men their age, a new study projects, undercutting criticisms about the septuagenarians’ age and mental fitness that have plagued both candidates on the campaign trail.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/09/25/trump-biden-age-study-super-agers-health/?sh=6c764b66ca87

[bunnydrops]

Just for fun. I found this post on another forum

 

"There was once a talented con-man, great at self-promotion, who came before a people who felt they had no leaders they could trust. He told them he was supremely capable of to solving all their problems, and would sweep away the other distrusted leaders. So they followed him, supported him and made him the highest leader of their land. By clever use of technology, he created an outsized, awe-inspiring presence before all the people, and this persona was either loved or feared among the people. But he was just a sad little man who made it all up, as Dorothy found out."

[impulse]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Actual experts, gerontologists, strongly disagree with your assessment. But who are we to believe, mere experts in the field of gerontology or a highly partisan supporter of Donald Trump?

 

Trump, Biden Are Potential ‘Super Agers’ Whose Age Is ‘Not Relevant’ To Election, Study Finds

 Donald Trump and Joe Biden are likely to stay in good health for the duration of the next presidential term and may be “super agers” who will significantly outlive other men their age, a new study projects, undercutting criticisms about the septuagenarians’ age and mental fitness that have plagued both candidates on the campaign trail.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/09/25/trump-biden-age-study-super-agers-health/?sh=6c764b66ca87

 

You mean like Reagan?  Sure, he survived both terms.  But he was pretty much senile and the USA was at the mercy of his neocon staff during the second half of his tenure.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

You mean like Reagan?  Sure, he survived both terms.  But he was pretty much senile and the USA was at the mercy of his neocon staff during the second half of his tenure.

 

I don't recall gerontologists doing an evaluation of Reagan so I have no idea of what you're referring to.

[cmarshall]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't recall gerontologists doing an evaluation of Reagan so I have no idea of what you're referring to.

 

Several people who had the opportunity to observe Reagan closely reached the conclusion that his Alzheimer's appeared during his first term, including his son, Ron Reagan, and Lesley Stahl

 

On CBS Online today, for instance, 60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl, in another new book on Reagan, describes a visit with her family to the White House in 1986, ending her time as a White House correspondent. She writes,

 

"Reagan didn't seem to know who I was. He gave me a distant look with those milky eyes and shook my hand weakly. Oh, my, he's gonzo, I thought. I have to go out on the lawn tonight and tell my countrymen that the president of the United States is a doddering space cadet."

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/201101/when-did-reagans-first-signs-alzheimers-appear

 

We would never have heard the news from gerontologists while Reagan was in office, since presidents and their doctors have a long history of covering up such illnesses.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Several people who had the opportunity to observe Reagan closely reached the conclusion that his Alzheimer's appeared during his first term, including his son, Ron Reagan, and Lesley Stahl

 

On CBS Online today, for instance, 60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl, in another new book on Reagan, describes a visit with her family to the White House in 1986, ending her time as a White House correspondent. She writes,

 

"Reagan didn't seem to know who I was. He gave me a distant look with those milky eyes and shook my hand weakly. Oh, my, he's gonzo, I thought. I have to go out on the lawn tonight and tell my countrymen that the president of the United States is a doddering space cadet."

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/side-effects/201101/when-did-reagans-first-signs-alzheimers-appear

 

We would never have heard the news from gerontologists while Reagan was in office, since presidents and their doctors have a long history of covering up such illnesses.

This is isn't about Reagan. And doctors not telling could be they're hiding something or that there's nothing to hide. I've read several transcripts of extended interviews with Biden, and there's nothing there that I can see to indicate dementia for whatever my opinion is worth.. Nor for Trump either. Although in his case, the psychological pathology is clear. An opinion which I share with many experts.

[mistral53]

There seems to be a disconnect here that ought to be noticed by the general public, regardless of political bias: Some of the videos that were shown about the 'mob' showed a surprisingly mild mannered entry into the Capitol building - flag waving, walking disoriented, it look almost like they were surprised to have entered the building and did not know what to do next. The only thing disturbing in the videos were the weasels currying startled about, I think they are called politicians?

 

If this was a carefully pre-planned assault as it is made out to be, there would have been fires and massive destruction - one broken window does not a Kristallnacht make............

 

For the record, I am not impressed by the ex-president and his policies, he was neither goof for America nor the rest of the world.

[helpisgood]

30 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

For the record, I am not impressed by the ex-president and his policies, he was neither goof [sic] for America nor the rest of the world.  [added sic]

 

A "goof for America"?  Yeah, I know it was a typo from a good post.  The "f" is next to the "d" on the keyboard.  Anyway, I agree with your first paragraphs.  

 

However, saying Trump was a "goof for America" was actually an even better description.  Thanks!

Edited February 12, 2021 by helpisgood
added phrase

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

There seems to be a disconnect here that ought to be noticed by the general public, regardless of political bias: Some of the videos that were shown about the 'mob' showed a surprisingly mild mannered entry into the Capitol building - flag waving, walking disoriented, it look almost like they were surprised to have entered the building and did not know what to do next. The only thing disturbing in the videos were the weasels currying startled about, I think they are called politicians?

 

If this was a carefully pre-planned assault as it is made out to be, there would have been fires and massive destruction - one broken window does not a Kristallnacht make............

 

For the record, I am not impressed by the ex-president and his policies, he was neither goof for America nor the rest of the world.

Clearly you haven't watched the impeachment proceedings. The prosecution introduced as evidence never before seen videos of the rioters taken by the CCTVs. And the goal of many of the demonstrators was not to wage destruction but to murder certain members of the house and senate.  Many of the videos show them doing just that. Of course, you may believe that they were looking for House and Senate members just to shake their hands.

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/house-impeachment-managers-show-footage-of-capitol-rioters-searching-for-pelosi-100824133975

[helpisgood]

49 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

There seems to be a disconnect here that ought to be noticed by the general public, regardless of political bias: Some of the videos that were shown about the 'mob' showed a surprisingly mild mannered entry into the Capitol building - flag waving, walking disoriented, it look almost like they were surprised to have entered the building and did not know what to do next. The only thing disturbing in the videos were the weasels currying startled about, I think they are called politicians?

 

If this was a carefully pre-planned assault as it is made out to be, there would have been fires and massive destruction - one broken window does not a Kristallnacht make............

 

For the record, I am not impressed by the ex-president and his policies, he was neither goof for America nor the rest of the world.

As Placeholder correctly points out there was also violence and threats of violence.

 

Plus, there's the mere fact that we have video of the mob breaking and entering (burglary?), and then trespassing on federal property.  I am too tired to look that up, but I imagine those are federal felonies especially since that was the Capitol.  

 

Most interesting for me is that these people allowed themselves to be filmed.  "Yeah, before we finish with the armed robbery, let's take a selfie with the victim."  

 

Good night, Folks!

Edited February 12, 2021 by helpisgood
clarify

[watthong]

7 hours ago, cmarshall said:

For these and a host of other reasons, the impeachment process has failed every time it has been tried with a president.  So, it is a feature of the Constitution that has simply failed to live up to its purpose.  Unfortunately, no better procedure can be devised, because the Constitution will never be amended again.  So, we are stuck without an effective protection for the republic against the abuses of power of a president.  As we now see in spades. 

 

Also, on any ordinary day, ie non-impeaching day, something is wrong when the likes of Josh Hawley and Marjorie Greene show up on the floors of Congress. A ruby red district decide (rightly so) that they have a voice in Congress and install a monstrous human being into the Chambers. Other Congress members simply have to swallow the outrage of having such creature in their midst and bid the time? Isn't it their duty to keep the Congress pristine and sacred? The fact that Greene was allowed to keep her seat shows that Congress is unable to wipe its own backside.

 

For what it is worth, why was impeachment not called for when Trump first declared that the only way he would lose the election was if it was rigged. Right then and  there he had announced to the American people that he would not accept the result of a fair election; or simply put he would not accept such a thing as a fair election, period, because if it wasn't rigged, then he would win, end of discussion. On that basis alone, he should have been impeached or removed from office.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, mistral53 said:

There seems to be a disconnect here that ought to be noticed by the general public, regardless of political bias: Some of the videos that were shown about the 'mob' showed a surprisingly mild mannered entry into the Capitol building - flag waving, walking disoriented, it look almost like they were surprised to have entered the building and did not know what to do next. The only thing disturbing in the videos were the weasels currying startled about, I think they are called politicians?

 

If this was a carefully pre-planned assault as it is made out to be, there would have been fires and massive destruction - one broken window does not a Kristallnacht make............

 

For the record, I am not impressed by the ex-president and his policies, he was neither goof for America nor the rest of the world.

There are also videos showing entries being stormed and the police overwhelmed.  Once that happened people could easily enter unimpeded.

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, watthong said:

 

Also, on any ordinary day, ie non-impeaching day, something is wrong when the likes of Josh Hawley and Marjorie Greene show up on the floors of Congress. A ruby red district decide (rightly so) that they have a voice in Congress and install a monstrous human being into the Chambers. Other Congress members simply have to swallow the outrage of having such creature in their midst and bid the time? Isn't it their duty to keep the Congress pristine and sacred? The fact that Greene was allowed to keep her seat shows that Congress is unable to wipe its own backside.

 

For what it is worth, why was impeachment not called for when Trump first declared that the only way he would lose the election was if it was rigged. Right then and  there he had announced to the American people that he would not accept the result of a fair election; or simply put he would not accept such a thing as a fair election, period, because if it wasn't rigged, then he would win, end of discussion. On that basis alone, he should have been impeached or removed from office.

Ideally he would have been impeached for his habit of saying whatever entered his head without considering the consequences (a Presidents words have consequences, often dire, and must be chosen carefully), his attack on the press and First Amendment, his giving Russian highly classified information, and many other reasons.  But...

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

 

Edit:  Post with unsubstantiated claim and reply removed.

 

[cmarshall]

7 hours ago, placeholder said:

This is isn't about Reagan. And doctors not telling could be they're hiding something or that there's nothing to hide. I've read several transcripts of extended interviews with Biden, and there's nothing there that I can see to indicate dementia for whatever my opinion is worth.. Nor for Trump either. Although in his case, the psychological pathology is clear. An opinion which I share with many experts.

 

Trump is clearly in cognitive decline.  If you watch one of the youtube videos from the 80's of Trump being interviewed and compare with his current performance, the difference is stark.  Back then he spoke in complete sentences, used the vocabulary one would expect from a college graduate, didn't ramble, and stayed on topic.  Psychiatrists have pointed out that Trump's rages are another symptom of dementia.  

 

None of this is true of Biden.

[cmarshall]

3 hours ago, watthong said:

 

Also, on any ordinary day, ie non-impeaching day, something is wrong when the likes of Josh Hawley and Marjorie Greene show up on the floors of Congress. A ruby red district decide (rightly so) that they have a voice in Congress and install a monstrous human being into the Chambers. Other Congress members simply have to swallow the outrage of having such creature in their midst and bid the time? Isn't it their duty to keep the Congress pristine and sacred? The fact that Greene was allowed to keep her seat shows that Congress is unable to wipe its own backside.

 

For what it is worth, why was impeachment not called for when Trump first declared that the only way he would lose the election was if it was rigged. Right then and  there he had announced to the American people that he would not accept the result of a fair election; or simply put he would not accept such a thing as a fair election, period, because if it wasn't rigged, then he would win, end of discussion. On that basis alone, he should have been impeached or removed from office.

 

South Korea has a better impeachment process.  The National Assembly has to vote by at least two thirds to impeach, but the vote itself is secret, so that the Assembly members are not so easily targeted for reprisals as a result of the vote.  The trial is conducted by the Constitutional Court, not the legislature.  And it works.  They removed President Park Gyeun-hye, who is now in prison.

 

Trump committed numerous impeachable offenses as well as crimes.  Let's hope he now faces the criminal justice system.  DA Fani Wills in GA could put him in prison for a long stretch.

[johnmell]

Pretty obvious Trump deserves to be found guilty. However it is quite funny watching the CNN crew acting like spoilt kids, now their side is going to lose again.

( Is there a national tv station in the US that is strictly neutral? )

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, johnmell said:

Pretty obvious Trump deserves to be found guilty. However it is quite funny watching the CNN crew acting like spoilt kids, now their side is going to lose again.

( Is there a national tv station in the US that is strictly neutral? )

Lose? It's not CNN who's losing. It's America who's had a criminal as president supported by a bunch of spineless scared cats. Time for them to honor their oath. Not just protect their political futures.

 

Trump’s already impeached. This step is trying to show you can't commit a crime in your final days in office. Makes sense.

[earlinclaifornia]

If the Senate convicts, as a registered Independent I will vote Republican up and down. Let's see if country over party still exists. 

[earlinclaifornia]

8 hours ago, johnmell said:

Pretty obvious Trump deserves to be found guilty. However it is quite funny watching the CNN crew acting like spoilt kids, now their side is going to lose again.

( Is there a national tv station in the US that is strictly neutral? )

Yes CNN

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, earlinclaifornia said:

If the Senate convicts, as a registered Independent I will vote Republican up and down. Let's see if country over party still exists. 

Won't happen.

[ExpatOK]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Won't happen.

Agree. Pelosi doesn't have a case.

 

Then there's this

 

Singling out Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., Lawrence tweeted earlier this week: "I’ve never been verified on Twitter so why did my Tweet used in the fact-free impeachment include a verification badge?"

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/impeachment-team-fake-blue-check-tweet-impeachment

Edited February 13, 2021 by ExpatOK

[ExpatOK]

1 hour ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Yes CNN

ahhh no, just no.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

Trump is clearly in cognitive decline.  If you watch one of the youtube videos from the 80's of Trump being interviewed and compare with his current performance, the difference is stark.  Back then he spoke in complete sentences, used the vocabulary one would expect from a college graduate, didn't ramble, and stayed on topic.  Psychiatrists have pointed out that Trump's rages are another symptom of dementia.  

 

None of this is true of Biden.

But cognitve decline, which is pretty much universal as people age, is not the same as dementia. From a psychological standpoint, there's clearly something seriously wrong  with Trump. But it's not dementia. As I've cited elsewhere, some gerontologists did a study of Biden and Trump, and concluded that most likely there were super-agers.

[cmarshall]

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But cognitve decline, which is pretty much universal as people age, is not the same as dementia. From a psychological standpoint, there's clearly something seriously wrong  with Trump. But it's not dementia. As I've cited elsewhere, some gerontologists did a study of Biden and Trump, and concluded that most likely there were super-agers.

 

Trump has pronounced cognitive decline.  Whether it crosses the threshold to dementia is less important than that he is wholly incapable of performing the duties of his former office .  And then he is also clearly a psychopath.

 

The "study" you cite sounds ludicrous.

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree. Pelosi doesn't have a case.

 

Then there's this

 

Singling out Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., Lawrence tweeted earlier this week: "I’ve never been verified on Twitter so why did my Tweet used in the fact-free impeachment include a verification badge?"

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/impeachment-team-fake-blue-check-tweet-impeachment

I'm curious, do you hold anyone responsible for the Capitol riot?

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree. Pelosi doesn't have a case.

 

Then there's this

 

Singling out Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., Lawrence tweeted earlier this week: "I’ve never been verified on Twitter so why did my Tweet used in the fact-free impeachment include a verification badge?"

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/impeachment-team-fake-blue-check-tweet-impeachment

Yeah like thats a real substantive issue.

 

A defense lawyer using something like that to say he is innocent is really clutching at immaginary straws.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Sujo

[Sujo]

42 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I'm curious, do you hold anyone responsible for the Capitol riot?

Its a simple question. If it werent for trumps speech would it have happened.

 

It seems not, because when he finally tweeted to stop they went home.

 

There is your answer.