U.S. Border Patrol arrests 4,500 migrants in a day, a major increase amid fears of surge

[Jeffr2]

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-immigration-united-states-1efbf1f357a5210d2433b48820b9aa54

 

Still, the encounters of both unaccompanied minors and families are lower than they were at various points during the Trump administration, including in spring 2019.

 

“We will have, I believe, by next month enough of those beds to take care of these children who have no place to go,” Biden said in a recent ABC News interview, when asked whether his administration should have anticipated the surge in young unaccompanied migrants as well as families and adults. He added, “Let’s get something straight though. The vast majority of people crossing the border are being sent back ... immediately sent back.”

 

But Isacson added that the bottleneck was also affected by the lack of cooperation by the Trump administration with the Biden transition.

[Scott]

A post with an oversized emoticon has been removed.  

 

[Rimmer]

A post linking to and quoting a less than reliable source web site have been removed

[Thomas J]

With over 30 million illegals in the USA.  That is 1 out of every 10 people.  I would be surprised if you could find a company of any size that did not have one or more illegals on its payroll.  That would include the likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.  However back to the germane part of the discussion which dealt not with Trump but with illegal immigration.  If the USA wants to stop it, they need to clamp down on employers _ All Employers_ and impose penalties including prison for those who are habitual repeat offenders.   

If illegals can not work, rent, drive, or bank in the USA they will self deport.  Now you can work on immigration "reform" which should include who the USA wishes to "invite" and enact "requirements" for entry.  Not the current system that essentially rewards illegal entry and punishes those who wish entry into the USA by following the rules.  The USA needs immigrants.  However if given a choice between one with an employable skill and one that has none, it should give preference to the one that is most likely to be self supporting. 

If the USA and other countries feel compelled to help the less fortunate people around the world, they would do a lot more by providing aid to those countries to improve conditions there.  Taking in their citizens just means that the cycle of poverty continues for the next generation there. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
reply to hidden quote/off topic comments removed

[SunnyinBangrak]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

3 things are creating this surge.  1-Covid.  Times are tough in these countries and the people are desperate. 2-Hurricanes.  They've had 2 recently.  The damage was really bad. And combined with Covid, it's a real mess. 3-The departure of Trump.  Nuff said.

4 things. Don't forget Joe literally invited them

"What I would do as president is several more things, because things have changed. I would, in fact, make sure that there is, we immediately surge to the border — all those people are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard. That’s who we are. We’re a nation who says, if you want to flee, and you’re freeing oppression, you should come."

From the 1st Presidential debate, or if physical link to text is required

https://www.dailywire.com/news/bidens-2019-surge-to-the-border-comments-resurface-amid-growing-crisis

 

[Henryford]

The Democrats want millions of migrants so they vote Democrat. Same as the liberals flooded Europe with gimme grants.

[johnnybangkok]

On 3/21/2021 at 12:58 PM, Thomas J said:

With over 30 million illegals in the USA.  That is 1 out of every 10 people.  I would be surprised if you could find a company of any size that did not have one or more illegals on its payroll.  That would include the likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc.  However back to the germane part of the discussion which dealt not with Trump but with illegal immigration.  If the USA wants to stop it, they need to clamp down on employers _ All Employers_ and impose penalties including prison for those who are habitual repeat offenders.   

If illegals can not work, rent, drive, or bank in the USA they will self deport.  Now you can work on immigration "reform" which should include who the USA wishes to "invite" and enact "requirements" for entry.  Not the current system that essentially rewards illegal entry and punishes those who wish entry into the USA by following the rules.  The USA needs immigrants.  However if given a choice between one with an employable skill and one that has none, it should give preference to the one that is most likely to be self supporting. 

If the USA and other countries feel compelled to help the less fortunate people around the world, they would do a lot more by providing aid to those countries to improve conditions there.  Taking in their citizens just means that the cycle of poverty continues for the next generation there. 

 

There are many things in your comment I disagree with (Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. and companies of a significant size have illegal immigrants – I don’t think so) ... however you have hit on one of the possible solutions to the problem.

 

The wall was never going to stop illegal immigration since the vast majority of illegal immigrants are visa over-stayers, coming to the US legally and then just not going back. During 2017, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) found that 701,900 immigrants with visas remained in the U.S. past their expected departure date which is more than double the 303,916 immigrants apprehended at the border during that same time frame. The report by the Center for Migration Studies found this pattern to be true for every year since 2007.

 

This is why Trump and his wall nonsense never made any sense. Not only is it completely ineffective in stopping illegal immigration - as already mentioned, the majority are not using the border crossing, airplanes can get over walls and determined people will never be put off by such a flimsy physical barrier - but the vast amount of money required to extend and maintain the wall (estimated at anything between $25 billion and $70 billion) would be much better spent looking at more effective solutions - such as going after employers. 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/358892-to-tackle-illegal-immigration-go-after-the-employers

 

This has been known for quite some time as the best solution to illegal immigration and there are currently systems in place that could do this but there was no political will from Trump and the GOP as this solution didn’t play to his panicked, xenophobic base who believe that illegal immigrants are the root of all evil and I suspect Biden will follow the usual, ineffective solutions that have been wheeled out by all administrations for decades as I think ALL parties understand there needs to be a ready made pool of cheap labour to fuel US recovery and get the jobs done that many Americans turn their nose up at and of course, former illegal immigrants almost universally vote Dem eventually.

 

The problem can be sorted but does anyone really want to?

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

The problem can be sorted but does anyone really want to?

The GOP are using illegal immigration to rile up their base.  From what you read here from a few members, it works!  They've fallen for it.

The dems are using it for political gain also.  New voters that are typically on their side.

Politics at it's worst.  Though I have to side with the dems.  The US can help these poor people.  Especially since we helped create a part of the mess they are dealing with now.

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

The problem can be sorted but does anyone really want to?

Well I disagree with you regarding other companies.  I can tell you I worked for one of the largest banks in the country and provided administration services for large corporate clients retirement plans.  

We literally would have it where the company would send in forms to change the name on the retirement account from lets say Pedro Rodriquez to Jose Sanchez using the same social security number.  And these were some of the largest employers in the USA.  

With 10% of the total population illegal, they are obviously "working" someplace and I would be willing to bet a lot of money that with some investigation you would find places including Microsoft, Google, IBM, Facebook etc all have people on their payrolls that are illegal.  Now whether they know about them or not is a different matter.  I suspect many of them have been duped with fake id.  

I do totally agree with you.  Does anyone really want the situation to change.  Certainly many taxpayers, and communities that are negatively impacted by the influx of illegals do.  Certainly the low income workers who now have to compete for wages do. 

I agree with you also that the wall was at best minimally effective.  We have extensive measures to combat drugs yet they still get in.  The best way as said, is to make it impossible to live here and make it a crime and punish those who facilitate it.  That includes the Banks, Apartment buildings, etc that allow illegals to function. 

I know living here in Thailand I can not open a bank account without the proper visa.  I can not rent a home without a proper visa, I can not own or obtain a drivers license without a visa and I can not work without a proper visa.   All countries should do the same in fairness to their citizens. 
 

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The GOP are using illegal immigration to rile up their base.  From what you read here from a few members, it works!  They've fallen for it.

The dems are using it for political gain also.  New voters that are typically on their side.

Politics at it's worst.  Though I have to side with the dems.  The US can help these poor people.  Especially since we helped create a part of the mess they are dealing with now.

Considering it takes more than five years to apply for citizenship after receiving permanent residence in the US are you of the view your claim is realistic?

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/brochures/USCIS_Welcomes_Refugees_and_Asylees.pdf

Regards your observation above of refugees permitted entry to the EU would be a good idea to check the facts on why Merkel permitted entry to apply for asylum status, plus also a very lengthy period of time prior to permission to apply for citizenship.

[johnnybangkok]

55 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I do totally agree with you.  Does anyone really want the situation to change.  Certainly many taxpayers, and communities that are negatively impacted by the influx of illegals do.  Certainly the low income workers who now have to compete for wages do. 


 

These are plenty of conflicting opinions on this and I personally think much of the narrative has been hijacked by the right wing, anti-immigration, racist and/or xenephobic crowd. Here's an interesting study that contradicts some of what you are saying (but also agrees with much of what you say):- 

'Professor Jaynes began his remarks by stating that his views on this topic had changed on the basis of his research on immigration and its effects on race and ethnic relations. He contrasted his initial view that immigration had negative effects on the jobs and wages of blacks with his present view that negative effects are mostly absent or modest at worst, for a small segment of the lowest skilled workers. His thinking changed, he said, due to a large scale statistical analysis of the U.S. labor market he conducted with University of Wisconsin social demographer Franklin Wilson, which was published in 2000. Among other variables, their study looked at race, ethnicity, gender, and blue-collar versus white-collar workers. Dr. Jaynes said he was surprised to discover that employment effects were negligible and wage effects only modestly negative for the least-skilled blacks................he cautioned that a host of socio economic changes provide an alternative explanation for the deteriorating economic circumstances of low-skilled black workers.'   https://www.usccr.gov/pubs/docs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf

 

Many argue that the overall economic benefit of illegal immigrants outweigh the negatives but the subject is nuanced and contradictory so it is hard to say for absolute sure it is all good. It is however equally untrue to say it is all bad.

Edited March 21, 2021 by johnnybangkok

[johnnybangkok]

On 3/21/2021 at 3:13 PM, Thomas J said:

To say any item is totally good or totally bad is likely not true.  The workers do provide some labor.  However in terms of them being a net economic benefit I doubt it.  Most work for very very low wages.  63% of them are on some form of public assistance, to say nothing of the additional social costs of education, healthcare, additional police and fire.  

23% of all Federal prisoners are illegals despite not being anywhere's close to that in terms of their percentage of the population. 

Irrespective of whether they are a net economic benefit or not.  I may be a net positive economic benefit to Thailand but that does not automatically give me the right to legally reside here.   

Residing in any country illegally should be made as difficult as possible if not impossible.  Then each and every country owes it to its citizens to have rules and enforce those rules as to who that country wishes to invite.  A person who enters the country illegally is not an "undocumented immigrant"  They are a lawbreaker.  No different than if someone breaks into your home, they are guilty of breaking and entering and not considered an "undocumented guest"

There are many, better informed individuals who would disagree with you on whether illegal immigrants are a 'net economic benefit';-

 

'Illegal immigration benefits employers and unauthorized immigrants while it puts downward pressure on U.S. wages. However, according to this report by University of California, San Diego Professor of Economics Gordon Hanson, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the U.S. economy is small. The modest net gain that remains after subtracting U.S. workers’ losses from U.S. employers’ gains is tiny; and if one accounts for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash'.   https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/economics-and-policy-illegal-immigration-united-states

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

 

You are also more than welcome to post a link that confirms '63% of them are on some form of public assistance............' as I couldn't find a single article or government paper to back this statement up. I did find plenty though that says completely the opposite i.e. they do not receive anything ;- 

'Undocumented immigrants, including DACA holders, are ineligible to receive most federal public benefits, including means-tested benefits such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, sometimes referred to as food stamps), regular Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for health care subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and are prohibited from purchasing unsubsidized health coverage on ACA exchanges. Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for a handful of benefits that are deemed necessary to protect life or guarantee safety in dire situations, such as emergency Medicaid, access to treatment in hospital emergency rooms, or access to healthcare and nutrition programs under the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).'

 https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

 

Also, you make a point about 'Residing in any country illegally should be made as difficult as possible if not impossible' when that's exactly what it is in the US with illegal immigrants not having a good life at all. They live in poverty, are constantly victimised (they can't call the police) and are in constant fear of being caught. They also have very little chance of becoming legal -

 

 'Unauthorized immigrants who entered the United States without being legally admitted and inspected are generally not eligible to obtain green cards while still inside the country. Even if there is a visa available, they are barred from "adjusting status" and getting a green card without leaving the country because of how they entered the United States. Leaving the country to obtain a visa can have significant negative consequences as well. Any person who has been out of status for more than six months is barred from any legal immigration status for three years—or 10 years if the person has been out of status for more than a year.

 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/why-don’t-they-just-get-line

 

Your post comes across as very anecdotal and lacking any comprehensive facts or figures to back much of your asertions. Perhaps you could help us all with that (as I have done) by backing up your thoughts with some solid evidence.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
shortened for fair use

[johnnybangkok]

My apologies, I did find the article mentioning the 63% figure https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs however I also found the rebuke to it which states:- 

 

...University of California, Davis Law School Dean and immigration expert Kevin Johnson said immigrants cannot be over consuming public benefits because they are not eligible to receive the benefits in the first place. “To say that the general rate of use by immigrants of public benefits is anywhere close to 50 percent is an exaggeration and just isn’t supported by the evidence,” he said. To recap, the Trump administration’s claim that the majority -- more than 50 percent -- of immigrant households use welfare leaves out important context.

 

https://www.clasp.org/press-room/news-clips/verify-are-most-immigrants-welfare

 

As usual, context is everything.

[Scott]

Posts with false information and unapproved sources removed along with troll posts and replies.  

 

[Yahooka]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:22 AM, Jeffr2 said:

What did the DNC sow? 

Inviting in people who under other circumstances would be ineligible for residence in the US .

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Yahooka said:

Inviting in people who under other circumstances would be ineligible for residence in the US .

 

Quite the opposite - Biden has clearly stated don't come - infrastructure, resources and enacted legislation are currently insufficient to enable timely assessment and so on of applicants. Would also require government to government agreements in-place in order to return declined applicants.

[Jeffr2]

5 hours ago, Yahooka said:

Inviting in people who under other circumstances would be ineligible for residence in the US .

Who invited these people in?  I've not seen that.  Other than the inscription on the Statue of Liberty.  Maybe you are referring to her?

[impulse]

On 3/18/2021 at 8:05 PM, Jeffr2 said:

You finally get it.  Biden's proposal is contingent on them dealing with corruption.  Trump just cut funding.  A huge difference.  Hope you can see that.

https://joebiden.com/centralamerica/

As president, Joe Biden will renew a robust commitment to U.S. leadership in the region and pursue a comprehensive strategy for Central America by: 

• Developing a comprehensive four-year, $4 billion regional strategy to address factors driving migration from Central America; 
• Mobilizing private investment in the region;
• Improving security and rule of law;
• Addressing endemic corruption;
• Prioritizing poverty reduction and economic development.

 2 words.  LIP SERVICE

 

The USA will keep giving money to gub'ments who will put the majority into the pockets of corrupt politicians and let well connected US companies get away with all kinds of atrocities in the name of globalization.   

 

Reducing poverty would mean lower profits for Chiquita (et al).  So that ain't gonna happen.

 

And when that gravy train is threatened, they'll send more immigrants north until it's back on track.   It's a time honored tradition.  At least it was until the last administration.

Edited March 22, 2021 by impulse

[Jeffr2]

12 hours ago, impulse said:

 2 words.  LIP SERVICE

 

The USA will keep giving money to gub'ments who will put the majority into the pockets of corrupt politicians and let well connected US companies get away with all kinds of atrocities in the name of globalization.   

 

Reducing poverty would mean lower profits for Chiquita (et al).  So that ain't gonna happen.

 

And when that gravy train is threatened, they'll send more immigrants north until it's back on track.   It's a time honored tradition.  At least it was until the last administration.

The last administration helped create this mess!  That was hardly lip service.

 

Agree that corruption is a big problem there.  Just like in pretty much every other developing country.  Heck, even in the US.

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[Enzian]

These arguments that immigrants don't affect wages are absurd. Around 1990 I was getting $40/hr as a licensed freelance carpenter in CA(and even that was because I was good at kinds of finish work which are not the Mexicans' strong point). This was about the middle or later part of the big immigration wave. If I were the same working age now as then and went back to it I'd be getting the same hourly as 30 years ago. There's a reason.

[Jeffr2]

You'll have to show a credible link where Biden invites migrants to cross the border.  I've not seen that.  Another member tried, but the statement was taken out of context.  I'll wait....

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, Enzian said:

These arguments that immigrants don't affect wages are absurd. Around 1990 I was getting $40/hr as a licensed freelance carpenter in CA(and even that was because I was good at kinds of finish work which are not the Mexicans' strong point). This was about the middle or later part of the big immigration wave. If I were the same working age now as then and went back to it I'd be getting the same hourly as 30 years ago. There's a reason.

Seems carpenters in CA make OK money.  Around 64k/year.  Not bad...

 

https://www.indeed.com/career/carpenter/salaries/CA

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/journeyman-carpenter-salary/ca

[WaveHunter]

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

You'll have to show a credible link where Biden invites migrants to cross the border.  I've not seen that.  Another member tried, but the statement was taken out of context.  I'll wait....

It's kind of funny how many things Biden says or does seem to be explained by his supporters as being "taken out of context". 

 

There is nothing ambiguous about his executive orders with regard to the Southern border, or how the current administration is dealing with the resulting "challenge", as they put it, and everyone in the real world clearly sees as a CRISIS.

 

Of course, when pressed, their only defence is to blame the former administration for the crisis that the current administration so clearly created. 

 

Hearing Pelosi spew this nonsense at a press briefing the other day in an almost irrational diatribe was priceless!

 

Yeah, the world of politics is a very funny place until you realize what's really at stake.

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[WaveHunter]

The PROOF is the Executive Orders which are indisputable and what's happening on the Southern border right now, and the fact that the current administration is banning coverage of much of what's going on there right now, and still referring to it as a manageable "challenge" even though FEMA has been mobilized, which by definition classifies it as a Crisis. 

 

All of that is just "fake news"?  Wow...I think that's the definition of irrational denial, but of course, that's just my personal opinion ????

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Jeffr2]

It is a problem.  I think the big impact is illegal workers.  Make them legal, and things might change.  Also, jobs change.  Some get better with time, some don't.  Perhaps upgrading your skills would be a good thing also?  Education is a good thing, doesn't have to be college.

 

In the end, the biggest mess we have with immigration is politics.  ... Hold the politicians accountable for action.  Not words.  Our last president promised many things that never came to be.  Hold them accountable. 

[EricTh]

On 3/5/2021 at 7:31 AM, PatOngo said:

But, the wall, the big, beautiful wall, the wall that Mexico will pay for, what happened??? 

 

Trump is all talk and no action?

 

I doubt Mexico is going to pay for it considering it doesn't do them any good.

 

[Jeffr2]

... yes, the current surge is partially due to Biden being a bit nicer to immigrants than the last president.  Who was down right hostile.  It's also due to other factors.  And in the end, politics is the biggest problem.  They've been kicking the can down the road for decades.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[EVENKEEL]

Even CNN is starting to call out biden on the border crisis. Just what we need, a "nice" president.

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Even CNN is starting to call out biden on the border crisis. Just what we need, a "nice" president.

Congrats to CNN for doing that!  Did you ever see Fox calling out Trump for his mistakes?  Ummm...like never.

 

I'll take a "nice" president any day over one who lies and berates others.  ... It's one of the biggest problems in the US today.  Lack of civility and respect towards others.

Edited March 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
personal comments removed

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Even CNN is starting to call out biden on the border crisis. Just what we need, a "nice" president.

Nice is good. Immoral, indecent and disregard of the law is bad.