Thailand suffers sharp fall in rankings of best countries for retirement

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

 

If you have to ask me where I'm going to pay 10 times more than the locals I would question your assertation you've been here as long as you say you have.
 

I didn't say I'm having trouble with immigration. I said I'm weary of the stupid system. At my age I still have decades of it ahead of me. So you went there 8 - 10 times (and how were you reporting actually, online hasn't been around that long), let's give that some perspective: My stepdaughter spent her formative years in the UK. Within 2 years she had ILR, which lasts forever, and she never had to visit immigration one. Not once. A year later she was registered as British. Now, you can say well local laws local rules respect them blah blah blah... Well I do respect them insofar as I go through the motions because I have no choice in order to hold my family unit together. Nothing you or anyone else can say to me will convince me the system isn't a piece of s#!t. . .

 

 

Since you're inferring I might be such a person, I'll say this. Indefinite Leave to Remain was always free of charge in the UK up until the moment European free movement was introduced, at which point the Home Office started charging for it. . . so if you want to take this route in the conversation, yes, I strongly objected to the fact the wives and children of British Citizens are financially raped just to stay together, while those with no ties to the UK were able to come and go visa free and at no cost. I'll be very happy to take you on with this topic, if you dare.

 

 

I can count on one hand the number of places I go in a year that have double pricing. I'm always amused at the guys that drive a half a day to take the kids someplace and then show their *** and turn around with a car full of crying kids for fifty Baht. A lot of places seem to charge the local price if your with you wife and kids anyway. And it seems you almost always get the local price if you show your work permit. 

 

What is stupid about about the the system? Okay, the endless photo copies and taking taking a family photo once a year seem silly, but it just does not seem like that big a deal to me. If you're working, does the company you work for not take care of your visa?

 

I worked the first 18 years I was here and got-two year visas. Actually I think the first visa I got with my work permit was three years. I also traveled for work a good bit so I was almost never in the country for 90 days, and when I was I think the office took care of reporting. I did get fined for overstay once when leaving the country.

 

I don't have any idea how you feel about immigration in your home county, but I'm not real happy about the immigration situation in my home country,  so while there are a lot of things that annoy me here, meeting the minimal immigration requirements is not one of them. I'm glad they try to keep track of people.

[ricardofel]

I thought I would live the rest of my life in Thailand until I saw the reality of the country. The pollution & environmental issues, corruption and the education of my young son. Had a beautiful townhouse in HuaHin, sold it and moved to ChiangMai. Bought a beautiful property and house in Saraphi and 26 rai of land in the mountains,  life was good. Decided to leave when my son was 5, Thai wife decided not to leave with us, long story. Was very fortunate to sell the land 2 weeks before we left. Bought a house in California, sold the house in Chiang Mai 7 months later. 

My son has thrived in California in all areas, top student, played all sports for 3 years and then got onto the local swim team.....5 years later and he continues practice 5 days a week. Has been a talented actor since he was 8: theater and movies. Straight A student! America has issues like the repugnant republicans, but life is clean: no pollution to deal with. Cost of living is a little higher but that's part of the trade-off. Organic products are real...not like fake organic in Thailand. So for me....life is good.....and for my son!

[shdmn]

I've fairly recently started considering the PI instead of Thailand.  No visa hassles and very friendly people who genuinely like westerners.  Another big one is that almost everyone speaks English.  They are doing massive improvements to the infrastructure so I think that is getting better as well.

 

I think I will always like visiting Thailand for short and medium term stays but it is no longer so appealing to me for retirement.  

Edited March 7, 2021 by shdmn

[Enzian]

It does seem to me that the powers that be have control issues, which beyond a certain point become something like a mental health issue. They seem concerned that if they are  too nice to the guests, then some day the "guests" will be the ones actually in charge. And they have an ancient culture that they don't want to be changed or corrupted by the well-paying guests, not appreciating that change is always inevitable. They can't have it both ways--take the money, exclude the egalitarian rationalist influence--but the ones alive today will probably keep trying.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I can count on one hand the number of places I go in a year that have double pricing. I'm always amused at the guys that drive a half a day to take the kids someplace and then show their *** and turn around with a car full of crying kids for fifty Baht. A lot of places seem to charge the local price if your with you wife and kids anyway. And it seems you almost always get the local price if you show your work permit. 

 

What is stupid about about the the system? Okay, the endless photo copies and taking taking a family photo once a year seem silly, but it just does not seem like that big a deal to me. If you're working, does the company you work for not take care of your visa?

 

I worked the first 18 years I was here and got-two year visas. Actually I think the first visa I got with my work permit was three years. I also traveled for work a good bit so I was almost never in the country for 90 days, and when I was I think the office took care of reporting. I did get fined for overstay once when leaving the country.

 

I don't have any idea how you feel about immigration in your home county, but I'm not real happy about the immigration situation in my home country,  so while there are a lot of things that annoy me here, meeting the minimal immigration requirements is not one of them. I'm glad they try to keep track of people.

 

 

I get that it doesn't bother you, but please stop trying to belittle my opinion that either me or my wife losing 10 working days a year just to chase down a pointless paper trail for my immigration status or work permit is not a problem for us or our company. It IS a problem. It costs the family, our staff and the company a stupid amount of time annually just to keep one lousy farang legal, and you're not going to convince me it's "Not a biggie"

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Freigeist365]

Well, this is what you get if you treat potential long term foreign guests/clients like sewer rats.

[skorp13]

Thailand declining as a retiree place seems to be what they are after so they seem to be accomplishing something

[Rocking Robert]

On 3/6/2021 at 4:06 AM, Pilotman said:

Well I am sure that they are not at all disappointed with this.  I think that we are definitely seen as an unwanted 'burden' on Thailand rather than any kind of advantage.  I have thought for a long time that there is a half hidden policy to phase we retired people out over the next few years.  As more of us here die off, they will make it increasingly difficult for up coming retirees to settle here.  Their loss in the end. 

Yes they’re really going to miss that guy who lives on 1000 baht a month

[shdmn]

26 minutes ago, Rocking Robert said:

Yes they’re really going to miss that guy who lives on 1000 baht a month

Projecting?  There are lots of foreigners with money that a lot of these policies still discourage.  

Edited March 7, 2021 by shdmn

[GinBoy2]

7 hours ago, ricardofel said:

I thought I would live the rest of my life in Thailand until I saw the reality of the country. The pollution & environmental issues, corruption and the education of my young son. Had a beautiful townhouse in HuaHin, sold it and moved to ChiangMai. Bought a beautiful property and house in Saraphi and 26 rai of land in the mountains,  life was good. Decided to leave when my son was 5, Thai wife decided not to leave with us, long story. Was very fortunate to sell the land 2 weeks before we left. Bought a house in California, sold the house in Chiang Mai 7 months later. 

My son has thrived in California in all areas, top student, played all sports for 3 years and then got onto the local swim team.....5 years later and he continues practice 5 days a week. Has been a talented actor since he was 8: theater and movies. Straight A student! America has issues like the repugnant republicans, but life is clean: no pollution to deal with. Cost of living is a little higher but that's part of the trade-off. Organic products are real...not like fake organic in Thailand. So for me....life is good.....and for my son!

I think your story is not unfamiliar to many.

 

We lived in Thailand full time for just over a decade after moving from Singapore, and to be honest I was in love with the place, but as with many things that are bright and shiny the shine wore off.

 

Initially it was, and still is significantly cheaper than living in Singapore, but costs steadily rose over those years and you have to make a heck of a lot of compromises.

 

Our son was in middle school in Singapore when we moved to Thailand and Thai education, even private schools is a <deleted> disaster.

 

After he moved to the US to go to college the game was up, and we followed him, since Mom also wanted to restart her career.

 

Retirement can of course mean many things to different people. After I retired I was fine for a few years doing nothing, but the inability to do anything, even volunteer to teach English at the local schools drove me to intense boredom, I just needed something to do, there are only so many books to read, TV to watch, and I'm not a barfly kinda guy

 

When I got to that stage, everything about the country began to grate on me. The dirt, filth, pollution, endless coups, basic utilities like water and electricity which may or may not work all the time, and coupled with the fact that if you want a western standard of living it just ain't that cheap anymore compared to many places.

 

So we still keep our house in Thailand for a vacation home, but we moved back to the US, close to our son. My wife managed to restart her career and I do a little part time job with an airline.

 

Also I was discovering that as I aged private health insurance was on an exponential curve, and the idea of having to become reliant on some local government hospital in my senior years was most certainly NOT on my to do list!

 

Still like Thailand, but choosing it as my permanent retirement location in retrospect wasn't one of my finest life decisions. 

 

 

[bangon04]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:10 AM, Pilotman said:

and they don't care that you won't. 

Are there any reliable figures about how much retirees have put into building nice houses in the Moo Baan , cars and motorbikes for the "brothers" , hospital bills and vets bills for the sick buffalos, buying seaside bars, child support for the many children, fashion accessories and the myriad of other "investments" into Thai society??  Is it all really insignificant financially?

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Yes, completely insignificant. The only people dreaming it is of any significance are people like Felix from Switzerland (made up name) sitting in his mansion house in the middle of a burning rice field in Surin, wondering what the phuck he did and shaking a walking stick at the wall, "What would ya'll do without me?!"

[Truth Will Set You Free]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:22 PM, rumak said:

Still,  keeping 800k in the bank and paying only 1900 baht ( a bargain) yearly does eliminate the hassles other types of visas present.  

800k is about $27,586 with the current exchange rate. That’s a lot of money that they have now changed that you can not touch for 6 months. 

 

I am looking at the Philippines now. It's only 10,000 USD in their Bank and a income of $800.00 a month. Plus from watching what the new President is doing for the country, it's only a matter of time it will be the place to be. There are many expats there now. 

 

Thailand has lose it Smile. It's all about greed and corruption, and they doing it publicly.  This Pandemic is their curse for all their wrongdoings to people that wants to enjoy retirement. 

 

 

[whaleboneman]

13 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

no thanks, i prefer to buy my own health insurance and the hastle free way of thailand.

and 2000 USD will not buy comfortable life for a couple in costa rica. costa rica is propably the most

expensive place in south america...and not so crime free after all.

Costa Rica certainly isn't the most expensive place in South America as it's not in South America.

[Bohemianfish]

On 3/6/2021 at 5:19 AM, Pilotman said:

Thank you for your post, with which, to a great degree, mirrors my own feelings, bar the wish to take Thai Citizenship, which I would never do, even if I gained the required facility in the language. I like Thailand, I am as happy here as I would be anywhere.  Yes it has its frustrations, but so does every society that I have ever lived in, including in my home country of the UK.   Had I never met my Thai wife, I would not be living here, that is very plain to me. Rather I would have stayed in my home country, as a base to travel the world, as I had done for many years with my job.  I do not feel valued here, or particularly wanted, amused toleration seems about the best it gets from the locals. But I do feel the ambivalence to we expats, friendly enough on the outside, but not that bothered about our difficulties with government,  welfare, friendship, or  involvement in their culture, rather I find a lack of understanding as to why we are here in the first place.  Interestingly, and maybe because of my influence, my Brit/Thai daughter, living in the UK, feels pretty much the same about Thailand as I do. Maybe its a universal feeling for expats and immigrants to any country, as I'm not at all sure that my own feelings towards those that settle in the UK is that much different to what I see here in regard to western expats, ambivalence,  and perhaps that's where the debate naturally takes us.    Ed:  perhaps to add, would I recommend Thailand to anyone for retirement; never in a month of Sundays. 

I don't feel wanted in my home country here in America. No one cares about me except my family. People are rough with most anyone and rarely had a good experience with them. Things are expensive. Being older you are ignored most of the time, questioned if you can hear or comprehend what people say to you. People here just want you for your money, no other interest. Property taxes and utilities are obscenely high and a lot of racial tension and women in general when out and about treat you like some threat and god forbid you walk past someone's children.

 

Didn't really have these feelings while visiting and being in Thailand. When Thai wife is ready to move back, I'll be with her.

 

 

[sekmet]

Has Thailand's xenophobia coincided with mass tourism, or is it the result of different kinds of expats and tourists?

 

Genuinely curious here.

[globalspark]

I was a regular visitor  for 10 years   spending 2 months at a time there  so was considering retirement there.As  time  moved on  I realised what did this country have to offer?  Cost of living is to high if you like   nice red wine and   western  foods. For the matter beer at the bars  has been  creaping up and  lots of  Farang now  sit at the  front of a 7 /11 store drinking.If you want  accommodation  of reasonable standard  you need  $1000 per month. Last trip in Pattaya  which was  about 12 months ago I did some serious looking in Pattaya and the 5000 -7000 baht   apartment is very  poor.

I have been spending more time in Europe prior to Covid  and found Italy Spain Portugal more desirable places to live.  Cost of living would be on part to Thailand.

 If you want to be a bar fly then  Angeles City is the place for you but the visa issue is a nightmare,My advise to go and visit  these countries  and see if it is what you are really looking for as the fun visiting bars each night  eventually changes, old friends stop coming to Thailand,   the  stuffed knee, hip, needs replacement, and you need to go home for those procedures.

 I was coming to Thailand having dental  treatment but  not really worth it now as Dentists in Australia  are only a fraction more. I will continue to  finish my Dental treatment  in Pattaya  but thinking seriously of  having the remaining work done here.

I will still be a visitor of Thailand  but do not see it as a long term retirement destination.

 I could write books  on the subject matter.  Everybody tells you how bad Australia  is  but everybody runs back to the place to  spend 2 years so they can collect their pensions and have free hospital treatments. I worked and paid taxes? Really. 

[MasterBaker]

Visa/Residence, score of 57? i bet those people haven't been in Thailand for more than 30 days

[Kenneth White]

I have been living in Thailand for four years now and six years prior while working and getting my affairs' in order I traveled back and forth from America several times a year to be with my family here. I have only my social security income which my wife and her family live comfortable on. I did have a marriage visa but changed to a retirement visa with some help of a friend of my wife just recently. I have many Thai and farang friend here and find them to be very nice and helpful, only once did encounter a problem with a Thai person but he was drunk...LOL! Okay enough said 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Bohemianfish said:

I don't feel wanted in my home country here in America. No one cares about me except my family. People are rough with most anyone and rarely had a good experience with them. Things are expensive. Being older you are ignored most of the time, questioned if you can hear or comprehend what people say to you. People here just want you for your money, no other interest. Property taxes and utilities are obscenely high and a lot of racial tension and women in general when out and about treat you like some threat and god forbid you walk past someone's children.

 

Didn't really have these feelings while visiting and being in Thailand. When Thai wife is ready to move back, I'll be with her.

 

 

 

I see you don't have many posts here on TV,   but i will not call you a "newbie" because your post

does well in describing why many have left that bastion of fleedom .   

And just to add,  we have a 40 year old female tenant (here in CM)  that has just managed to return to Thailand after going through all the ASQ  stuff.   She can't stand the US  either !

 

BTW:   if Thai wife not ready you can always come first   ????????  

 

[Watchful]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Who cares about rankings like that?

Is anybody here looking at that ranking and planning to move to Costa Rica or Malaysia or any other country which scores better than Thailand just because of such a list?

That is a good point. My guess is the population of "fence sitters" is extremely low. People pretty much know where they want to go in retirement.

 

What articles like this may impact is their financial decisions. That is whether to buy or rent. If people fear they may never be able to sell, they'd be less likely to make that condo investment. I believe articles like this will have a negative influence on the "over built" condo market in Thailand.

[sydneyjed]

It's sad to see the decline when one casts their mind back some 10/15 years ..I think the ruling government has a lot to answer for with a lot more pain to come in the coming year or so!

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[micmichd]

2 hours ago, Bohemianfish said:

I don't feel wanted in my home country here in America. No one cares about me except my family. People are rough with most anyone and rarely had a good experience with them. Things are expensive. Being older you are ignored most of the time, questioned if you can hear or comprehend what people say to you. People here just want you for your money, no other interest. Property taxes and utilities are obscenely high and a lot of racial tension and women in general when out and about treat you like some threat and god forbid you walk past someone's children.

 

Didn't really have these feelings while visiting and being in Thailand. When Thai wife is ready to move back, I'll be with her.

 

 

I'm fortunately a German orphan with no family in the West but a family in Thailand. So I'll stay here. 

[Moonlover]

14 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What a strange and verbose way you have of asking a simple question.

 

Visa rule tightening is one example. When I first arrived, people were living forever on tourist visas, now they are no longer free to do so. There are other examples, too numerous to list, some of them you might agree with, other not. 

Those that were living here forever on tourist visas were flouting the rules. It isn't the rules that have changed, it's the correct enforcement of those rules that have. And rightly so IMO. If you want to come and live in Thailand, do it properly.

[Bohemianfish]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

 

I see you don't have many posts here on TV,   but i will not call you a "newbie" because your post

does well in describing why many have left that bastion of fleedom .   

And just to add,  we have a 40 year old female tenant (here in CM)  that has just managed to return to Thailand after going through all the ASQ  stuff.   She can't stand the US  either !

 

BTW:   if Thai wife not ready you can always come first   ????????  

 

I had a different Thaivisa account several years ago and had closed it. Back again. I've been to Thailand many times and the rose colored glasses came off with each visit. It's certainly not perfect, but we are ready to move from our current residence, anyway, due to the cold and wet weather much of the year. The USA is great in many ways. Much to love about the great outdoors, but certainly the downsides.

 

 

Anyway, we are looking at the Chiang Mai area as it appears to have a nice international feel like we have in the Seattle area. No so much running to Thailand, but to warmer weather throughout the year, a change of scenery, and a new adventure for us to do things in SE Asia. It's incidental, to some degree, that she is from Thailand. And we like to stay home more and more and like gardening and visiting temples and flower and plant festivals.

 

My original comment was to counter the negative aspects expressed about Thailand when there's enough to dislike in our home countries. Any place will have its good and bad, so you pick your poison. There is certainly a lot to like about Thailand and we have a good time when we visit each year.

 

Would love to go to Thailand first, but wife says it would not be safe for me, lol.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bohemianfish
word correction.

[doctormann]

18 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Those that were living here forever on tourist visas were flouting the rules. It isn't the rules that have changed, it's the correct enforcement of those rules that have. And rightly so IMO. If you want to come and live in Thailand, do it properly.

Well, some of us did do it properly and entered Thailand on an non-O-A visa which, in 2004, was supposed to be the preferred method if you wanted to retire here.  It never was called a 'retirement visa' bu that is what it was intended to be.  We were supposed to be able to extend the permission to stay that this type of visa conferred, annually, provided that we met the financial requirements.

 

This worked very well until someone decided that it would be a nice little earner if retirees were made to take out a scam insurance policy as a condition of getting an extension.  This scam has been widely covered on this forum so we don't need to go  into it here.  The crux of the matter though is that it is very difficult and expensive for anyone over the age of 75 to obtain such an insurance.  The requirement can be waived, for a consideration, but this means using an agent and is expensive.

 

The really silly thing is that extending for retirement from an original non-O visa does not require the insurance, even though the other requirements are exactly the same!

 

 

 

[robertson468]

I think that over the years Thailand has become quite complacent about long and short term visitors due to the millions of people who come for both long term holidays and retirement.  The Government no longer makes an effort to make visitors welcome and a combination of an unstable and at times illogical political scene and the two tier pricing system makes people a little uncomfortable, not to mention the rampant coruption that is robbing the Country blind.  I have lived here now for nearly 16 years, have a lovely educated Thai Wife who is kindness itself and I am very lucky, but I must admit despite the lovely warm weather, two successful businesses, I am beginning to wonder if it is time to find pastures new?  Maybe Portugal or Costa Rica might be the next solution.

[Lacessit]

A retirement index that does not include the affordability of sex has little relevance for many retirees.

[Enzian]

Expanding on what doctormann just said, it's fine to say follow the rules, but if the government doesn't follow its own rules, or if the rules are genuinely arbitrary, then no one has respect for the rule of law. I keep over 800K baht in a bank here but my good friend who doesn't have a pot to <deleted> in let alone 800K, just scrapes together money for an agent once a year and gets the same Non-O visa that I have. To my knowledge there is nothing in the "rules" that provides for this. Except the unwritten rule that corruption is the rule.