Warning to expats: Surgery of any kind in Thailand can come with a hefty price tag

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, cobra said:

Unfortunately insurance is one of those things which indirectly provide no tangible benefit, albeit peace of mind.

It's a gambling game on both sides.

IMHO health care in Thailand is still very reasonable compared to the west and usually of satisfactory quality.  
Saying you're uninsurable at a certain age is a bit of a misnomer.

There is always some entity that will insure you, but the price will reflect the risk, and may be beyond what one can pay.

Hence when saving for retirement, keep in mind medical coverage, knowing it will take up a large portion of your budget.

We all have our own circumstances, part of the puzzle can be to have a stepped plan, my Thai son knows to take me first to Rajavej hospital here in CM, only 2 km from family house, then after 24/48 hrs if further hospitalization is required he will transfer / ambulance take me to Nakorn Ping hospital, (big gov't hospital in CM) where I've been before, excellent doctors and specialists, good nursing, plenty of English. However if the problem relates to any of my war veterans recognized disability items straight to McCormick hospital who will direct bill the DVA in Australia.

[simon43]

It won't help the many on this forum who are too old or too ill to obtain decent private medical insurance.  These kinds of insurance can provide peace of mind for a reasonable cost if:

1 - You take out cover at a younger age BEFORE you get sick with high blood pressure, diabetes etc etc. Your premiums will be reasonable and will only increase in line with others in that same age group.

2 - You choose an expat policy which covers you for life, (ie they can't kick you off the policy when you reach say 70 or 80 years old)

3 - You choose a policy which can't kick you out if you make a claim on that policy, and can't increase your premium payments if you make claims.

There are various such policies which will life-cover of say $1 million per year, for a reasonable premium.  I pay about $205 each month for this level of cover at aged 62 years old, with no exclusions. That's because I took out cover BEFORE I got sick (BTW, I still don't have any age-related illnesses, because I look after my health....).

I look on my medical cover kin to fire insurance on my house.  I have peace of mind and hope I never have to claim on it ????

 

So my advice is - don't wait until you have high BP - you'll find it difficult/expensive to get decent medical insurance.  Oh, if you already have high BP, maybe ask yourself why - it's rarely an inherited condition, more to do with your unhealthy lifestyle!

 

[scorecard]

16 minutes ago, simon43 said:

It won't help the many on this forum who are too old or too ill to obtain decent private medical insurance.  These kinds of insurance can provide peace of mind for a reasonable cost if:

1 - You take out cover at a younger age BEFORE you get sick with high blood pressure, diabetes etc etc. Your premiums will be reasonable and will only increase in line with others in that same age group.

2 - You choose an expat policy which covers you for life, (ie they can't kick you off the policy when you reach say 70 or 80 years old)

3 - You choose a policy which can't kick you out if you make a claim on that policy, and can't increase your premium payments if you make claims.

There are various such policies which will life-cover of say $1 million per year, for a reasonable premium.  I pay about $205 each month for this level of cover at aged 62 years old, with no exclusions. That's beacuse I took out cover BEFORE I got sick (BTW, I still don't have any age-related illnesses, because I look after my health....).

I look on my medical cover kin to fire insurance on my house.  I have peace of mind and hope I never have to claim on it ????

 

So my advice is - don't wait until you have high BP - you'll find it difficult/expensive to get decent medical insurance.  Oh, if you already have high BP, maybe ask yourself why - it's are that it's heredity, more to do with your unhealthy lifestyle!

 

How true, changes in lifestyle can reduce high BP for many folks, easy to google some details.

And nowadays easy and inexpensive to buy easy to use BP measurement devices to use at home. 

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Really? I can go back to Australia until February 2025 and still avail myself of the Medicare system, plus reinstate my private health cover within 90 days of arrival.

I went back to Australia 1.5 years ago after 3 decades of never using my Medicare card. (and I lost the card).

I went to a joint Centrelink/Medicare office and they submitted a request for a replacement card and a new number. (They didn't ask any questions about reason for being away from Australia or anything similar.)

A few seconds after submitting the request later the Centrelink lady said 'all approved and your fully covered from right now, a new card will come to your home in about 7 days and I'm printing a letter for you to carry/use if needed until you get your new card'. 

[Curt1591]

19 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

He banged his knee and was taken to hospital. The Xray at the first hospital was bad news - it was not a dislocation but a break of the patella. 

He was transferred to a specialist at another hospital in the area and was soon facing costs of 360,000 baht as screws needed to be inserted.

And he would need to rest up for anywhere between 3 and six months.

The average cost of knee surgery in the States is over $20K. He paid just about half that. 

And now that 3~6 months will cost some more - he will require rehab, not "rest". 

[meechai]

No actually your reading it wrong........It was 300k baht out of his pocket if he had it done in Thailand

It was free in the USA no matter what the US charges Medicare ????

17 hours ago, malibukid said:

i needed surgery and was quoted 300K at Bumagrad.  flew home to the States.  85,000.00 and Medicare picked up the tab.

15 hours ago, oobar said:

Wow, so the same surgery in the States cost more than eight times what it cost at Bumrungrad.

[meechai]

16 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Most I know have no insurance. And too many actually think they are self insured.  What is that exactly?  Having 100,000 b in the bank? Fools thinking. How much is a major accident or heart issue going to cost? Start at 3 million b then up and you may actually consider it.

 

This is something that has not gone unnoticed by Thailand either....The fact that most expats are in reality skint & of course this is also why so many live in Thailand where cost of food & shelter is lower than their home country.

But....ever since that whole Graham & Pie deal where he had a heart problem & needed to go fund me etc...then died...Thailand has more & more made mention like this article does...Even though this article was a Thai they point out to expats..."Look medical costs $$$"

Yes so many claim..."but I self insure" ... but that is likely far below true costs of a major emergency. They always use some silly normal health checkup as a yardstick of how cheap Thai medical care is. Try show up with a snapped femur or a head injury after a scooter crash or heart attack etc & then see what reality tastes like.

I think going forward Thailand Immigration will surely require some form of Thai Health insurance policy in the amount of 1-3 million baht coverage period

Problem of course if for now most Thai Insurance companies drop anyone over 72 but......I'm sure with a enforced policy required it will be available...& of course not affordable for most expats in Thailand

Anyone who does not see this coming has not been paying attention. ????

 

 

 

[Pique Dard]

21 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

A cautionary tale about the cost of medical treatment should act as a warning to expats and other visitors in Thailand.

yet the patient who paid  360,000.00 baht was a thai citizen not an expat. how comes?

[Peterw42]

19 hours ago, Wiggy said:

Looks like skateboarding to me.

There is a difference, the trucks rotate on a 3rd axis that traditional skateboards don't have, the motion and feel is more like surfing

[dcnx]

20 hours ago, aussie11950 said:

Its called "skate boarding" in Australia.
Sorry for his pain

No, no, the Thais have invented putting 4 wheels on a slab of wood and riding it on concrete, like a surfboard. 

[dcnx]

3 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

The average cost of knee surgery in the States is over $20K. He paid just about half that. 

And there’s a 50/50 chance he got what he paid for. 

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

????

 

So my advice is - don't wait until you have high BP - you'll find it difficult/expensive to get decent medical insurance.  Oh, if you already have high BP, maybe ask yourself why - it's rarely an inherited condition, more to do with your unhealthy lifestyle!

 

I have inherited high BP, controlled with medication. I daresay I live a much healthier lifestyle than my parents ever did.

I could probably get insurance, but paying for it would mean living in a 2000 baht/month room and eating Mama noodles for the rest of my life. That's not living, just an existence.

[spidermike007]

This is a very relative topic. I come from the US. Highest medical costs in the world, and not necessarily the best care. For instance. A good friend of mine got in a bad motorcycle accident on Samui, some time ago. He almost lost his leg. He got his first of 11 operations at Bangkok Hospital Samui. It costs him over a million baht. They wanted to do a second procedure. They quoted him 1.4 million baht. He decided to transfer to Bangkok. He was quoted 460,000 baht for the same procedure, at a top private hospital there. The surgeon told him that he worked at a public hospital too, and could do the same operation there, for alot less money. He told him he would get him a quote. In the interim, my friend called a friend in San Diego, who is an orthopedic surgeon. Since my friend is a retired chiropractor, who knew all the terminology and anatomy, and explained what he needed, and asked for the best price. His friend called him back, and quoted him $960,000, with cash discounts! The local surgeon got back to him, and told him he could do it for 46,000 baht. He transferred, and they did all the rest of his procedures. So, 1.4 million at Bangkok Hospital, 460,000 at the other private hospital in Bangkok (I think it was Vejthani Hospital), and 46,000 at the public hospital, with an excellent surgeon, vs. 32,000,000 baht in the US. Again, no complaints from this peanut gallery.

 

If you are not insured, and tight on funds, use a public hospital here. Do some research, as they are not all comparable. But, some are very good, and the costs can be dramatically lower than the private hospitals. Use the private hospitals if you are insured, or cost is not paramount. They can be excellent. But, if cost is a concern, use your head. 

[Boomer6969]

23 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Just had a Ultrasound, MRI and biopsy, along with medication to treat an infection from the biopsy......all in must have cost around 200k.

Yep that's the going rate. Just filled out a claim for my routine PCA Active Surveillance (OPD) acts: 47444.60... Medical Insurance is an absolute "Must have". I have been in my plan since 1991, and hopefully stay there until I die.

[berrec]

20 hours ago, KannikaP said:

 

Brought back some great memories of the 60's and still recall all the bumps and bruises from skateboard mishaps, 

[Curt1591]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

And there’s a 50/50 chance he got what he paid for. 

Is this an assumption or do you actually have experience with Thai medicine?

Personally, I have had much better experiences here in Thailand compared to what I had in the States. 

 

[HashBrownHarry]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:19 AM, bdenner said:

At 71 I'm virtually uninsurable now but in saying that I have been self insured (when it comes to health) all my life.

Had a domestic accident 2 months ago, splintered a section of my knee cap and tissue damage to my lower leg and foot. In short 6 days in the BKK Hospital Udon which included surgery.

Thus far 140K Baht (AUD $6000) = absolutely no problem. I'm so far in front of the game just looking at the ridiculous premiums I would have paid over the years.

See how far in front you are if you're ever unfortunate enough to have to spend any significant days in ICU.

Guy i knew paid 150K per night!!!

[Lingba]

even more confusion now

[HashBrownHarry]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:36 AM, bdenner said:

My (pre/post Covid) strategy for that situation is to get stabilized and onto the 1st available flight to my home country.

What if you're unable to travel?

 

Bi bi life savings

[HashBrownHarry]

On 3/19/2021 at 5:36 AM, bdenner said:

My (pre/post Covid) strategy for that situation is to get stabilized and onto the 1st available flight to my home country.

What if you're unable to travel?

 

Bi bi life savings

[Ventenio]

Never had insurance.  I rock climb, skydive, everything.......

gofundme is access to trillions of baht...

especially if you are trying to save kittens from a volcano...

[KarenBravo]

23 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Self insured = Uninsured.

Don't know why this is attracting "sad" emoticons.

It's obvious, logical and self explanatory.

[bdenner]

1 hour ago, HashBrownHarry said:

What if you're unable to travel?

 

Bi bi life savings

You seem to have quoted me a number of times obviously not liking my philosophy on this topic.

It's horses for coarses, I have made my bed and VERY comfortable in it, thank you for your concern about my financial well being.

[Curt1591]

I'm really touched by some of the members" concern.

Or, is it that they want reassurance?

 

[bdenner]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

Don't know why this is attracting "sad" emoticons.

It's obvious, logical and self explanatory.

No it is not in any way, shape or form!

You have got it wrong. A self insured person has funds set a side to cover the contingencies that should have been covered by an insurance policy (if you can bypass the fine print). When it comes to health it dosen't take long to build up up a substancial buffer.

In saying that I have no intention to travel to the USA!

[from the home of CC]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:25 PM, Surelynot said:

Just had a Ultrasound, MRI and biopsy, along with medication to treat an infection from the biopsy......all in must have cost around 200k.

private hospital?

[from the home of CC]

I'd love to see the bill if a expat caught covid and had to spend over 2 months in a coma in  a ICU like the Thai official did. IMO your insurance companies would be fighting endlessly not to pay this tab..

[KarenBravo]

22 minutes ago, bdenner said:

No it is not in any way, shape or form!

You have got it wrong. A self insured person has funds set a side to cover the contingencies that should have been covered by an insurance policy (if you can bypass the fine print). When it comes to health it dosen't take long to build up up a substancial buffer.

In saying that I have no intention to travel to the USA!

You are not insured. 

You have enough money to not need insurance. That is not being self insured.

You can't just make up your own definitions.......

From the dictionary:-

(plural the insured)

(law) the person who has made an agreement with an insurance company and who receives money if, for example, they are ill or if they lose or damage something

[kingofthemountain]

3 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

You are not insured. 

You have enough money to not need insurance. That is not being self insured.

You can't just make up your own definitions.......

From the dictionary:-

(plural the insured)

(law) the person who has made an agreement with an insurance company and who receives money if, for example, they are ill or if they lose or damage something

imo you are a little bit anal playing on the words here

i think everyone here know an understand the difference between

being insured (With an insurance company) or being self insured (With your own funds)

[KarenBravo]

6 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

imo you are a little bit anal playing on the words here

i think everyone here know an understand the difference between

being insured (With an insurance company) or being self insured (With your own funds)

If you own your own insurance company and take out insurance, then you are self insured.

You want to argue? Argue with the publishers of the dictionary.

If you consider that you are "self-insured" and your disease / surgeries exceed what you have saved, do you go from self insured to uninsured?

I have insurance which costs me 60k+ (I'm 63) which gives me cover of 50 million Baht per year. I will never be wiped out financially. Peace of mind is priceless.