High Expectations Or What !

[thequietman]

Won't say the office, but their expectations from me are incredibly high and I shouldn't have to meet them.

Recently applied for my extension (marriage) and this particular office got a new boss.

One requirement was for me to bring in my old passport from 4 years ago to show the new boss. Apparently, he didn't trust the staff that work there and wanted to see why they transferred over my extension to a new passport.

Now, what would be the situation if I had discarded that passport? Afterall, I don't need it and it is no longer a legal doc. When I asked where they put all the copies that they made me do, when the extension was transferred over, I got a blank expression.

I have had 3 extensions since that passport with no issues and now this request. Clearly, they keep no records of anything that was given to them before. Imagine the new boss will be demanding fees from farrang who can't produce their passports from years ago. When will it stop!  ????

Edited March 21, 2021 by thequietman

[DrJack54]

Pointless without naming the immigration office

[BigStar]

I doubt they could make that requirement stick if you'd just told them you'd thrown it away years ago. Then there's always the dog ate it "lost passport" police report.

But you never throw away old passports or bank books, the latter of which I have quite a collection; and one old bank book did come in handy once. Yeah, always keep the trail when you're living in a foreign country. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe they hoped that you didn't have the old passport anymore. And because they are nice people they would help you to solve this problem - for a fee of course. ;) 

[Wiggy]

Slightly off topic, but when I applied for permanent residency last year they wanted all my old passports since first coming to Thailand, plus my current one. For me this was four passports in total. Apparently I couldn't have applied without them, so it was lucky I kept them as there is nothing anywhere to say that you should, as far as I know. 

[Guderian]

21 hours ago, thequietman said:

When I asked where they put all the copies that they made me do

 

Yes, that's a question many people have asked over the years. Personally, I think the reason we have so much air pollution nowadays is that Immigration have been having a clean-out and are burning all the old photocopies, lol.

[4MyEgo]

22 hours ago, thequietman said:

Imagine the new boss will be demanding fees from farrang who can't produce their passports from years ago.

 

While I can appreciate your surprise to his request and frustrations, I think it best not speculate as the reason and just comply if you have the old one, noting that it is best that old passports are kept for safe keeping for unexpected times like this, too easy really, I have 2 old ones sitting in the safe, and I always expect Immigration to throw in a curl ball when applying for my marriage extension, it's expected, I always get one, every single marriage extension, but being as organised as I am, I always have a spare case with heaps of goodies in there in case they ask.

 

I will now include my old passports (2) in the case I take with me, thanks, as I am not doing a 3 hour return trip to please these paper shuffling wannabe's. 

 

22 hours ago, thequietman said:

When will it stop!

 

Did it start, I doubt it, and who knows maybe the new boss is checking on his staff to see that they are not accepting money under the table for favours of not sighting passports or deposits etc etc, and yes, maybe he is just making sure his staff know that they mustn't cut him out, or something like that, or he wants a corruptionless office, possibly to some of our disbelief. 

[ttkeric]

If I may add to this topic the fact that keeping your old passports handy while you're here is actually a good idea. 

 

Reason being you never know if you have an encounter like OP here, or if you had to transfer your mobile plan, recall a previous incident, renew some membership of whatever and then the zinger is that on their record you've registered with a passport from many moons ago. 

 

I was caught up once (not immigration related) but thankfully I basically chucked the old ones into the deep recesses of my filing cabinet, so they were there. 

[Aforek]

23 hours ago, BigStar said:

...

But you never throw away old passports or bank books, the latter of which I have quite a collection; and one old bank book did come in handy once. Yeah, always keep the trail when you're living in a foreign country. 

True, always keep old passports and bankbooks, it can be useful, as here...

in my I.O, they keep at least the year before, because this year, they saw that I used  the same picture than last year, so they asked  me to come with an other ( recent ) one  

[Surelynot]

58 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

While I can appreciate your surprise to his request and frustrations, I think it best not speculate as the reason and just comply if you have the old one, noting that it is best that old passports are kept for safe keeping for unexpected times like this, too easy really, I have 2 old ones sitting in the safe, and I always expect Immigration to throw in a curl ball when applying for my marriage extension, it's expected, I always get one, every single marriage extension, but being as organised as I am, I always have a spare case with heaps of goodies in there in case they ask.

 

I will now include my old passports (2) in the case I take with me, thanks, as I am not doing a 3 hour return trip to please these paper shuffling wannabe's. 

 

 

Did it start, I doubt it, and who knows maybe the new boss is checking on his staff to see that they are not accepting money under the table for favours of not sighting passports or deposits etc etc, and yes, maybe he is just making sure his staff know that they mustn't cut him out, or something like that, or he wants a corruptionless office, possibly to some of our disbelief. 

Don't you just hate carefully considered, well structure, intelligent responses.

[ChrisKC]

You have a point. I have kept one old passport, the previous one, that to be fair has ten years worth of salient information in it. If I add the five years of my current passport, that is fifteen consecutive years of information. Do they really want more?

 

Actually, I don't keep mine because I think I will ever need it but the thing is so small, it hardly takes up any space. I see no harm in keeping it though as others have said, they believe there is no edict either way!

 

[4MyEgo]

16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Don't you just hate carefully considered, well structure, intelligent responses.

 

I must try to understand why it is so hard for some to digest, carefully considered, well structured, intelligent responses, suffice to say, all I can say to those having trouble digesting what we intellects post, is to move on as it can turn out to be brain fog ???? ???? 

[thequietman]

49 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Don't you just hate carefully considered, well structure, intelligent responses.

Yes ????

[thequietman]

49 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

Do they really want more?

Apparently so. ????

[Surasak]

I complained to the bank that their APP wasn't working. It was pointed out that it required my passport number used to open the account. Had I not kept the original, things could have been awkward. 

Just as an aside, your passport is government property and therefore should not be discarded or destroyed. I have passports from the 1960s. The first one when replaced I burnt as I thought it was of no further use. When I applied for a new one a year later, I was asked  for details of the old one. The passport office lady went ape when I said I had burnt it. I had a police visit to take a statement and was cautioned. I was lucky I didn't get a criminal record.

Appreciate that was a long time ago and things may have changed. However, I keep my old passports.

[scorecard]

'Where's the copies of docs submitted before'.

 

Like many gov't departments/offices and companies everywhere, the staff strictly follow the procedure and give no thought whatever to matters like 'we've had a copy of this document before'.

 

A long way to go. 

 

 

[gamini]

Just now, Wiggy said:

Slightly off topic, but when I applied for permanent residency last year they wanted all my old passports since first coming to Thailand, plus my current one. For me this was four passports in total. Apparently I couldn't have applied without them, so it was lucky I kept them as there is nothing anywhere to say that you should, as far as I know. 

Very reasonable request from immigration, since you would have to been at least three years on a retirement Visa before you can apply for permanent residence. So naturally they would want to see your old passports.

[spidermike007]

I use the marriage visa, and they inevitably like to throw in something, to increase the difficulty of the process. Frankly, I think at least some of this comes from the rather extreme level of xenophobia and the toxic racism of the army. It filters down throughout the government. I do not think they want us here. And making these procedures difficult is one way of expressing that. 

 

Recently returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

Fortunately, I feel very little of that sentiment from the non governmental Thai people. 

 

I still love it here. But, if I had the required cash, I would likely spend 6 months a year in Turkey or Spain, a few months traveling, a month in the US (family and work), and two months a year here. 

 

I really despise the army and their administration. But, I guess that much is obvious! 

Edited March 22, 2021 by spidermike007

[KKr]

during my 35 years or so abroad, when renewing passports the embassy used to not habitually return the old one;

so I had/have to ask to get the old passport made invalid and returned to me,

so actually one might get caught off guard on this topic.

 

pages with valid residence related visa and extensions they would, on request, not punch / clip or cut off corners.

 

[KKr]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I use the marriage visa, and they inevitably like to throw in something, to increase the difficulty of the process. Frankly, I think at least some of this comes from the rather extreme level of xenophobia and the toxic racism of the army. It filters down throughout the government. I do not think they want us here. And making these procedures difficult is one way of expressing that. 

 

Recently returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

Fortunately, I feel very little of that sentiment from the non governmental Thai people. 

 

I still love it here. But, if I had the required cash, I would likely spend 6 months a year in Turkey or Spain, a few months traveling, a month in the US (family and work), and two months a year here. 

 

I really despise the army and their administration. But, I guess that much is obvious! 

getting past the people that can say NO because of their fear to make a possible mistake and face questions or even repercussions, or in case of business the recalcitrant wannabees aspiring for executive power that want to be able to say “I told you so” to the superiors in case a decision turns out different than anticipated,  is the big challenge in sales, business and apparently in some cases Immigration.

Guess I am lucky in the North, so far supportive and been given time to add whatever is necessary

( and to replace selfies with photos taken by someone else and take a photo in the bedroom but not on the bed... ???? )

[NoshowJones]

On 3/21/2021 at 11:30 AM, DrJack54 said:

Pointless without naming the immigration office

Surely if the IO was named, it would not contravene the defamation laws, would it?

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I use the marriage visa, and they inevitably like to throw in something, to increase the difficulty of the process. Frankly, I think at least some of this comes from the rather extreme level of xenophobia and the toxic racism of the army. It filters down throughout the government. I do not think they want us here. And making these procedures difficult is one way of expressing that. 

 

Recently returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

Fortunately, I feel very little of that sentiment from the non governmental Thai people. 

 

I still love it here. But, if I had the required cash, I would likely spend 6 months a year in Turkey or Spain, a few months traveling, a month in the US (family and work), and two months a year here. 

 

I really despise the army and their administration. But, I guess that much is obvious! 

Excellent post, I have a very good friend who says almost practically the same things as you. Good for you not being afraid to stand up to these hostile IOs, unlike a lot of Thaivisa posters who are obvious members of the "scared of your own shadow" brigade.

I have also stood up to these people on two occasions over the years, and came off best both times.

Edited March 22, 2021 by possum1931

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog.

Took me about 10 minutes.

The longest item in the process was the 30 minute wait to see the IO.

Same office, Chiang Mai.

Edited March 22, 2021 by BritManToo

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Took me about 10 minutes.

The longest item in the process was the 30 minute wait to see the IO.

I only took about 2 minutes each time and the cases were solved to my satisfaction.