Visa extension fraudsters: Further details emerge as Thai police go after Russian retirees who used service

[Caldera]

The biggest crime here is that Thai immigration didn't get their cut, unforgivable indeed. Had they paid a somewhat higher amount to a Thai agent who knows how to keep immigration happy, on the other hand...

[Bradmeister]

If the immigration office continues to use Visas and Visa Extentions instesd of just issuing bonefides for residents. 

 

The Schemes and scams will continue to breed people shemeing and scamming them. 

 

Action/Re Action. 

[judokrab]

12 hours ago, petermik said:

I wonder if it were a Thai agent would they then seek out all who had used their services....nah no chance.... too much loss in "pocket money" to the folks in Immigration here...

They have done that. Someone on a marriage extension was deported and backlisted after using an agent to obtain a visa with having the required financials. That agent obviously could not keep up payments, and they went after all his clients.
 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

Same here. It also saved me the £52 embassy fee. I don't understand why you had to go to Bangkok though. I did everything by post, in fact, if I remember correctly, the BE refused to issue the letters in person. I also paid by cc.

 

 

One reason I went in person is that I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet and it was a good chance to stock up on condiments and stuff that I couldn't get up here or online.

 

I don't have a cc anymore just a bank ATM/debit card which the embassy refused to accept.

[impulse]

15 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Yes, the UK embassy stopped doing the letters, because they were being required by Thai Authorities to validate the contents of the documentation that was being provided (not just view and accept), and under the EU Data Protection Act, they are unable to do so.

 

Sure they could.  All they need to do is ask to see a bank statement (or other proof) as a condition of getting the document stamped.  No bank statement or other proof, no stamp.   Strictly voluntary so how would that violate any data protection laws?

 

With a bank statement (or other proof), in and out in 10 minutes.   Hardly a manpower drain. 

 

If they really wanted to dot some I's and cross some T's, make all applicants sign away permission to validate the bank (or other) data and check one or two a week, under threat of perjury.  That'd put the fear of God into most expats, knowing they'll be checking at random and prosecuting perjury.

Edited March 23, 2021 by impulse

[steve187]

17 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

I'm seriously reconsidering my options! Perhaps a crackdown is looming?

I was offered a visa solution a couple of weeks ago when I got my last covid ext (well, technically they spoke to my fiance) direct from the IO. 15 months 55k

silly money

[Andycoops]

20 hours ago, smedly said:

they were faking the bank statements to get an embassy letter - somewhat different but just as dodgy 

But obviously the Russian embassy had no way of verifying the information was correct, just as the British Embassy couldn't and therefore had to cease issuing income letters.

Let's hope the same applies to Ivan and Co or will double standards apply again.

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Sure they could.  All they need to do is ask to see a bank statement (or other proof) as a condition of getting the document stamped.  No bank statement or other proof, no stamp. 

That was exactly what the UK Embassy were doing, what they were told by Thailand was to verify that the contents of the offered proof, were factual.

[foreverlomsak]

My informants tell me that a good agent in Pattaya will charge in the order of 12-15K, if you meet the criteria and you might have to attend Immigration to have your photo taken. A 40k difference will go a long way to paying for a 2-3 day holiday there.

Edited March 24, 2021 by foreverlomsak
incorrect allocation of original poster

[smedly]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

But obviously the Russian embassy had no way of verifying the information was correct, just as the British Embassy couldn't and therefore had to cease issuing income letters.

That was a choice by the UK and US Embassies when they were asked if they actually verified or could verify the information, seems that the Russian Embassy thought they could or said they did when in actual fact they weren't and couldn't, these Russians using this service were not actually defrauding Thai Immigration - they were defrauding their own Embassy who in turn inadvertently were defrauding Thai immigration simply because they didn't actually check or couldn't check which is why the UK and US (and others) withdrew from the scheme, I would now expect the Russian Embassy to follow.

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

My informants tell me that a good agent in Pattaya will charge in the order of 12-15K, if you meet the criteria

what criteria ?

 

people use agents because they don't meet the criteria, they basically pay a bribe to get around the rules - they do not have the said required funds in the bank or meet the income requirements, why do you think they are paying 12-15k baht ?  

[tlcwaterfall]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

what criteria ?

 

people use agents because they don't meet the criteria, they basically pay a bribe to get around the rules - they do not have the said required funds in the bank or meet the income requirements, why do you think they are paying 12-15k baht ?  

Agree with you.  But there are exceptions to this.  Friends of mine who do have the money in the bank use an agent to avoid the time and paperwork and hassle of going to an immigration office.

[foreverlomsak]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

what criteria ?

I know quite a few that meet all the requirements, but still pay an agent to avoid having to deal with Immigration due to bad experiences in personal visits.

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, tlcwaterfall said:

Agree with you.  But there are exceptions to this.  Friends of mine who do have the money in the bank use an agent to avoid the time and paperwork and hassle of going to an immigration office.

yes and the fee is 2k baht

[Enzian]

48 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

I know quite a few that meet all the requirements, but still pay an agent to avoid having to deal with Immigration due to bad experiences in personal visits.

I might think to hire a helper/translator for the day to facilitate language problems and miscommunications. But I don't have to because I always show up at Chaeng Wattana with the current (Thai of course) girlfriend. Makes all the difference, has always resulted in success. I have the money in the bank and all, it's just that weird questions can sometimes arise. And I think the Immigration ladies (they are 80 or 90 % ladies) are less likely to be difficult with a polite-and persistent-Thai female respectably dressed.

[couchpotato]

7 minutes ago, Enzian said:

I might think to hire a helper/translator for the day to facilitate language problems and miscommunications. But I don't have to because I always show up at Chaeng Wattana with the current (Thai of course) girlfriend. Makes all the difference, has always resulted in success. I have the money in the bank and all, it's just that weird questions can sometimes arise. And I think the Immigration ladies (they are 80 or 90 % ladies) are less likely to be difficult with a polite-and persistent-Thai female respectably dressed.

A translator for immigration.. weird.

[polpott]

11 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

A translator for immigration.. weird.

I always take the wife and let her do the talking. The process is always straightforward and quick. However, I'm not sure that its due to her language skills or the fact that she's the nearest thing to a Rottweiler that you can take into immigration.

[Pattaya Spotter]

Maybe a lot of nervous expats in Pattaya this morning...amazing some people still use these dodgy services to stay in Thailand. 

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

yes and the fee is 2k baht

Immigration fee is 1,900 Baht, what agent is going to assemble and complete all the paperwork for you and then visit the Immigration Office for 100 Baht.

[smedly]

16 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Immigration fee is 1,900 Baht, what agent is going to assemble and complete all the paperwork for you and then visit the Immigration Office for 100 Baht.

I said the fee was 2k baht, you still need to pay immigration BT1900

[Pedrogaz]

I suppose they have to protect the income of the agents and the I/Os who depend on subsidies.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

I said the fee was 2k baht, you still need to pay immigration BT1900

Where do I find him/her, contact details please, the lowest I've ever heard of being paid is 8,000 Baht.

[billd766]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Sure they could.  All they need to do is ask to see a bank statement (or other proof) as a condition of getting the document stamped.  No bank statement or other proof, no stamp.   Strictly voluntary so how would that violate any data protection laws?

 

With a bank statement (or other proof), in and out in 10 minutes.   Hardly a manpower drain. 

 

If they really wanted to dot some I's and cross some T's, make all applicants sign away permission to validate the bank (or other) data and check one or two a week, under threat of perjury.  That'd put the fear of God into most expats, knowing they'll be checking at random and prosecuting perjury.

I have 3 pensions and I got a letter from each of them saying exactly how much I was paid and they were happy with that.

 

They were more than welcome to check on me if they wished, but they never did.

[foreverlomsak]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

I think that in the end the UK embassy did me a favour by stopping it. I no longer go to BKK, spend 2 nights in a hotel and make 2 visits to the embassy, nor do I have the hassle of going to the Thai Post Office to get a money order.

 

I just get my pension providers to send or email me a letter, I keep a short version of my Wise/BBK transfers and the Immigration office in Kamphaeng Phet are happy with that part of the paperwork.

 

I do it all myself without an agent and at 76 I have the time to spare to do it that way.

Immigration do not insist on a Thai Bank ownership letter and annual statements of deposits

[John Drake]

20 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Immigration do not insist on a Thai Bank ownership letter and annual statements of deposits

 

1. Application form
2. Copy of applicant’s passport
3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or
4. Account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook
5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4   https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1890

[mark131v]

Low hanging fruit and foreign to boot, win, win for the government department laughingly described as Police!!! 

Edited March 24, 2021 by mark131v

[mosan]

On 3/23/2021 at 11:41 AM, KarenBravo said:

 

It says what you have to show immigration which is 800k. I know you can go down to 400k after three months of getting the extension, but, the next time you visit immigration is for your next renewal, which means you have to show again 800k.

Immigration will check to make sure that you didn't go below the 400k for the designated seven months during the renewal process.

If it is the first renewal, then there would be no 400k to check.

Therefore, my post is factually correct and the news article isn't.

I hate to be picky, but you forced my hand...renewal, by it's very definition means "the 2nd time"...so what you just said is not correct. And, I agree that your post was somewhat correct, but just like the article, seems like you both left out the other ways to qualify showing 800K - meaning the 65K per month method or a certification/affidavit letter from certain countries. 

 

Come to think of it, I do like to nit-pick????  

[billd766]

4 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Immigration do not insist on a Thai Bank ownership letter and annual statements of deposits

I do my marriage extension using the bank letter and monthly income.

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, polpott said:

I have already explained why the British embassy chose to go down the route that they did.

 

You mean?

 

On 3/23/2021 at 3:22 PM, polpott said:

It was a blatant lie by the UK embassy who stopped the letters because they were moving to a smaller embassy and wanted to downsize Thai staff numbers.

 

That's rubbish.

 

 

23 hours ago, polpott said:

I don't understand why you had to go to Bangkok though. I did everything by post, in fact, if I remember correctly, the BE refused to issue the letters in person. I also paid by cc.

 

The British Embassy ORIGINALLY issued income letters as part of their walk-in customer service. Then it got moved to an online/mail-only service before it was finally ended.

[foreverlomsak]

6 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Immigration do not insist on a Thai Bank ownership letter and annual statements of deposits

Apologies to all, the above was supposed to end in a question mark. it was a query and not meant as a statement.

It was a request for info as the poster of the message appeared to imply that all he needed to satisfy his Immigration Office was copies of letters from his pensions providers with no proof that the money was brought to a Thai bank.