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Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application


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2 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Is this a common experience?

 

I submitted my application to SB on the basis of PR and paid the fee towards the end of last year.  I submitted the remaining documents requested (name reservation +++) in December last year.  I was contacted by a new officer on Saturday, a lady with whom I had not previously been in communication, requesting more documents ahead of fixing an interview (with whom I don't know).  She said the interview would last no more than 1 hour by video call.  Anyhow, the list of documents she is requesting is broadly the same ones that I already submitted at the point of making my original application (there were one or two additional documents asked for - drivers licence and birth certificate).  I pointed out to her that I had already submitted all of these documents last year to SB.  She said the document had been sent to the National Intelligence Agency.  At first I didn't really understand what she was asking for.  It seems she wants me to submit copies of more or less the same set of documents that I already submitted to SB which may either be submitted by Line app, email, or post.  Upon receipt of the said documents she would then arrange for my interview.

 

Is this common?  Has this happened to other applicants?

 

Thank for the input in advance.

Well its good everything went to NIA. Personally i would just take the time and give her whatever she wants at move on. 

 

Personally i never had to do this but if your original contract is gone maybe some documents are lost

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Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

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6 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

Yes, you need to complete an interview with the NIA before they send your documents to the MOI for the final interview.

 

Ours lasted 1.5 hours, but that could be because I speak Thai fairly well and we had an in-depth conversation about all aspects of life in Thailand.  The people were very pleasant to deal with.

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11 hours ago, Marcati said:

Yes, you need to complete an interview with the NIA before they send your documents to the MOI for the final interview.

 

Ours lasted 1.5 hours, but that could be because I speak Thai fairly well and we had an in-depth conversation about all aspects of life in Thailand.  The people were very pleasant to deal with.

Thanks for your input.

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18 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

It sounds like the process has changed a bit since I went through this part of the process 5 years ago.  At that time interviewing with NIA was within 3 months after SB interview and fingerprinting.  The NIA interview was only 30 minutes, and that was after a very detailed inspection of all of our vital documents.  The NIA officer even found some errors that the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs made with our documents.  I thought that was funny, and fortunately, the officer just moved on without making a big deal.  

 

The big wait will be after you finish your NIA interview.  After NIA your application gets sent all around Bangkok for every department in the kingdom to affix their rubber stamp before it is finally forwarded onto MOI.  You will not receive any automatic status updates from the time your NIA interview is finished until your MOI interview is scheduled.  Many have reported that their SB officer did the decent thing and told them when their application was finally forwarded to MOI.  In my case this was 5 or 6 months after my NIA interview that my documents were finally sent to the long queue at MOI (I had to ask my officer when it was finally sent).  Right before my documents were sent to MOI, I did get a call back from my SB officer that I needed to bring some additional documents that the officer rejected the year prior saying that they weren't needed.  I found out later that this mistake from my office ended up costing 8 months of processing time on my application.  This is a lesson from the experience, that I think everyone here will echo, you just have to be patient with the process and give them whatever documents they ask for... at least in my case, they never asked for anything more than documents, and I never got the feeling that that would be required from my application to ultimately be successfully processed. There is no firm timeline but it seems that all applications within the past 7 years are completed between 2 years and 4 years after you apply.  If you are famous, then you can possibly get everything finished within 1 year.

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23 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

It sounds like the process has changed a bit since I went through this part of the process 5 years ago.  At that time interviewing with NIA was within 3 months after SB interview and fingerprinting.  The NIA interview was only 30 minutes, and that was after a very detailed inspection of all of our vital documents.  The NIA officer even found some errors that the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs made with our documents.  I thought that was funny, and fortunately, the officer just moved on without making a big deal.  

 

The big wait will be after you finish your NIA interview.  After NIA your application gets sent all around Bangkok for every department in the kingdom to affix their rubber stamp before it is finally forwarded onto MOI.  You will not receive any automatic status updates from the time your NIA interview is finished until your MOI interview is scheduled.  Many have reported that their SB officer did the decent thing and told them when their application was finally forwarded to MOI.  In my case this was 5 or 6 months after my NIA interview that my documents were finally sent to the long queue at MOI (I had to ask my officer when it was finally sent).  Right before my documents were sent to MOI, I did get a call back from my SB officer that I needed to bring some additional documents that the officer rejected the year prior saying that they weren't needed.  I found out later that this mistake from my office ended up costing 8 months of processing time on my application.  This is a lesson from the experience, that I think everyone here will echo, you just have to be patient with the process and give them whatever documents they ask for... at least in my case, they never asked for anything more than documents, and I never got the feeling that that would be required from my application to ultimately be successfully processed. There is no firm timeline but it seems that all applications within the past 7 years are completed between 2 years and 4 years after you apply.  If you are famous, then you can possibly get everything finished within 1 year.

Thank you for your input too.  Alas, I'm not famous, hopefully not infamous either, but certainly not famous, so I guess I'll just have to wait.

 

I think my NIA interview should be more or less within 3 months of submitting the remaining outstanding documents which was some weeks after my interview and finger printing (which was done twice).  Thanks for the insights regarding the delays between the NIA interview and the file going to the MOI.

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19 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

Thank you for your input yankee99.  Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already.  I was curious to know how common my experience was.  My original contact is still at SB.  We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset.  Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

I think the main milestones are 

 

1. application and SB interview 

 

2. passing NIA interview 

 

3. documents forwarded to the moi

 

after those its really just waiting 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

I think the main milestones are 

 

1. application and SB interview 

 

2. passing NIA interview 

 

3. documents forwarded to the moi

 

after those its really just waiting 

 

 

????

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26 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Are you sure the lady wasn't from the national intelligence agency? if so it was probably normal for her to request all the documents again as they may be working from home.

That's a good question, thank you for asking it.  No, I am not sure that she isn't from the NIA.  I shall ask my PA to call her in a day or two to check that the documents already submitted are all in order and to ask her which office she's from.

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On 3/22/2022 at 1:41 AM, Marcati said:

Yes, you need to complete an interview with the NIA before they send your documents to the MOI for the final interview.

 

Ours lasted 1.5 hours, but that could be because I speak Thai fairly well and we had an in-depth conversation about all aspects of life in Thailand.  The people were very pleasant to deal with.

I think the wife and I spent 30 minutes on that tops, in Thai as well. As with your case, the man/woman who interviewed the wife and I were very friendly. About 10 minutes in the conversation turned to exchanging info about kids/schooling, etc. so it was clear that we had passed whatever hurdle was involved and the remaining 20 minutes was just friendly banter.  In my case the least daunting portion of the process were the interviews. It was the document gathering, translating, authenticating, etc. that involved the most headaches and time. 

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22 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Are you sure the lady wasn't from the national intelligence agency? if so it was probably normal for her to request all the documents again as they may be working from home.

She is indeed at the NIA.  So I am now just awaiting the interview appointment.  Presumably there is a second interview at MOI much later in the process, is that so?

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3 minutes ago, Arun Mai said:

She is indeed at the NIA.  So I am now just awaiting the interview appointment.  Presumably there is a second interview at MOI much later in the process, is that so?

Yes; that is correct.

In my case application to SB was in July 2018. NIA in Nov 2018. MOI interview was on 21st Sep 2020.

 All the best.

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On 3/28/2022 at 11:33 AM, Arun Mai said:

Just a quick update.  I had my NIA interview this morning, so it's still fresh in memory.  The lady intervieing me was charming, as Thais are culturally predisosed towards being in my experience.  Nothing difficult about the interview.  The standard sort of questions about family, work, interests, why I would like to become Thai, how long I've been here, what brought me here originally.  She also asked me about my views on covid, how many vaccinations I have received and whether I had side-effects.  She was also interested in whether I indended to change my name if I am granted citizenship.  She was curious, on a personal note she said, to know the rules and whether or not it is obligorty to change one's name upon successfully being granted Thai nationality.  I informed her that it is no longer obligatory to do so.  All the sort of questions one might expect perhaps.  The interview lasted about 45 minutes and was conducted exclusively in Thai and on a LineApp video call.  I installed the Line App on my computer so I could sit comfortably during the interview.  The lady conducting it informed me that after this my file goes back to the SB.

Yes, and after the file goes back to SB, you can keep checking with the case officer until SB sends it to the MOI. And that is when the really LONG wait starts....expect 15-24 months. I am also on this long wait now, over 14 months now.

Edited by saakura
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I have read that many banks/financial institutions outside the US refuse to take on American customers because of the reporting requirements. Are there any Americans who have obtained Thai citizenship who have any experience with this? My Thai passport lists the USA as my birthplace, so are banks/financial institutions still likely to turn me down? I am not just talking about Thai banks or foreign institutions, but banks in other countries as well. 

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7 hours ago, qualtrough said:

I have read that many banks/financial institutions outside the US refuse to take on American customers because of the reporting requirements. Are there any Americans who have obtained Thai citizenship who have any experience with this? My Thai passport lists the USA as my birthplace, so are banks/financial institutions still likely to turn me down? I am not just talking about Thai banks or foreign institutions, but banks in other countries as well. 

Use your govt ID, instead of PP, unless that also signifies USA as birthplace. 

 

I'm a Yank, not a Thai citizen, and have account at BkkBank, and had accounts in the past at Thanachart, UOB, CIMB, along with Kasikorn also, I think, with no problems.

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8 hours ago, qualtrough said:

I have read that many banks/financial institutions outside the US refuse to take on American customers because of the reporting requirements. Are there any Americans who have obtained Thai citizenship who have any experience with this? My Thai passport lists the USA as my birthplace, so are banks/financial institutions still likely to turn me down? I am not just talking about Thai banks or foreign institutions, but banks in other countries as well. 

I have never had a issue opening a bank account in thailand with my usa passport.   Also even when you are thai opening a account in thailand they will ask if you are a usa citizen then ask you to sign a irs form if you are. 

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56 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

I have never had a issue opening a bank account in thailand with my usa passport.   Also even when you are thai opening a account in thailand they will ask if you are a usa citizen then ask you to sign a irs form if you are. 

I have heard of Thai fund management companies refusing to open accounts for Americans, even for RMF accounts but the banks still seem willing to open accounts, subject to your signing the FATCA form.  Of course that means you will have to declare that bank account with the IRS.  One of my former Thai staff was a US citizen as  a result of being born there. When she opened an account at the company's bank to get her payroll (never understood why payroll couldn't be paid into any bank, as happens in other countries), she decided not to tell them she was a US citizen. She said she had never filed for US tax and wanted to stay off their radar.  If Americans become Thai, they can perhaps make the same choice but they are probably already on the IRS radar screen. There is no place of birth on the ID card but, if your parents are or were American, they can see that on your tabien baan and might be suspicious and you might have to pretend you have renounced US citizenship but would not be able to produce evidence of that.  So for someone already on the IRS radar, it may not be worth the effort of avoiding the FATCA form.  But the good thing is that you can still open a bank account in Thailand, if you are an American, at least for now. An American friend with an account in Switzerland was given a year to wind down his account, as the bank had decided to boot out all their US clients completely to avoid FATCA hassles.

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Thank you to those who replied to my question. I guess I should have made it clearer that I was not concerned about Thai accounts as I already have several of those. My key concern is opening accounts in foreign countries such as Singapore, for example. I am not seeking to avoid the scrutiny of the IRS, although truth be told if I thought I could get away from it I would do so in a heartbeat, but rather diversify holdings. Put another way, not keeping what few eggs I have in one basket.

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Sawasdee ka

 

I am an American woman seeking citizenship through my Thai husband. I've read this entire thread, have a couple questions, and will share details about our approach so far. My husband has already established contact with the Special Branch in Bangkok, though we have not yet submitted my application.

 

First, my immediate question. I am in the process of being issued a yellow tabien baan in Phitsanulok, where my husband's parents live. My father-in-law is the head of household / yai tabien baan. Once we receive this tabien baan (hopefully tomorrow), we will start the process of transferring it to a condo in Bangkok which my father-in-law currently owns. Although many have spoken on this thread regarding the importance of transferring the tabien baan to Bangkok for citizenship application purposes, the process of transferring has not been covered in detail, therefore I am looking for advice.

 

In our case, we have both short-term and long-term goals. The short-term goal is to get me registered in Bangkok ASAP so we can submit my application there. The long-term goal is that my father-in-law wants to transfer the condo to my husband by affection (i.e., give it to him for free). Apparently, this process will take time because my father-in-law will need to get permission from the property management company that controls the condo complex. He estimates that the process will take a week or two at a minimum and he will need to be in Bangkok during that time (he's reluctant to fly due to COVID so we'll need to drive him there which is a little tricky to schedule). Then, my husband will become the yai tabien for that property.

 

My question is... should we try to transfer my yellow tabien baan while my father-in-law still owns it? Will this work if my father-in-law is unwilling to travel to the khet in Bangkok (Don Mueang in this case)? Or will we better off in the long run if we wait for the property to be transferred to my husband and then move my tabien baan?

 

Thank you for any insights. I'll post separately about our progress thus far because there are some interesting details.

Edited by rsskga
Clarified that my father-in-law also owns a condo in Bangkok
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I want to simply share some information here in case it is helpful to anyone else in the future.

 

My husband and I are childless so need to show that our marriage has existed for 3 years prior to my citizenship application. We've been in a committed relationship for nearly 10 years, with evidence like shared bank accounts, life and health insurance policies, pets, photographs, etc. for more than 5 years. We got a marriage license in San Francisco in 2017 with the intention of tying the knot at city hall, but I was having health problems at the time and we were unable to keep the appointment. Shortly thereafter, we moved to New Mexico, and then to Iowa, where my immediate family resides.

 

The State of Iowa recognizes Common Law marriage, wherein an affidavit can be signed in lieu of a traditional marriage ceremony/license/certificate. Affidavits of this nature can be effectively backdated. While Thailand does not directly recognize common law marriage within Thailand, most states and nations will recognize marriages that are/were legal and valid where and when they occurred.

 

Wanting to have our marriage recognized in Thailand, we signed an affidavit at the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai citing the marriage statues of Iowa. We then mailed this affidavit to my mother in Iowa, and she graciously filed it with the records department there. This process resulted in a public records document identification number which can be referenced as a marriage license number surrogate.

 

After translation and legalization of these documents, we were able to register the foreign marriage at our local Amphur and receive a Kor Ror 22 Family Status Registration document to use within Thailand as proof of our marriage.

 

In our case, we have close family connections in Iowa, are registered to vote in Iowa (my husband has dual Thai-American citizenship), and other evidence to legitimize the validity of our relationship. Because some other U.S. also recognize common law marriage, and because one needn't necessarily be a resident of a state to get married in the state, I thought this approach might be helpful for others in the future.

 

I could share the actual documents we used upon request. Let me know if anyone is interested in seeing them.

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Some other complexities related to our case... advice welcome.

 

Taxes

My husband works remotely full time for an American company. We did just file a Thai personal income tax return PND 90 on which he cited ฿480,000 of freelance income for 2021. Basically, he voluntarily paid tax that he didn't actually owe (we were not yet residents of Thailand in 2021) so that we technically meet the requirements for my citizenship application. We were already thinking of doing this, and the Special Branch officer my husband spoke to encouraged us to do it.

 

Income Verification

My husband wrote himself an income verification letter for the freelance income, and we've also requested an income verification letter from his American employer which we will translate.

 

A little unsure how strict they are going to be about his income being "Thai income". Perspectives welcome.

 

Divorce Registration (Form Kor. 6 or Form Kor.7) (if any)

My husband's only marriage is to me. I was previously married and divorced in the U.S., but of course there is no Kor. 6 or Kor. 7 as evidence of this. Do I need to document this for them? Or just pretend like it didn't happen since it didn't happen within Thailand?

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3 hours ago, rsskga said:

I want to simply share some information here in case it is helpful to anyone else in the future.

 

My husband and I are childless so need to show that our marriage has existed for 3 years prior to my citizenship application. We've been in a committed relationship for nearly 10 years, with evidence like shared bank accounts, life and health insurance policies, pets, photographs, etc. for more than 5 years. We got a marriage license in San Francisco in 2017 with the intention of tying the knot at city hall, but I was having health problems at the time and we were unable to keep the appointment. Shortly thereafter, we moved to New Mexico, and then to Iowa, where my immediate family resides.

 

The State of Iowa recognizes Common Law marriage, wherein an affidavit can be signed in lieu of a traditional marriage ceremony/license/certificate. Affidavits of this nature can be effectively backdated. While Thailand does not directly recognize common law marriage within Thailand, most states and nations will recognize marriages that are/were legal and valid where and when they occurred.

 

Wanting to have our marriage recognized in Thailand, we signed an affidavit at the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai citing the marriage statues of Iowa. We then mailed this affidavit to my mother in Iowa, and she graciously filed it with the records department there. This process resulted in a public records document identification number which can be referenced as a marriage license number surrogate.

 

After translation and legalization of these documents, we were able to register the foreign marriage at our local Amphur and receive a Kor Ror 22 Family Status Registration document to use within Thailand as proof of our marriage.

 

In our case, we have close family connections in Iowa, are registered to vote in Iowa (my husband has dual Thai-American citizenship), and other evidence to legitimize the validity of our relationship. Because some other U.S. also recognize common law marriage, and because one needn't necessarily be a resident of a state to get married in the state, I thought this approach might be helpful for others in the future.

 

I could share the actual documents we used upon request. Let me know if anyone is interested in seeing them.

You can be married anywhere in the world. 

Your US marriage cert needs to be stamped by your Embassy, translated to Thai and then counter attested by THAI MFA.

 

As you have already done that, nothing is required further.

 

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3 hours ago, rsskga said:

Some other complexities related to our case... advice welcome.

 

Taxes

My husband works remotely full time for an American company. We did just file a Thai personal income tax return PND 90 on which he cited ฿480,000 of freelance income for 2021. Basically, he voluntarily paid tax that he didn't actually owe (we were not yet residents of Thailand in 2021) so that we technically meet the requirements for my citizenship application. We were already thinking of doing this, and the Special Branch officer my husband spoke to encouraged us to do it.

 

Income Verification

My husband wrote himself an income verification letter for the freelance income, and we've also requested an income verification letter from his American employer which we will translate.

 

A little unsure how strict they are going to be about his income being "Thai income". Perspectives welcome.

 

Divorce Registration (Form Kor. 6 or Form Kor.7) (if any)

My husband's only marriage is to me. I was previously married and divorced in the U.S., but of course there is no Kor. 6 or Kor. 7 as evidence of this. Do I need to document this for them? Or just pretend like it didn't happen since it didn't happen within Thailand?

Income Verification

My husband wrote himself an income verification letter for the freelance income, and we've also requested an income verification letter from his American employer which we will translate.

 

A little unsure how strict they are going to be about his income being "Thai income". Perspectives welcome.

 

Answer - I am quite sure Foreign income is not accepted, freelance is not a problem though.

Minimum income for Thai husbands was THB 30,000/- per month, last time I checked (Rules may have changed)

 

 

 

Divorce Registration (Form Kor. 6 or Form Kor.7) (if any)

My husband's only marriage is to me. I was previously married and divorced in the U.S., but of course there is no Kor. 6 or Kor. 7 as evidence of this. Do I need to document this for them? Or just pretend like it didn't happen since it didn't happen within Thailand?

 

Answer - Your US Divorce cert is accepted if your Embassy verifies it.

 

Special Police never requests for Divorce certificates but later down the line N.I.A. has requested many candidates for it, so if you can prepare yours, would be advantageous.

 

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On 4/7/2022 at 7:07 PM, yankee99 said:

The owner of the property needs to be present to add you to the yellow book

Additionally, there is no real transfer from one Tabien Baan book to another.  In order to move your official residency you have de-register yourself first in Phitsanulok and then register again in Bangkok, and you will need to bring the documents from Phitsanulok to Bangkok to prove you did it.  I had to do this when moving my residency from ChonBuri to Bangkok after being advised not to try and apply for citizenship from another province as it would take much longer.

 

If your father-in-law is not able to travel and your husband is already registered in the Tabien Baan in Bangkok he can represent his father, but I recommend you call the Khet District Office first to ensure they won't deny him.  I had the same situation and had no problem with wife representing her.

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