Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[sinthavee]

56 minutes ago, david143 said:

RG was published 4th August 2021
i contacted my SB officer on 5th morning he said he still don't know and asked REALLY, i said Chai
My SB officer called me on 26 August and we book for 1 September 2021.
Almost 21 days for Certificate in Hand.
 

 

50 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

My letter arrived after i picked up my certificate from SB. Its really not needed for anything. 

Thank you David143&Yankee99 brothers. I will be waiting for the call from SB officer w/o worrying about the confirmation letter arrival. Hopefully, will have the new blue ID & passport, within this year or at least within 15th Jan, 2022(Passport could take more time at year end, considering Thailand opening up & holidays).

[david143]

6 minutes ago, sinthavee said:

 

Thank you David143&Yankee99 brothers. I will be waiting for the call from SB officer w/o worrying about the confirmation letter arrival. Hopefully, will have the new blue ID & passport, within this year or at least within 15th Jan, 2022(Passport could take more time at year end, considering Thailand opening up & holidays).

your all process will done within December

[sinthavee]

1 hour ago, david143 said:

your all process will done within December

Thank you David143. Eagerly looking forward to get the ID & Passport. It will be 3.5 years (end Dec 2021) from submitting application at SB.

[david143]

relax brother , soon very soon,

[yankee99]

3 hours ago, sinthavee said:

 

Thank you David143&Yankee99 brothers. I will be waiting for the call from SB officer w/o worrying about the confirmation letter arrival. Hopefully, will have the new blue ID & passport, within this year or at least within 15th Jan, 2022(Passport could take more time at year end, considering Thailand opening up & holidays).

Passport was super quick in pattaya under 5 working days

[Badger18]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:27 PM, Arun Mai said:

One letter was requesting documentation to the effect that I had expressed an intention to renounce my British citizenship upon successfully obtaining Thai citizenship

I guess this has been asked before - I did try searching but no dice. In the real world do people actually go ahead and renounce their original citizenship, and if so what happens about travel? I mean could the British embassy refuse you a visa if you wanted to visit for a couple of weeks, would you be unable to rush back if you needed to go to a funeral, etc?

[DrJoy]

39 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

I guess this has been asked before - I did try searching but no dice. In the real world do people actually go ahead and renounce their original citizenship, and if so what happens about travel? I mean could the British embassy refuse you a visa if you wanted to visit for a couple of weeks, would you be unable to rush back if you needed to go to a funeral, etc?

The rule -

You’re not allowed to use your original citizenship anymore whilst in Thailand.

[qualtrough]

3 hours ago, DrJoy said:

The rule -

You’re not allowed to use your original citizenship anymore whilst in Thailand.

If you have dual citizenship you don't need to use your other passport inside Thailand. You exit the airport here on your Thai passport, and you enter your home country on your home country passport. Going back you exit using your home country passport, and enter Thailand on your Thai passport. I don't believe the Thai government has any issue with that, but if that isn't correct let me know.

[Badger18]

8 hours ago, qualtrough said:

If you have dual citizenship you don't need to use your other passport inside Thailand. You exit the airport here on your Thai passport, and you enter your home country on your home country passport. Going back you exit using your home country passport, and enter Thailand on your Thai passport. I don't believe the Thai government has any issue with that, but if that isn't correct let me know.

But if you give up your original citizenship you will also have to give up your passport, surely. And obviously you won't have dual citizenship at that point. So are we saying that you sign a letter of intention to renounce in order to get your Thai citizenship, but don't go ahead and renounce after Thai citizenship is granted, and that the Thai government is OK with that as long as you don't use your foreign passport in Thailand? Or is it just that they probably won't find out as long as you don't use your foreign passport in Thailand?

 

Also, wouldn't you have to show your home country passport at check-in, if going back? If you give them your Thai passport surely they'll want to see a visa, unless you happen to be from a country that has visa exemption for Thai nationals. I would have thought you'd have to do two separate flights e.g. fly from Thailand to Turkey on your Thai passport, enter visa exempt as a Thai national, then fly to Europe on your original passport.

 

It's all a long way in the future for me but it's still good to understand how it works. The wording of the letter of intention might make things clearer - don't know if that's online anywhere.

[yankee99]

47 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

But if you give up your original citizenship you will also have to give up your passport, surely. And obviously you won't have dual citizenship at that point. So are we saying that you sign a letter of intention to renounce in order to get your Thai citizenship, but don't go ahead and renounce after Thai citizenship is granted, and that the Thai government is OK with that as long as you don't use your foreign passport in Thailand? Or is it just that they probably won't find out as long as you don't use your foreign passport in Thailand?

 

Also, wouldn't you have to show your home country passport at check-in, if going back? If you give them your Thai passport surely they'll want to see a visa, unless you happen to be from a country that has visa exemption for Thai nationals. I would have thought you'd have to do two separate flights e.g. fly from Thailand to Turkey on your Thai passport, enter visa exempt as a Thai national, then fly to Europe on your original passport.

 

It's all a long way in the future for me but it's still good to understand how it works. The wording of the letter of intention might make things clearer - don't know if that's online anywhere.

intention is just a plan which most of us have and they dont always come to fruition.   You would show the airlines both passports but immigration only one.

[Badger18]

32 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

intention is just a plan which most of us have and they dont always come to fruition.   You would show the airlines both passports but immigration only one.

mm but it doesn't sound much like you ever do have any intention of renouncing citizenship, you just say you do in order to get your Thai citizenship. I'm not criticizing here, just trying to understand how it all works. I mean to me the point of getting citizenship is that you have some security, but if your Thai citizenship can be taken away because it was only granted on the basis that you would give up your original citizenship, and you haven't done so, how much security is it really giving you?

 

The reason they don't require you to give up your existing citizenship in advance will be that you would then be stateless until Thai citizenship was granted, and there's no guarantee at that point that it will be granted. So the fact that it's done that way doesn't mean it's OK to change your mind once your Thai citizenship comes through.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

4 hours ago, Badger18 said:

mm but it doesn't sound much like you ever do have any intention of renouncing citizenship, you just say you do in order to get your Thai citizenship.

Nope. Once you become Thai you cannot use your former nationality within the kingdom (which is the place we live), so from that point onwards immigration-wise you can't go to your foreign embassy seeking for help or protection anymore. If this is not a renouncement of former citizenship, tell us what it is.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

 . . except it's NOT a renouncement. You're simply playing lip service to the Thai rules. You still have your former nationality. Personally I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. You send a letter stating you are willing to renounce your former citizenship, but they never force you to do it, and you never go ahead with it. Net result = dual nationality.

 

There are still people trying to alarm my children by telling them they have to choose a nationality when they become adults. It's safe to ignore these people.

[Arun Mai]

18 hours ago, Badger18 said:

I guess this has been asked before - I did try searching but no dice. In the real world do people actually go ahead and renounce their original citizenship, and if so what happens about travel? I mean could the British embassy refuse you a visa if you wanted to visit for a couple of weeks, would you be unable to rush back if you needed to go to a funeral, etc?

I'm in no position to answer that question.  What is clear is that part of the process of applying for naturalisation in Thailand is to express an intention to renounce one's existing nationality upon successfully obtaining Thai nationality.  I'm not sure what that means for people with, say, two different nationalities, for example.  I do know of Americans who have renounced their American citizenship when they have had second or even third nationalities, although that was primarily because of the onerous American tax system.

 

Ultimately, nationality is a legal status conditional on the laws of any given sovereign state.  In my opinion, for very many people their nationality forms an integral part of their identity, wheras in reality nationality is nothing more than a social construct.  Personally, I gave up BEING British long ago, although that doesn't alter my legal status as British.

 

As for visas, I understand that it was at least once possible to have one's Thai passport endorsed to indicate that the bearer had the right of abode in the UK so that no visa was required to enter the UK on such a  Thais passport.  Whether or not that is still possible, I have no idea.

[ubonjoe]

48 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

There are still people trying to alarm my children by telling them they have to choose a nationality when they become adults. It's safe to ignore these people.

The section in the nationality act confuses a lot of people.

It only means they are old enough at the age of 20 to choose what they want to do instead of their parents.

[khongaeng]

9 hours ago, Badger18 said:

mm but it doesn't sound much like you ever do have any intention of renouncing citizenship, you just say you do in order to get your Thai citizenship. I'm not criticizing here, just trying to understand how it all works.

This all depends on the country of your original citizenship.  When you obtain Thai citizenship, the Special Branch will send a letter to your embassy saying that you have obtained Thai citizenship.  If you are from a country that can't be bothered like the US, UK, Canada, Australia.... then I assume the letter goes in the waste bin. I have heard from my US friends that they actually have to pay 3000 dollars to renounce their citizenship, and if they formally say that they are doing it to avoid paying taxes, they will not be allowed to renounce their citizenship.  For countries that don't care about dual nationality, you can just say that your intentions to renounce citizenship changed. However, if you are from China, Singapore, Germany, India, to name a few, you will be required to renounce your citizenship, based on their own laws.  

 

I doubt that the Thai authorities will ever require you to give up a second nationality because I have known some very powerful people in the government and Thai social structures that are dual nationals.  Axing dual nationality will directly affect them too.  

 

Travel is not a problem at all.  I have already flown in and out of the country multiple times with 2 passports, and immigration doesn't care if you have a visa to the country you are going to or not.  If you are particularly worried, just go through the automatic immigration gates. But you will need to show your foreign passport at check-in if visa is required.  

 

GabbaGabbaHey is also correct based on what I have heard.  In talking with some friends that work in their respective embassies if you enter into Thailand with your Thai passport (which you are legally required to do, if you are Thai) that you are no longer able to seek diplomatic assistance of any sort from your embassy.  You can always renew your passport and take care of citizenship services, but if you get thrown in jail as a Thai, you are stuck.  When Nato forces pulled out of Afghanistan, all of the foreign nationals that were left behind were dual citizens that were not on the embassy records because they had arrived in Afghanistan on their local Afghanistan passports.  I assume this would be the case if there is ever a need for medical or emergency evacuations from Thailand for specific nationals.  You are a Thai, so you are stuck here.  

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

9 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

if you enter into Thailand with your Thai passport (which you are legally required to do, if you are Thai) that you are no longer able to seek diplomatic assistance of any sort from your embassy.  You can always renew your passport and take care of citizenship services, but if you get thrown in jail as a Thai, you are stuck.

Just to be clear here, years ago when I was weighing up the pros and cons of becoming Thai, I examined the diplomatic representation issue, and came to the conclusion you're stuck with or without the so called representation. I concluded therefore there are no cons.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, khongaeng said:

In talking with some friends that work in their respective embassies if you enter into Thailand with your Thai passport (which you are legally required to do, if you are Thai) that you are no longer able to seek diplomatic assistance of any sort from your embassy.

I asked the UK Embassy staff here about this but got no answer. 

If I go into the British Embassy, am I not on British soil?

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:59 AM, sinthavee said:

Interested to know how many days it took for getting letter confirming notification of Thai citizenship & asking to contact/collect the naturalisation certificate at the SB, for the last two batches (RG publications were on 4th & 5th Aug). If possible, please share the copy of letter w/o personal references.

 Thanks.

I never got a letter. Just a phone call. 

[Neeranam]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:11 PM, qualtrough said:

Has anyone else noticed and found it strange that there are no questions at all about Thai history or culture required for citizenship, unlike many other countries? All I did was a 10 point multiple choice which included questions about government office opening hours (got that wrong). I wonder why that is?

There were some multiple choice questions about history/culture but not many. 

 

Gaining Thai citizenship is easier than most other countries, although I have a tough time trying to convince others about this. 

 

I usually say เรียบง่ายแต่ไม่ง่าย

 

 

 

[sinthavee]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I never got a letter. Just a phone call. 

Thank you Neeranam brother.

[Badger18]

22 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

 You're simply playing lip service to the Thai rules.

 

Yes exactly.

22 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

 

Personally I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

It's not. It's more that since you haven't actually complied with the rules, it's reasonable to expect there may be some consequences, and I was asking what they were. It seems like nobody has run into a practical problem so far, which is obviously a good sign, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if everything was above board and there was no "lip service" involved. Of course you can always go ahead and renounce your original citizenship anyway, but if there doesn't look to be any risk in keeping it (and there's no tax angle) it'd be a pretty silly thing to do.

 

21 hours ago, Arun Mai said:

As for visas, I understand that it was at least once possible to have one's Thai passport endorsed to indicate that the bearer had the right of abode in the UK

Interesting - but the right of abode is based on citizenship, surely, so you're still using your foreign citizenship. The consensus seems to be they don't care anyway, but in that case you can just use both passports.

 

I don't really get why they ask for a letter of intention if the whole thing is a fiction, but I guess it's just a case of TIT.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Badger18

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

1 hour ago, Badger18 said:

It's more that since you haven't actually complied with the rules

The problem is you're not indicating what rule you think has been broken. Dual nationality is not specifically forbidden in the Thai nationality act. The 'rule' is that you make a statement of intent to satiate the foibles of whoever wanted the rule put in place. It is not enforced, it is unenforceable. It's so absurd I would wager it will almost certainly be removed from future iterations of the act.

[qualtrough]

1 hour ago, Badger18 said:

Yes exactly.

It's not. It's more that since you haven't actually complied with the rules, it's reasonable to expect there may be some consequences, and I was asking what they were. It seems like nobody has run into a practical problem so far, which is obviously a good sign, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if everything was above board and there was no "lip service" involved. Of course you can always go ahead and renounce your original citizenship anyway, but if there doesn't look to be any risk in keeping it (and there's no tax angle) it'd be a pretty silly thing to do.

 

Interesting - but the right of abode is based on citizenship, surely, so you're still using your foreign citizenship. The consensus seems to be they don't care anyway, but in that case you can just use both passports.

 

I don't really get why they ask for a letter of intention if the whole thing is a fiction, but I guess it's just a case of TIT.

If things have to be cut and dried and clear cut, Thailand isn't a place you want to live.

[Badger18]

1 hour ago, qualtrough said:

If things have to be cut and dried and clear cut, Thailand isn't a place you want to live.

I know what you mean. Right now I'm keeping an eye on the proposed new 10-year visa, but the category that's open to me requires you to spend $500k on Thai property. If I was going to do that I'd need some certainty that I was going to be able to go on living in it - not be forced to sell following a change of policy on letting foreign citizens buy land, not be forced to leave the country after the 10 years were up, etc. I thought that citizenship might offer that, and in a way it does - but it brings other issues with it. If I'm just going to be in temporary accommodation, same as I have been up to now, then I'm happy to take it as it comes.

 

There's an absolutely fantastic house that's just gone on the market near Chiang Mai. The seller built it for himself and his wife with no expense spared. They had been living abroad but she is Thai and wanted to come home. The care that's gone into the design of the place is incredible. Anyway, it turns out he doesn't like Thailand so they're selling. No doubt they'll get a decent chunk of cash back but it'll be a lot less than they spent, and all that wasted effort. That's the kind of thing I was trying to avoid here.

[qualtrough]

Three related questions if I may, related to obtaining the Thai ID card at the end of the process.

 

To go through this process I changed my yellow book to the yellow book of a family relative in Bangkok. 

 

Question One:

 

When I get my documents and go down to obtain my Thai ID card and present that yellow book (along with all the other required docs), does the yellow book home owner have to be present or in any way involved?

 

Question Two:

 

When I want to transfer from my current yellow book to the blue book of our home, does the yellow book home owner have to sign off on that, be present, or anything like that?

 

Question Three:

 

Once I have the blue book, I assume it should be a straightforward matter to change the address on my ID card to the blue book address. Any obstacles, headaches involved with that process?

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Neeranam]

On 12/1/2021 at 12:33 PM, Badger18 said:

mm but it doesn't sound much like you ever do have any intention of renouncing citizenship, you just say you do in order to get your Thai citizenship. I'm not criticizing here, just trying to understand how it all works. I mean to me the point of getting citizenship is that you have some security, but if your Thai citizenship can be taken away because it was only granted on the basis that you would give up your original citizenship, and you haven't done so, how much security is it really giving you?

 

The reason they don't require you to give up your existing citizenship in advance will be that you would then be stateless until Thai citizenship was granted, and there's no guarantee at that point that it will be granted. So the fact that it's done that way doesn't mean it's OK to change your mind once your Thai citizenship comes through.

I think you are confused here. The Thai naturalization legislation does NOT say that dual citizenship is illegal; mind you, it doesn't say it is legal.

The Ministry of Interior don't care if anyone doesn't renounce their original nationality. Most Embassies that issue the letter of intent to do this don't care either. You CAN NOT get your Thai citizenship taken away because you never renounced your other one; you never actually said you would. This letter is asked for just to limit the number of people who actually apply; yes some believe the nonsense they hear in the bars.

Maybe you remember the issue with Abi<deleted>, the PM who had dual citizenship. 

The Ministry of Foreign affairs has a website that tells Thais how to go about travelling with two passports, encouraging them to become Naturalized when the live in another country. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, qualtrough said:

Question One:

 

When I get my documents and go down to obtain my Thai ID card and present that yellow book (along with all the other required docs), does the yellow book home owner have to be present or in any way involved?

yes -  but my wife didn't have to be there. They asked for 1 witness, so had to phone the yellow book owner's son, who was under 20.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, qualtrough said:

When I want to transfer from my current yellow book to the blue book of our home, does the yellow book home owner have to sign off on that, be present, or anything like that?

Before you get your Thai ID, you are put on the blue book of the home owner in Bangkok. 

When changing Blue book to your home province, they don't need to be there. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, qualtrough said:

Once I have the blue book, I assume it should be a straightforward matter to change the address on my ID card to the blue book address. Any obstacles, headaches involved with that process?

Shouldn't be a problem, I actually didn't do it, there is no need.