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Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application


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23 hours ago, Badger18 said:

Yes exactly.

It's not. It's more that since you haven't actually complied with the rules, it's reasonable to expect there may be some consequences, and I was asking what they were. It seems like nobody has run into a practical problem so far, which is obviously a good sign, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if everything was above board and there was no "lip service" involved. Of course you can always go ahead and renounce your original citizenship anyway, but if there doesn't look to be any risk in keeping it (and there's no tax angle) it'd be a pretty silly thing to do.

 

Interesting - but the right of abode is based on citizenship, surely, so you're still using your foreign citizenship. The consensus seems to be they don't care anyway, but in that case you can just use both passports.

 

I don't really get why they ask for a letter of intention if the whole thing is a fiction, but I guess it's just a case of TIT.

In the case of Brits, in the past (pre 2018) it was required that applicants executed, in person at the Embassy, a Declaration of Intent to renounce UK citizenship if Thai nationality was granted. It was (is) a criminal offence to make knowingly a false declaration but, as has been pointed out, intentions can change for many reasons. Nowadays the Embassy will not witness this declaration but instead issue a mail order letter which basically says "this person has said they'll give up their British citizenship but UK doesn't care and won't stop him/her having two nationalities". Again, the Thai authorities may not care, but this is making it clear that the embassy expects the person won't do it, so maybe making it harder for the Thai authorities to turn a blind eye.

 

In the past the e-gates of course meant that one never had to deal with an immigration officer rifling through a passport looking for a visa. In these Covid times, however, the e-gates are out of action. This won't be forever and indeed the immigration officers likely don't care, but leaving on a brand spanking new Thai passport with no visa stamps would make it obvious a second passport was being used if on a direct flight to a country where Thai nationals need a visa. Hence flying to, say, UK, via Qatar, or some other country that offers visa free entry for Thais, might be an idea to consider.

 

Thai nationals - those who were born Thai - can hold other nationalities. But naturalised Thais are not allowed to do that, under present regulations. Luckily for Brits, if born before UK Nationality Act 1981, it is allowed to reclaim citizenship if forced to renounce it for the purpose of obtaining a second nationality. It's a drawn out process, but it is an option.

 

Basically any applicant for Thai nationality would be well advised to bear in mind the - however remote it may be - possibility of having to give up one's original nationality.

 

 

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On 12/1/2021 at 12:33 PM, Badger18 said:

The reason they don't require you to give up your existing citizenship in advance will be that you would then be stateless until Thai citizenship was granted, and there's no guarantee at that point that it will be granted. So the fact that it's done that way doesn't mean it's OK to change your mind once your Thai citizenship comes through.

Taiwan does this and it has been a big problem for Vietnamese mail order brides.  Sometimes the marriage breaks up or the husband dies before their Taiwanese citizenship comes through and they have to go back to Vietnam and live there as stateless persons.  Vietnam allows them to surrender their nationality without another one but doesn't allow them to recover their nationality. Often they also have stateless children too who get condemned to a lifetime in limbo.  There's a pretty good reason why most other countries don't allow citizens to renounce their nationality and become stateless.  The Taiwanese attitude in forcing this is disgusting given that citizens born Taiwanese can have as many nationalities as they like.

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6 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

but leaving on a brand spanking new Thai passport with no visa stamps would make it obvious a second passport was being used if on a direct flight to a country where Thai nationals need a visa. Hence flying to, say, UK, via Qatar, or some other country that offers visa free entry for Thais, might be an idea to consider.

I guess one needs to weigh up the advantages of a direct flight against being unlucky and getting delayed by an ignorant Immigration officer who doesn't know that there is NO law against a Naturalized Thai having two passports. 

 

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13 hours ago, Arkady said:

Section 14 of the Nationality Act is confusing because the amended version in 1993 really was originally drafted with the intent of automatically revoking the Thai nationality of dual citizens by birth, if they didn't explicitly renounce their other nationality between the ages of 20 and 21. Someone rather important must have complained about this because, lo and behold, three weeks later a new amendment was promulgated that changed a few words with the result that dual citizens were instead given the right but not the obligation to renounce Thai citizenship between the ages of 20 and 21, although much of the threatening tone of the original is retained. 

 

The motivation behind the original amendment that allowed the automatic revocation of Thai citizenship was that the nasty mandarins at the MoI were unhappy about being forced by politicians to concede equal rights to Thai women to pass on their citizenship to their children.  Prior to 1993 children born to Thai mothers could only get their father's nationality and, if this was not available, they were stateless, unless the mother went through a revolting and humiliating process of making an afidavit to the effect that she couldn't say for sure who the father was but believed he was Thai. But this was still dependent on official discretion. This was not such a big problem before 1971 when all children born in the Kingdom were automatically Thai but it became a huge problem between 1971 and 1993 which was why politicians sought to change things. The mandarins didn't like the idea of thousands of look krung born to Thai women would automatically be Thai and wanted the power to revoke their Thai citizenship, if they retained foreign citizenship. Fortunately they were thwarted by whoever it was.

My son was born in 1989 prior to the change in the law. As a result his birth certificate said that he was English, even though he was born in Thailand and his mother was Thai. We started the process of trying to get him Thai citizenship and were interviewed by the police in Ubolrathchathani as his mother's house registration was based in Ubol. Fortunately, while we were running about here and there to get him sorted, the law changed and he was automatically qualified as a Thai citizen so the law was retroactive. If I recall correctly, the change in the law was introduced when Anand Panyarachun was Prime Minister in 1992, but perhaps it did not become effective until 1993.

 

They did not issue a new birth certificate though, they just crossed out the part that had changed, wrote in by hand "Thai" and typed some stuff on the back of the certificate. I must admit that the District Office handled it quite well though and were helpful to me, despite it probably being strange to them that this foreigner came to get it sorted instead of the child's Thai mother. 

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On 12/2/2021 at 11:59 PM, Neeranam said:

Maybe you remember the issue with Abi<deleted>, the PM who had dual citizenship

Everyone should to come to the realisation that anyone who's anyone in Thailand has dual nationality, whether they make it public or try to sit on it. No one will ever be forced to renounce the other.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly
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11 hours ago, GarryP said:

My son was born in 1989 prior to the change in the law. As a result his birth certificate said that he was English, even though he was born in Thailand and his mother was Thai. We started the process of trying to get him Thai citizenship and were interviewed by the police in Ubolrathchathani as his mother's house registration was based in Ubol. Fortunately, while we were running about here and there to get him sorted, the law changed and he was automatically qualified as a Thai citizen so the law was retroactive. If I recall correctly, the change in the law was introduced when Anand Panyarachun was Prime Minister in 1992, but perhaps it did not become effective until 1993.

 

They did not issue a new birth certificate though, they just crossed out the part that had changed, wrote in by hand "Thai" and typed some stuff on the back of the certificate. I must admit that the District Office handled it quite well though and were helpful to me, despite it probably being strange to them that this foreigner came to get it sorted instead of the child's Thai mother. 

You are right.  It was in 1992. My apologies.  Anand was PM, so it was not pushed through by politicians, as there weren't any at that time, but the process may have been started by politicians before the 1991 coup. Certainly the amendment allowing males married to Thais to apply without PR was pushed by politicians. Both amendments were aimed at giving more equal rights to Thai women.

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8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am now aware of any pages being removed.

'After one of the updates of the forum the layout was changed so that more posts could be shown on a page.

At any rate the number of pages in the thread has always varies depending on what type of device it is viewed on.

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I think forum admins just increased the number of posts displayed per page, but I'd also support moderators to remove some parts which regularly aim to derail the topic, by people challenging the process when they aren't even applicants themselves.

Edited by GabbaGabbaHey
typo
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