Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[G_Money]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

This thread is not to make fun or joke around, this is to help future / in progress candidates.

It wasn’t a joke.

[Captain Flack]

Off topic troll post removed.

[lomtalay]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:12 PM, GarryP said:

Take your ID card and House Registration to the hospital which serves your area and register. Going forward, you will only need to present your ID card. If you are living in Bangkok, you can check the health center which serves your address (it may not necessarily be a "hospital"). For example, the health center serving Sukhumvit 101 was the Wat Thathong Health Center near Ekamai. Up country it is a bit easier as it is going to be pretty much always the nearest government hospital or health center (mine is about 500 meters from my home). 

 

You cannot just walk in to any gov't hospital for care unless it is an emergency such as an accident. If you have a serious issue that your health center can't help with, they will give you a referral to the nearest gov't center that can provide the required treatment. You should not just turn up at a government hospital of "your" choice for the treatment you want, unless you are willing to pay. You should obtain the necessary referral first.    

Do you happen to know how to find out which health center serves your area?

[BKKBike09]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:31 PM, qualtrough said:

You sound bitter, so I am not even sure why you would be hanging around this sub. But to answer your question, and assuming that a farang wants to live in Thailand, the benefits of being a citizen are almost uncountable:

 

1. No need to give up your other citizenship unless you are citizen of a relatively small number of countries who require that.

 

2. No more need to waste time or money on visas, keep a  large deposit of money in the bank, or purchase an expensive long term visa under one of the  several schemes.

 

3. No need for 90 day reporting.

 

4. Free to start and run a business, or do any job you want.

 

5. Free to own land and or a home without engaging in risky workarounds.

 

6. Qualify for various universal health care schemes.

 

7. Visa free entry to ASEAN countries.

 

8. No hassles opening up bank accounts, applying for 7/11 cards, etc. and etc.

 

9. Thai pricing at national parks, which can be up to 10 times cheaper than farang prices.

 

And much, much more. If that's doesn't seem worthwhile for you I don't know what more to say.

 

 

 

For anyone who wishes / intends to live AND work legally in Thailand for an extended period, citizenship makes that vastly easier than any of the other options currently available to foreigners. That said, if PR did away with the WP requirement, it would be a very attractive option. I had PR for quite a while before i decided to apply for citizenship.

 

However, your first point is the potential elephant in the room: "No need to give up your other citizenship unless you are citizen of a relatively small number of countries who require that."

 

Your country of birth may not require it, but it IS required by Thailand in the case of naturalised citizens. Just not enforced. The received wisdom is that it's all a cosy "nudge nudge, wink wink" set up where the Thai side know Person A will keep their original nationality but it is ignored. That has been the case for decades and may continue to be the case for decades. But any potential applicant for citizenship should be prepared to give up their birth nationality. 

 

[yankee99]

48 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

For anyone who wishes / intends to live AND work legally in Thailand for an extended period, citizenship makes that vastly easier than any of the other options currently available to foreigners. That said, if PR did away with the WP requirement, it would be a very attractive option. I had PR for quite a while before i decided to apply for citizenship.

 

However, your first point is the potential elephant in the room: "No need to give up your other citizenship unless you are citizen of a relatively small number of countries who require that."

 

Your country of birth may not require it, but it IS required by Thailand in the case of naturalised citizens. Just not enforced. The received wisdom is that it's all a cosy "nudge nudge, wink wink" set up where the Thai side know Person A will keep their original nationality but it is ignored. That has been the case for decades and may continue to be the case for decades. But any potential applicant for citizenship should be prepared to give up their birth nationality. 

 

Not required by thailand where is your source ?

[GarryP]

6 hours ago, lomtalay said:

Do you happen to know how to find out which health center serves your area?

The National Health Security Office website provides all the information you will need about this scheme and avenues to register. But you'll need to use the Thai language version as the English version is very limited in the information it provides. (https://www.nhso.go.th/home)

[lomtalay]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

The National Health Security Office website provides all the information you will need about this scheme and avenues to register. But you'll need to use the Thai language version as the English version is very limited in the information it provides. (https://www.nhso.go.th/home)

Thanks!

[BKKBike09]

21 hours ago, yankee99 said:

22 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

For anyone who wishes / intends to live AND work legally in Thailand for an extended period, citizenship makes that vastly easier than any of the other options currently available to foreigners. That said, if PR did away with the WP requirement, it would be a very attractive option. I had PR for quite a while before i decided to apply for citizenship.

 

However, your first point is the potential elephant in the room: "No need to give up your other citizenship unless you are citizen of a relatively small number of countries who require that."

 

Your country of birth may not require it, but it IS required by Thailand in the case of naturalised citizens. Just not enforced. The received wisdom is that it's all a cosy "nudge nudge, wink wink" set up where the Thai side know Person A will keep their original nationality but it is ignored. That has been the case for decades and may continue to be the case for decades. But any potential applicant for citizenship should be prepared to give up their birth nationality. 

 

Not required by thailand where is your source ?

 

The Nationality Act 1965 (and 2008 amendment)

 

"Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality ..."

 

Applicants are required to submit a statement of intent to renounce former nationality once Thai nationality is received and Special Branch tell applicants on several occasions that former nationality has to be given up. It may all be just for show but anyone who naturalizes absolutely does not want to be found using their "former nationality". Which is why e-gates are preferable to a passport check by a Thai I/O. "Flying direct to the US? But no visa in your Thai passport? Explain." 

 

 

 

 

 

[khongaeng]

11 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

The Nationality Act 1965 (and 2008 amendment)

 

"Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality ..."

 

Applicants are required to submit a statement of intent to renounce former nationality once Thai nationality is received and Special Branch tell applicants on several occasions that former nationality has to be given up. It may all be just for show but anyone who naturalizes absolutely does not want to be found using their "former nationality". Which is why e-gates are preferable to a passport check by a Thai I/O. "Flying direct to the US? But no visa in your Thai passport? Explain." 

 

 

 

 

 

This is absolutely true.  

 

However as a data point for those who are concerned, I have flown in and out of Thailand 30 times in the past 4 years.  I have only 2 stamps from another country in my passport.  I have multiple pages full of stamps out and in through Thai immigration because I always go through the manual stamping lines, in the BOI/Monk/Special Assistance area (they don't have auto machines in this area).  While coming into the country is just as fast to go through the Automated line as it is to go through the manual Thai stamping line, I have actually had a question on both of the 2 occasions when I went through the automated lines on the way out and when I came in through the manual stamping lines, they couldn't find the exit stamp.   They simply asked "did you go through the auto lanes on the way out" to which I replied "yes."  On the 60+ times I have been face to face with a Thai immigration official, they have never questioned me about why I don't have a stamp from another country or a visa from another country in my Thai passport.  

 

I hope that this never changes, otherwise I will have to go through the slow security lines to get to the automated immigration lines on the way out, and then use only the automated immigration lines coming in as you suggested.

[BKKBike09]

2 hours ago, khongaeng said:

This is absolutely true.  

 

However as a data point for those who are concerned, I have flown in and out of Thailand 30 times in the past 4 years.  I have only 2 stamps from another country in my passport.  I have multiple pages full of stamps out and in through Thai immigration because I always go through the manual stamping lines, in the BOI/Monk/Special Assistance area (they don't have auto machines in this area).  While coming into the country is just as fast to go through the Automated line as it is to go through the manual Thai stamping line, I have actually had a question on both of the 2 occasions when I went through the automated lines on the way out and when I came in through the manual stamping lines, they couldn't find the exit stamp.   They simply asked "did you go through the auto lanes on the way out" to which I replied "yes."  On the 60+ times I have been face to face with a Thai immigration official, they have never questioned me about why I don't have a stamp from another country or a visa from another country in my Thai passport.  

 

I hope that this never changes, otherwise I will have to go through the slow security lines to get to the automated immigration lines on the way out, and then use only the automated immigration lines coming in as you suggested.

 

Many thanks for the helpful insight. I've made a fair number of trips over the past 3 years and have (mostly) used the auto-channels. Coming back from the US a year or so back, via Taipei, the gates were out of action inbound. The I/O actually asked me if I had another passport so I simply said "Thai passport is good enough for me" or something like that. No further questions. 

 

I suspect things will never change but you never know ... what you don't want is to meet the Thai I/O who is having a bad day, possibly because some random foreigner has been rude to him/her

 

[Marcati]

On 6/20/2024 at 12:50 PM, onthemoon said:

 

Congratulations! How long did it take 1.) From your documents arriving at the MOI to the interview, and 2.) From the interview to yesterday? 

First part I can't remember, but from the interview until I got my ID card, slightly more than 2 years

[sidneybear]

On 6/24/2024 at 8:12 AM, BKKBike09 said:

 

The Nationality Act 1965 (and 2008 amendment)

 

"Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality ..."

 

Applicants are required to submit a statement of intent to renounce former nationality once Thai nationality is received and Special Branch tell applicants on several occasions that former nationality has to be given up. It may all be just for show but anyone who naturalizes absolutely does not want to be found using their "former nationality". Which is why e-gates are preferable to a passport check by a Thai I/O. "Flying direct to the US? But no visa in your Thai passport? Explain." 

 

 

Like others here, I've done dozens of trips in and out with no hassles. I do make a point of only using my Thai nationality in Thailand, and only using my Thai passport at the border. All my bank accounts and everything else I changed to my Thai ID. 

[onthemoon]

4 hours ago, Marcati said:

First part I can't remember, but from the interview until I got my ID card, slightly more than 2 years

That is extremely fast. So you applied only in 2022?

[onthemoon]

On 6/24/2024 at 8:12 AM, BKKBike09 said:

 

The Nationality Act 1965 (and 2008 amendment)

 

"Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality ..."

 

Applicants are required to submit a statement of intent to renounce former nationality once Thai nationality is received and Special Branch tell applicants on several occasions that former nationality has to be given up. It may all be just for show but anyone who naturalizes absolutely does not want to be found using their "former nationality". Which is why e-gates are preferable to a passport check by a Thai I/O. "Flying direct to the US? But no visa in your Thai passport? Explain." 

 

It's difficult to have a legal discussion with the translation of half a paragraph of the crucial (2). Can you post the full section 19 here, preferrably in Thai?

[lomtalay]

5 hours ago, Marcati said:

First part I can't remember, but from the interview until I got my ID card, slightly more than 2 years

Congratulations!

 

Can I please ask when was the last time in the process that you needed to show your work permit? I'm hoping to retire in a couple of years... Thanks!

[DrJoy]

21 minutes ago, lomtalay said:

Congratulations!

 

Can I please ask when was the last time in the process that you needed to show your work permit? I'm hoping to retire in a couple of years... Thanks!

They don't check WP at MOI interview, but I strongly suggest maintaining it as long as you can.

 

@Marcati was asked for WP at the oath ceremony, so you never know.

[DrJoy]

6 hours ago, Marcati said:

First part I can't remember, but from the interview until I got my ID card, slightly more than 2 years

What was the basis of your application, marriage or PR?

[lomtalay]

30 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

They don't check WP at MOI interview, but I strongly suggest maintaining it as long as you can.

 

@Marcati was asked for WP at the oath ceremony, so you never know.

Yes, I remember reading (with horror, given my circumstances) earlier on that someone (didn't realise it was Marcati) was asked for their WP at the oath ceremony. I'd be really interested in hearing if any others who've recently gone through the process had to produce a WP in the later stages.

[DrJoy]

15 minutes ago, lomtalay said:

Yes, I remember reading (with horror, given my circumstances) earlier on that someone (didn't realise it was Marcati) was asked for their WP at the oath ceremony. I'd be really interested in hearing if any others who've recently gone through the process had to produce a WP in the later stages.

When did u submit application at SB Police? Marriage or PR basis?

[sidneybear]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

 

It's difficult to have a legal discussion with the translation of half a paragraph of the crucial (2). Can you post the full section 19 here, preferrably in Thai?

If you dig around on Google for the Thai Nationality Act, you'll find a Thai language version. I read through once, and it's actually rather vague and no more helpful than the translation. There are, for example, no definitions on what "using your old nationality" means. Better play safe and not use it at all.

 

For those naturalised Thais who live abroad, there's also the worrying clause that naturalised Thai nationality can be revoked if a total of 5 years are spent overseas. The clause makes mention that the five years is a accumulation of all tge overseas time, rather than a single 5 year stretch. There's no evidence of this being enforced, so far.

[onthemoon]

16 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

If you dig around on Google for the Thai Nationality Act, you'll find a Thai language version. I read through once, and it's actually rather vague and no more helpful than the translation. There are, for example, no definitions on what "using your old nationality" means. Better play safe and not use it at all.

 

For those naturalised Thais who live abroad, there's also the worrying clause that naturalised Thai nationality can be revoked if a total of 5 years are spent overseas. The clause makes mention that the five years is a accumulation of all tge overseas time, rather than a single 5 year stretch. There's no evidence of this being enforced, so far.

 

Thanks, this was exactly what I expected. It is rather vague and there is no definition. Any panic is baseless.

[BKKBike09]

16 hours ago, onthemoon said:

It's difficult to have a legal discussion with the translation of half a paragraph of the crucial (2). Can you post the full section 19 here, preferrably in Thai?

 

You asked ...

 

https://www.bora.dopa.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/nationality.pdf

 

This is from a riveting DOPA review of nationality legislation. 

 

 

[lomtalay]

16 hours ago, DrJoy said:

When did u submit application at SB Police? Marriage or PR basis?

I applied on the basis of marriage. SB interview April 2023, NIA interview August 2023, SB sent the documents to DOPA October 2023.

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

You asked ...

 

https://www.bora.dopa.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/nationality.pdf

 

This is from a riveting DOPA review of nationality legislation. 

 

Thanks. So, the Minister has the power to revoke the citizenship if there is proof that the naturalised citizen still uses the former nationality. Hm, so now it goes from the letter of the law to the interpretations, the past practice or any court cases. I was hoping it says "uses the former nationality in Thailand", as this seems to be the actual practice. They don't care whether you use it outside of Thailand.

[BKKBike09]

14 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

Thanks. So, the Minister has the power to revoke the citizenship if there is proof that the naturalised citizen still uses the former nationality. Hm, so now it goes from the letter of the law to the interpretations, the past practice or any court cases. I was hoping it says "uses the former nationality in Thailand", as this seems to be the actual practice. They don't care whether you use it outside of Thailand.

 

I'm sure the chance of having a problem is remote in the extreme. But it does exist, especially because it is a matter of interpretation.

 

There is a difference between 'have' and 'use' - one could argue that just keeping your original nationality is not 'use', and the Act makes that distinction in Section 19 (2) - ยังใช่ (still uses) and (6) - ยังคงมี (still retains).

[DrJoy]

12 hours ago, lomtalay said:

I applied on the basis of marriage. SB interview April 2023, NIA interview August 2023, SB sent the documents to DOPA October 2023.

2020 candidates are still waiting, you are way too new.

 

There is an extreme backlog in MOI interviews

[lomtalay]

3 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

2020 candidates are still waiting, you are way too new.

 

There is an extreme backlog in MOI interviews

Yes, I realise this. 

 

My point is that before Marcati mentioned that he needed to produce his WP at the oath ceremony, the majority of people had confirmed (as you yourself mentioned) that they didn't need to show their WP at the DOPA interview or after.

 

If showing a WP at the oath ceremony is now the standard official requirement, this significantly alters the amount of time that I need to maintain my WP, regardless of when my files were submitted to the MOI. 

 

Before Marcati's post about the oath ceremony, I made a post here asking other people when they last had to show their WP and at least one guy replied that it was early on and he was nervous when he had his MOI interview as he no longer had a WP (he got away with it, fortunately).

 

Therefore, I'm very keen to find out when other successful candidates were required to show their WPs in order to get a better understanding of whether Marcati's situation was an exception or the new rule. If any posters gain citizenship this year or next, I'd be really interested to know as it drastically changes the timeline.

[yankee99]

23 minutes ago, lomtalay said:

Yes, I realise this. 

 

My point is that before Marcati mentioned that he needed to produce his WP at the oath ceremony, the majority of people had confirmed (as you yourself mentioned) that they didn't need to show their WP at the DOPA interview or after.

 

If showing a WP at the oath ceremony is now the standard official requirement, this significantly alters the amount of time that I need to maintain my WP, regardless of when my files were submitted to the MOI. 

 

Before Marcati's post about the oath ceremony, I made a post here asking other people when they last had to show their WP and at least one guy replied that it was early on and he was nervous when he had his MOI interview as he no longer had a WP (he got away with it, fortunately).

 

Therefore, I'm very keen to find out when other successful candidates were required to show their WPs in order to get a better understanding of whether Marcati's situation was an exception or the new rule. If any posters gain citizenship this year or next, I'd be really interested to know as it drastically changes the timeline.

maybe it depends on where your oath ceremony is.

[DrJoy]

53 minutes ago, lomtalay said:

If showing a WP at the oath ceremony is now the standard official requirement

Its written in the Nationality act that "the candidate must have an occupation"

So it depends on how the officer of the day interprets it.

 

My friend who naturalized in 2020 was asked for WP at his District Office (Bangrak) before they could issue his ID card.

 

So nothing is set in stone.

 

If you, by any chance loose your WP/retire, I would suggest not to mention of it, when asked for.

Edited July 2 by DrJoy

[lomtalay]

10 hours ago, yankee99 said:

maybe it depends on where your oath ceremony is.

Yes, good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

The more information we get from emerging successful candidates from now on, the more we might learn.