J & J may halt vaccine.

[Scott]

US agencies recommend ‘pause’ in use of Johnson & Johnson vaccine over blood clot fears

US health authorities recommended a “pause” Tuesday in the use of the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine “out of an abundance of caution” over potential links to a rare type of blood clot, in a blow to the country’s immunization campaign.

 

The disorder appears similar to that observed in rare cases of people who received the AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe — and the shots by both companies are based on adenovirus vector technology.

 

The US Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control are assessing the “potential significance” of six reported cases of a type of clot in the brain called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in combination with low levels of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia).

 

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/us-agencies-recommend-pause-in-use-of-johnson-johnson-vaccine-over-blood-clot-fears/

[Jeffr2]

My friends were suppose to get one in a few days.  That was just halted.  Sucks.

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/13/politics/white-house-johnson-and-johnson/index.html

 

White House scrambles to reassure public after pause on Johnson & Johnson's vaccine

[mtls2005]

That's a bummer.

 

And, of course, it's one of just three vaccines currently approved by the Thai FDA*.

 

 

* Hopefully private hospitals here didn't order this vaccine.

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

That's a bummer.

 

And, of course, it's one of just three vaccines currently approved by the Thai FDA*.

 

 

* Hopefully private hospitals here didn't order this vaccine.

With all the reported issues with the AZ vaccine, it's looking like the mRNA technology of Pfizer and Moderna seem to be the way to go.

 

I would have to say it would make me more than a little skeptical about any of the China vaccines that use the same inactivated virus technology, especially given the lack of transparency and no stage 3 test results.

[partington]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

With all the reported issues with the AZ vaccine, it's looking like the mRNA technology of Pfizer and Moderna seem to be the way to go.

 

I would have to say it would make me more than a little skeptical about any of the China vaccines that use the same inactivated virus technology, especially given the lack of transparency and no stage 3 test results.

You're mistaken: the AZ vaccine does not use the "same inactivated virus technology" as the Chinese vaccine Sinovac. They are completely different principles. 

 

The Chinese vaccine is simply the actual Covid-19 virus grown in large quantities, then chemically treated to deactivate it. It is then injected to induce an immune response, and as it is inactive it cannot replicate and cause the disease - this is the traditional way to make vaccines. Results of a phase 3 trial of this vaccine in Brazil were published online last week, though are not yet peer-reviewed.

 

The AZ vaccine is completely different - it is a  live but replication deficient adenovirus (completely different from and unrelated to the Covid virus) that contains the part of the genetic code of the Covid-19 virus that codes for the Covid-19 virus spike protein. When injected, this active adenovirus can infect cells and cause them to produce the spike protein by hijacking the cells' protein synthesising machinery.  The body then mounts an immune response to the released spike protein. The adenovirus, though active, cannot replicate so is eventually eliminated from the body.

 

It seems that the clotting disorders are caused in 4 or 5 out of a million people who respond to the vaccine unusually - by making antibodies to platelets which then attack the clotting system. No-one knows why this happens, and it isn't clear whether the adenovirus part of the vaccine or the spike protein it produces triggers this abnormal response.

 

If it were the spike protein though, one would expect this side effect to be observed with the mRNA vaccines too, as these also work by causing cells to make spike protein. 

[CharlieH]

Reported post with link to dubious source and response removed.

[meechai]

Here in the USA..... "Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) "

Quote

Over 189 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 12, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,005 reports of death (0.00158%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

That was from the CDC website....I trust they are not considered dubious? ????

 

What I was saying earlier is I thought it odd that J&J was pulled/halted that quickly given other vaccines record

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, meechai said:

Here in the USA..... "Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) "

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

That was from the CDC website....I trust they are not considered dubious? ????

 

What I was saying earlier is I thought it odd that J&J was pulled/halted that quickly given other vaccines record

Better that the other link you put up.  Which contained fake information.

 

Looks like the jabs are pretty good and definitely safe.

 

From your link:

Over 189 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 12, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,005 reports of death (0.00158%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

[meechai]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:40 PM, Jeffr2 said:

A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths.

ok so they are saying 3005 vaccinated dead but cannot say for sure vaccination had a hand in it .....ok ....big coincidence fine...

Like the Thai monk who 2 hours after vaccination dies...not related...rest of monks in ER...not related ok fine

 

My original post was questioning why they have 3005 coincidences but not halted

 

Yet J&J 6  & halted?

 

Not a question thanks just a wondering Q....Not anti Vax....have many here had the J&J no side effects so was curious is all

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, meechai said:

ok so they are saying 3005 vaccinated dead but cannot say for sure vaccination had a hand in it .....ok ....big coincidence fine...

 

 

3005 is the total number of deaths from all causes (including accidents) occurrring among the 189 million people in the US who have received a COVID vaccine.

 

It is no higher than the number of deaths that occur in that number of people of similar age who are not vaccinated.

 

It is not expected that the vaccine will confer immortality. And certainly not the case that everything that happens to someone after being vaccinated must be due to the vaccine.

 

There are very clear scientific methods for determining whether  an event is likely to be related to a medication or vaccien received.

 

 

[Dragonboat Ronin]

On 4/14/2021 at 4:41 AM, partington said:

You're mistaken: the AZ vaccine does not use the "same inactivated virus technology" as the Chinese vaccine Sinovac. They are completely different principles. 

 

The Chinese vaccine is simply the actual Covid-19 virus grown in large quantities, then chemically treated to deactivate it. It is then injected to induce an immune response, and as it is inactive it cannot replicate and cause the disease - this is the traditional way to make vaccines. Results of a phase 3 trial of this vaccine in Brazil were published online last week, though are not yet peer-reviewed.

 

The AZ vaccine is completely different - it is a  live but replication deficient adenovirus (completely different from and unrelated to the Covid virus) that contains the part of the genetic code of the Covid-19 virus that codes for the Covid-19 virus spike protein. When injected, this active adenovirus can infect cells and cause them to produce the spike protein by hijacking the cells' protein synthesising machinery.  The body then mounts an immune response to the released spike protein. The adenovirus, though active, cannot replicate so is eventually eliminated from the body.

 

It seems that the clotting disorders are caused in 4 or 5 out of a million people who respond to the vaccine unusually - by making antibodies to platelets which then attack the clotting system. No-one knows why this happens, and it isn't clear whether the adenovirus part of the vaccine or the spike protein it produces triggers this abnormal response.

 

If it were the spike protein though, one would expect this side effect to be observed with the mRNA vaccines too, as these also work by causing cells to make spike protein. 

Partington great thanks for your knowledgeable reply here and on other posts i've seen. Based on what you are saying, does it mean that while the AZ vaccine significantly differs from Sinovac, it also significantly differs from the mRNA vaccines? I am asking because i'm having difficulty finding data on the long-term effects of early trials of mRNA vaccines with the original SARS virus. My understanding is that there were trials done with mRNA vaccines on certain primates back in the early 2000s when the original SARS pandemic hit, and that these mRNA trials may have produced side-effects several years later, though i can't verify this information. If the info is legit, this might make the Pfizer/Moderna/mRNA vaccines less appearling than AZ or J&J even though Pfizer/Moderna currently hold the media spotlight as being the top choices. My understanding is also that AZ and J&J are currently being scrutinized solely based on a very small handful of adverse reactions out of a vastly large number of vaccinations given, but again please tell me if i am wrong. Your info and expertise on this is greatly appreciated if you have the time to give it. 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, Dragonboat Ronin said:

Partington great thanks for your knowledgeable reply here and on other posts i've seen. Based on what you are saying, does it mean that while the AZ vaccine significantly differs from Sinovac, it also significantly differs from the mRNA vaccines? I am asking because i'm having difficulty finding data on the long-term effects of early trials of mRNA vaccines with the original SARS virus. My understanding is that there were trials done with mRNA vaccines on certain primates back in the early 2000s when the original SARS pandemic hit, and that these mRNA trials may have produced side-effects several years later, though i can't verify this information. If the info is legit, this might make the Pfizer/Moderna/mRNA vaccines less appearling than AZ or J&J even though Pfizer/Moderna currently hold the media spotlight as being the top choices. My understanding is also that AZ and J&J are currently being scrutinized solely based on a very small handful of adverse reactions out of a vastly large number of vaccinations given, but again please tell me if i am wrong. Your info and expertise on this is greatly appreciated if you have the time to give it. 

A great video to watch regarding mRNA vaccines.

 

[partington]

14 hours ago, Dragonboat Ronin said:

Partington great thanks for your knowledgeable reply here and on other posts i've seen. Based on what you are saying, does it mean that while the AZ vaccine significantly differs from Sinovac, it also significantly differs from the mRNA vaccines? I am asking because i'm having difficulty finding data on the long-term effects of early trials of mRNA vaccines with the original SARS virus. My understanding is that there were trials done with mRNA vaccines on certain primates back in the early 2000s when the original SARS pandemic hit, and that these mRNA trials may have produced side-effects several years later, though i can't verify this information. If the info is legit, this might make the Pfizer/Moderna/mRNA vaccines less appearling than AZ or J&J even though Pfizer/Moderna currently hold the media spotlight as being the top choices. My understanding is also that AZ and J&J are currently being scrutinized solely based on a very small handful of adverse reactions out of a vastly large number of vaccinations given, but again please tell me if i am wrong. Your info and expertise on this is greatly appreciated if you have the time to give it. 

 

 

The AZ vaccine does differ significantly from the mRNA vaccines, since the mRNA vaccines do not rely on any sort of virus vector to work.   The AZ vaccine relies on a virus entering a cell, then using the cells' machinery to make the code for the spike protein (mRNA), which the cells then translate into protein.

 

The mRNA vaccines are themselves the actual code for making the spike protein which is injected directly.

 

I think your information on previous mRNA vaccines against the first SARS virus outbreak is almost certainly incorrect.  While not being any sort of expert, a quick scan shows there aren't any published papers on any mRNA vaccine being developed for the first SARS outbreak.  Furthermore this SARS outbreak (2003)  occurred many years earlier than any published trial of any mRNA vaccines against any disease at all.

 

 It's also virtually certain that if harmful side effects attributable to an mRNA vaccine had been observed to occur many years after vaccination this would be the subject of active research and discussion, and would be mentioned in the introduction to every paper on mRNA vaccine development ever published as a major problem. So I'm very doubtful about this.

 

The clotting problems associated with the AZ and JJ vaccines are a tiny number, 4 or 5 per million, but the constellation of symptoms  are so unusual that causation is suspected. Most, if not all, the sufferers have been found to have developed an antibody to one of their own proteins, PF4, so an immune response is a probable cause.

[Dragonboat Ronin]

5 hours ago, partington said:

..I think your information on previous mRNA vaccines against the first SARS virus outbreak is almost certainly incorrect...

Many thanks for your reply. I sure hope the info i have on previous mRNA vaccines is incorrect actually. It was primarily in response to another commenter who mentioned with confidence that mRNA vaccines tested in animals on the original 2003 SARS virus began to show side effects several years after. I also was unable to find anything to verify this in my own research; hence decided to reach out to you when i saw your posts on this subject. To note, before i spoke to you i also tried to reach the original commenter but have not received reply. Here is a direct quote from his/her statement which inspired my curiosity:

 

"Remember in 2003 when mRNA vaccines were used on Monkeys for SARS? I think results showed up 3 years later...So yeah....just surprising so many have such blind faith in something with such a short/non-existent track record"

 

My suspicion is this information is sensationalized or likely from non-scientific/rumor based sources. Still the confidence with which it was presented in conjunction with my own very limited knowledge on the subject was enough to warrant investigation. If you yourself have any links to scientific reports/data on the long-term effectiveness/side effects of mRNA vaccines, i (and i suspect other readers here) would be obliged if you can share what you know. Salutes.

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/23/health/johnson-vaccine-acip-recommendation/index.html

 

CDC, FDA lift pause on using J&J's coronavirus vaccine, add safety warning

[meechai]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/23/health/johnson-vaccine-acip-recommendation/index.html

 

CDC, FDA lift pause on using J&J's coronavirus vaccine, add safety warning

 

I think that is good news & as I said know many that have taken the J&J vac without incidence.

A few of them older ladies (over 60)

 

My wife & I live in a rural area without any covid cases so at this time are just watching results

But I like the J&J because of how it works & also seems the Novavax ( a protein adjuvant vaccine) has promise

 

I read a nice comparison here on Yale Medicine

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

 

 

[mtls2005]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

CDC, FDA lift pause on using J&J's coronavirus vaccine, add safety warning

 

Now if they can just find someplace that can manufacture it.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Now if they can just find someplace that can manufacture it.

 

 

Yeah.  Read they found more problems at that plant in the US.  Ugh.